Advice For Former NCM's Taking CAP

[Darth_Hamel]

I just crossed over to the dark side after spending about 2 years as an ncm jimmy, and this summer I'm doing CAP. I am looking for advice from anyone who has gone through CAP with ncm experience or been an instructor.

Beyond general advice could someone tell me:

- should I bring any Gucci kit like camelback's, smallpack etc for the field ex, or is that more trouble than its worth?
- how hard do I try to hide my previous experience?
         - normally I would say as much as possible, but I've heard that since CAP is a leadership course you want to stand              out somewhat; but I know that going around with a "listen to me I've done this before" attitude is a guaranteed              way to get RF'd by your staff
- do I remove my capbadge for the cornflake?
- are there any differences b/w making a good impression on CAP vs. SQ.... where lets face it your goal is to be the grey man

Any help would be great.

"never forget that you weapon was made by the lowest bidder" Murphy

 

[Quag]

The only thing I can help you with is that Regular Force Officer Cadets wear their cornflakes for their training (IAP/BOTP).  I remeber during IAP some former NCM wore their capbadges and were told at the end of the course that they HAD to wear the cornflake for the remainder of their training.  Hope that answers one of your questions.

 

[Zoomie]

Don't wear your cornflake - are you still at the recruit school.  Once IAP/BMQ/BOTP/BOTC/Whatever qualified, you never wear that thing again.  Infantry officer's wear the Infantry capbadge, with the Armour guys wearing the Armoured Fist - figure out what a Jimmy would wear, probably the dude with lighting bolts.

Help your course mates - stand out if you like - the staff are going to know that you have experience.

 

[Quag]

Zoomie,

Where do you get the Armoured Fist cap badge, or any trade badge not unit specific?

 

[HItorMiss]

Sorry for the thread Hijack....

Ok I'm curious, as I recently have been putting some thought into crossing over to the dark side only after I get one more thing off my list of career goals... (thanks Journey for instilling your sense of career ADD  )

I earned my RCR capbadge, I worked hard to put that on my Beret, how can they order me to take it down without dismissing me from the Regiment, that would be like ordering me to take my crossed rifles down, or my Recce badge, or someones jump wings or saying I can't wear my medals, we earned all these badges didn't we?....

It doesn't make sense, maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way, maybe it's covered in the CFAO's or the QR&O's and I just haven't found it.

*Edited for spelling*

 

[chaos75]

As someone who has gone through this process I can tell you as far as cap badges go, you wear the cap badge of whatever branch you belong to, or regiment if youve already been assigned to one.  As for how to act on course, just remember that the course is still PhII Officer training, so you will be getting all the usual recruit treatment infantry school style, so conduct yourself accordingly while on course (my advise is to play the game, be a team player, let your experience reflect in how you conduct yourself).  If you have any specific questions and want to pick my brain, feel free to send me a message.

 

[vonGarvin]

I cannot leave this thread alone
I was a MCpl when accepted for UTPNCM oh so many years ago.  Though Small Arms qualified, and merited high enough for promotion, I still had to go through all levels of training for a non-RMC officer cadet (BOTC 1 and 2, Second Language, Phases II, III and IV).  My advice for anyone with experience is to showcase that experience, but beware: not of the staff but of fellow candidates over-using you for advice, etc.  Even though you've "done it all", its still stressful in its own right, and having the burden of others seeking your advice, etc, can sometimes bring you down.
As for Capbadges: I too had the eight-pointed star proudly displayed on my beret as an NCM.  Then I was badged as OCdt by the Regt Major and the Commander, Home Station (The RCR).  I kept that on for BOTC 1 and 2 and Second Language, but it was replaced by the Corps Capbadge for Phases II and III.  Then, as was the way at the time, was "allowed" to again display my Regiment's Capbadge following Phase III (You get "badged" following DP 1.2 now).  For Phase IV (Now known as "DP 1.2"), all candidates have the Corps Badge, as far as I can tell.  CFR's may have their Regimental badges up: not too sure.

 

[Wookilar]

There are elements at CFLRS that want ALL personell undergoing training there to wear the cornflake until they are Ph III.

For UTPNCM (currently), this is not so. Especially those that have not switched trades (or regiments).

We are entitled to wear the trade badge of the trade we are going into. I'm going to have to check on the actual authority for it (and post it when I find it). This was a very large issue last summer when a number of UT's (but not all) were forced to remove their cap badges and replace them with the cornflake. Once we got to RMC, that got straightened out (we think). Now, heading back to CFLRS for BOTP, a few select members have paper work in hand authorizing what they have on their head dress.

As we were told by our CoC here, CFLRS is authorized to grant the wearing of the cornflake. That is something entirely different from having the authority to order an MP to take down his T-bird and get rid of his red beret (MP to MPO). Only those particular trades are authorized to do so.

Now, to just find that on paper again. Check CFAO 9-13. It's the one that guides the UTPNCM program and has not yet been superseeded by a DAOD. Just checked, no dress regs there other than "according to CF regulations." The CFAO is still valid though, for those interested.

 

[Scants]

All right, here it is:
After being accepted for UTP, you continue to wear the NCM hatbadge until done up to OCdt. Upon promotion to OCdt, you change rank badges, DEU (if applicable), and are put up the cornflake until completion of IAP, BOTP, and SLT. Corps hatbadges may be worn at the discretion of the MOC trg school Cmdt. Dental and Medical officers put up their distinctive hatbadges after the completion of IAP. 
Now, this is how it is supposed to work. I used the term "supposed" because the only change I made after getting my OCdt rank was to switch from the NCM to the officer hatbadge of my regt. My MPRR said my regt affiliation was still RCD so RCD it would stay. I have gotten absolutely no grief from anyone about my hatbadge.

"Well I heard...", "A buddy told me...", and "It was like this on my course so that is the way it is.." does not make it so. The info in the first paragraph is from the student guide as it sits in front of me while the info in para 2 is based only on my experience. 

Tim

 

[ProPatria05]

Darth

Apologies, I know you're looking for comments from CFRs/UTPs, but I have to give you my 2 cents from the DEO side of the house (what I observed going through Phase training from the CFRs/UTPs I trained with). The cap badge questions seem answered, so I'll stick to the whole coursemanship issue.

To echo (and further) some of the comments made here, your staff will know your background, so it's virtually impossible to be the greyman. Fellow candidates will also pick up on this, as they will pick up on the fact that you know what you're doing - you can't hide it.  So the staff will be looking for you to display teamwork by helping out your fellow candidates, and you will be a GOLDMINE for them by showing them the best/easiest/proper way of doing things. However, depending on your coursemates' maturity and drive levels, they may be tempted to let you and others like you take charge of everything, thus allowing them an easier ride and less responsibility. You will be doing yourself and them a disservice, and the staff will come on to both you and them for it. So you need to figure out how to teach them to fish instead of catching all the fish for them, to twist an old expression.

Having said that, approach is everything. You're right - even though you know the right way to do things, the other guys won't. So even if they're RTFO'er, just sit back a chuckle a bit to yourself, and politely steer them in the right direction. You'll probably want to lose it at times, but restraint is key  .

Best of luck.