AEC streams

[burkecross]

Hey,

Just got my verbal offer for AEC today, and I'm wondering subjectively from anyone whose done AEC and possibly more than one of the streams for IFR, VFR, or Weapons; which you would say was the most interesting, busiest, most enjoyable. Just looking for subjective opinions.

Thanks.

 

[MikeL]

Have you read these threads?

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/68933.0.html

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/77404.0.html

 

[burkecross]

I have read just about all AEC related threads on this site and done a good deal of research into it. However those threads don't really directly relate to my question, since the first is mostly a pissing match between AEC and ANAV. And the latter just... well it's numbers which I have the most current version of. Thanks for checking but I'm really just hoping to get opinions of current or prior AEC's before I need to select what i'll be doing.

Cheers.

 

[Aerospaced_out]

Your question reminds me of a appropriate non response. Depends on what your definition of "is" is.

Kidding aside... they are all interesting, busy at times and enjoyable or we wouldn't be doing them. I doubt those kinds of responses will help you much though. However, you asked a question looking for subjective answers without giving any context. It makes it hard to respond with anything but platitudes. With that said I'll try to answer from a particular perspective... that of the mental challenges: IFR speaks to more my analytical side while VFR my creative. Don't get me wrong though, you won't be able to do either without both sides of your brain WPNS is no different. All three jobs require similar aptitudes and skills, hence the occupational structuring into one group. As such people that have the right set of skills and aptitudes tend to enjoy all three even if they do have a preference for one. The reasons for the preference are as varied as the people that hold them.... I like to see out the window when I work (tower); I like to get paid to play video games (ostensibly radar); I like to fly (AWACS); etc.

I think you see my point. I have no idea if this is the kind of answer for which you are looking. If not, perhaps if you re-frame the question and add in some context you'd get something more focused.

 

[take2]

Thanks Aerospaced.  Not sure if that helps burkecross, but your comments give me another way of looking at the choice of streams ahead of me.  I'll take analytical video games, please, with a dash of creative 

 

[Cajun]

This seemed as logical a place as any for my questions...

Are there any AECs (or those in the training system at the moment) who can comment on the likelihood of new AEC recruits being able to select which stream (ATC/AWC) they want to go for? Of course, I understand the usual caveats of the needs of the CF coming first. Specifically I'm wondering about the current state of affairs, and any possible predictions for the next year or so on the matter. Basically, are AEC recruits getting their first choice these days?

Secondly, are the number of opportunities for AEC's really as numerous as the recruiting pamphlets would lead one to believe? Or are these postings (AWACS, space & missile warning, TACP) few and far between?

Cheers

 

[Grando]

If it's like it has been for the last few years, nearly all students have gotten their choice between ATC/AW (disclaimer: VFR vs IFR preferences within ATC are a little more restrictive).

In the AW side, the opportunities that you seek are indeed quite plentiful.  Weapons Controllers love the variation they are afforded.  In the ATC side, although they still exist, these types of postings are much more scarce (and, as such, more competitive).

 

[Cajun]

That's great, much appreciated.

 

[TimBit]

Well, as of right now, and from the mouth of the BTL Manager, the trade is and will remain closed. AW is full. ATC still needs people. Sorry to break it to ya... it was bad for me too.

 

[Cajun]

Oh no worries. I think I'd be happy doing either. Lord knows I have a ways to go before any of those choices come up anyway. I appreciate the heads up though.

 

[Grando]

Yeah, the next Weapons course has been zero-loaded...

 

[Cajun]

How often do they run the courses? Do you think this will be a trend for the foreseeable future?

 

[Aerospaced_out]

An unsual convergence occured this last year that has put the occupation in a odd osition of having to turn people away. After a decade of falling short of recruitment goals and attrition exceeding intake everthing reversed suddenly and dramaticly without real notice. Attrition dropped significantly despite the demographic analysis saying it wouldn't and recruiting achieved full intake. This has meant that a receovery plan that was to take five years was completed in less than three. Great for the occupation, not so great for those in the training system and especially for those want to get into the occupation. The result is a large backlog of trainees that will take at least a year to clear. As such intake has been reduced dramatically and production at the school has shifted to meet residual demand (as noted... in ATC).

For those in the system the health of the occupation is actually very good news as it will allow us to take on more interesting challenges more often. These opportunities will ensure AEC, both weapons and traffic, have options to keep them interested.

 

[Cajun]

Thanks for the input A_O. Is it at all common for those trained in Wpns to move to the Traffic side of the house (and vice versa) throughout an AEC career?

 

[Aerospaced_out]

Common? ... no.
Unusual? ... no.

There are a rare few that have all three (AWC, IFR, VFR).

 

[Cajun]

In the AW side, the opportunities that you seek are indeed quite plentiful.  Weapons Controllers love the variation they are afforded.  In the ATC side, although they still exist, these types of postings are much more scarce (and, as such, more competitive).

Can you (or any other AEC's) comment any further on what types of postings/opportunities are available to ATC folks, as mentioned above? There seems to be a lot of info available on what the AWC side of the house can see and do but not much on what's available in terms of non-conventional (i.e., OUTCAN, space & missile, or anything else that falls outside of the usual roles) for IFR & VFR controllers, if such postings do exist.

 

[Aerospaced_out]

ATC doesn't have something like dedicated slots with NORAD or AWACS to draw it OUTCAN.

TACP, Space and Missile Command postings, however, are generally not AWC specific. For ATCs, after a couple of operational type postings, usually move onto staff or training positions throughout the CF and abroad. Mind you these are generally not stream specific either. You will find that ATC deploy operationally into theatre more often than AWC especially if you discount AWACS (this info is a bit dated but I've seen nothing to indicate the trend has changed). This disparity is likely to increase as Canada moves from a combat to a training role in Afg.

All said and done, if your desire is to get OUTCAN to the US or Germany then AWC is the route to take. If you are looking for diversity of employment I don't think that is actually an issue for ATC. AECs in are quite in demand for their particular skill sets.

 

[originaldub]

Talking more to the new entry in the AEC streams (I am Weapons)

You will be posted out of BMOQ to an airbase. From there you will do a Distance Learning course that is not stream-specific. Then you are off to CFSACO to train in your specific stream IFR/VFR/Weapons. Upon passing CFSACO you will:

IFR/VFR - Be posted to a unit for a checkout phase
Weapons - Phase 4 in 51 Sqn

IFR/VFR can be posted to any of the Wings for their checkout and are posted to that Wing.
Weapons will receive their first posting after 51 Sqn and can be posted to the NORAD Sectors (CANR, WADS, EADS, ANR) or the Tac Radars (42Rdr, 12Rdr), and rarely to the AWACS in either ANR or Tinker. Don't expect anything else for a first post, but nothing is beyond possibility. Hope that helps!

 

[OkanaganHeat]

This certainly has been an enlightening thread to read and want to thank the current AEC members for their insight into the occupation.

From another thread there was mention of positions within AEC that have members posted to army locations, such as Pet, Edmonton, Valcartier, and Gagetown. The positions mentioned were SATCO's, G3 Air, FAC.

My question with regards to this information is, are these positions AWC, ATC or both?

I know that these positions are for seasoned AEC personnel and am just wanting to gain a better understanding of what can be expected within AEC during a career.

 

[Cajun]

Yes, great information, thanks to all who have contributed.

From another thread there was mention of positions within AEC that have members posted to army locations, such as Pet, Edmonton, Valcartier, and Gagetown. The positions mentioned were SATCO's, G3 Air, FAC.

My question with regards to this information is, are these positions AWC, ATC or both?

Funny, that was going to be my next question.