Active Shooter / Hostile Event ( ASHE ) prevention / response

[KevinB]

THAT was my next question. Do the various LEOs - and I am going to assume the big ones do - recce the target area prior to the actual arrest?

​

Never assume anything WRT Fed TF’s. Some LEA’s want nothing to do with them. So inter agency support is never a guarantee.

As well sometimes the areas the targets are in are pretty sketchy for LE presence. Either due to the remoteness (areas of AZ, NM, etc) which can have compounds of hostile actors (think Mexican cartel, MS-13 etc), or due to the urban density (NY apartment complex etc).

Furthermore Marshalls don’t need a search warrant - with an arrest warrant it’s been deemed that any location that the suspect has ever slept at is covered under the arrest warrant - so sometimes you will need to check a number of places to find the person. Even with really switched on teams sometimes it just isn’t possible to get surveillance assets in before conducting a hit.

I suspect this event will have a number of repercussions, and the USMS will again reevaluate their TTP’s and both the USMS and other LEA will examine their MOU’s and how the business is conducted.

The USMS SOG has a very good relationship with some JSOC entities, and had been reforming their operations on both the surveillance side and tactical side when I left the Team.

By and large the USMS as an organization is fantastic at finding people. A lot of their experience got pushed to the Mil side for GWOT. The tactical side in SOG was solid (except for concerns over DD’s and explosive entry) but the average Marshall isn’t a gun fighter, they did start up a gun fighter school several years ago - as the USMS gets into a lot of them.

 

[Booter]

THAT was my next question. Do the various LEOs - and I am going to assume the big ones do - recce the target area prior to the actual arrest?

​

Depends on the team.
Even in Canada. There are cowboy teams with five days of training even here where they push and pray.

Then outside of tactical you have your quasi tactical investigative teams that do even less training and planning on incredibly high risk stuff- that said over time it is becoming less and less as there is more access to extra expertise and teams.

So…”depends”

 

[KevinB]

Depends on the team.
Even in Canada. There are cowboy teams with five days of training even here where they push and pray.

Then outside of tactical you have your quasi tactical investigative teams that do even less training and planning on incredibly high risk stuff- that said over time it is becoming less and less as there is more access to extra expertise and teams.

So…”depends”

Several cities down here now mandate their Tac teams do all warrant services. Mainly because it keeps plainclothes (mostly Narcotics) officers out of raids. It’s hard to argue that a uniformed tactical team isn’t a LE entity - while plainclothes officers can be mistaken for rival gangs (or at least claimed that). It also keeps tactical operations inside a specific operational structure.

Vegas Metro was the first I’m aware doing that - and the int briefs to SWAT are really well done by the detectives, and they stay on scene to ID and process the scene after it is secure, and SWAT moves on to the next warrant while those detectives deal with it.

Like the Military, there just isn’t time enough in the day for LEO’s to be proficient at all tasks, and so it makes sense to have specific sub units that are focused on certain missions while others do different things.

The saying their are Old Pilots and Bold Pilots, not no Old Bold Pilots is equally correct in the LE world. Cowboy mentality just gets people hurt or killed, who usually didn’t need to be.

 

[lenaitch]

Depends on the team.
Even in Canada. There are cowboy teams with five days of training even here where they push and pray.

Then outside of tactical you have your quasi tactical investigative teams that do even less training and planning on incredibly high risk stuff- that said over time it is becoming less and less as there is more access to extra expertise and teams.

So…”depends”

A town near where we used to live had a small municipal service (no longer). They sent one member off to a containment course then proudly told their Police Service Board that they now had a containment team. The Board, being local non-police folk, were quite pleased that their little department was right up there with the 'big boys'. Sigh.

There is enough risk walking up to doors and cars on a routine basis, let alone when a high risk is known or at least reasonably anticipated. I don't know the SOP now but I get the sense that any warrant or entry that is deemed high risk in the OPP now involves a tactical unit.

Toronto will now be going through some protocol soul searching after one their members was run down and killed while attempting enforcement action while in old clothes.

 

[dapaterson]

Toronto will now be going through some protocol soul searching after one their members was run down and killed while attempting enforcement action while in old clothes.

After three officers testified to something contradicted by the video evidence, TPS has some other significant issues, as does the Crown that proceeded with that charge.

Toronto tax payers will be justifiably upset.

 

[lenaitch]

After three officers testified to something contradicted by the video evidence, TPS has some other significant issues, as does the Crown that proceeded with that charge.

Toronto tax payers will be justifiably upset.

No doubt. I didn't follow the media that closely but it seems that the judge spent much of the trial with raised eyebrow. It seems members preparing notes collectively in a room has downsides.

 

[brihard]

Wow. The former chief of police of the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District police, as well as a police officer who was on scene at Uvalde during the shooting, have both been arrested and criminally charged with multiple counts of child endangerment related to the massively failed police response in the 2022 school shooting.

Criminal charges against police for this sort of manifest failure are incredibly rare. Without having read the indictment, I lean towards saying it’s probably warranted given how egregious that case was.

Former Uvalde school police officials face charges 2 years after Robb Elementary School shooting

The charges come more than two years after a teenage gunman killed 19 students and two teachers at Robb Elementary School.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . . Without having read the indictment, I lean towards saying it’s probably warranted given how egregious that case was.

Former Uvalde school police officials face charges 2 years after Robb Elementary School shooting

The charges come more than two years after a teenage gunman killed 19 students and two teachers at Robb Elementary School.

www.cbsnews.com

They're lengthy.

Arredando's

Arredondo Indictment

Ten-count grand jury indictment of Pete Arredondo, incident commander during the Uvalde school shooting.

www.documentcloud.org

Gonzales' (scroll to end of article)

Former Uvalde school police chief, officer indicted

The indictments were kept under seal until the men were in custody

spectrumlocalnews.com

 

[brihard]

They're lengthy.

Arredando's

Arredondo Indictment

Ten-count grand jury indictment of Pete Arredondo, incident commander during the Uvalde school shooting.

www.documentcloud.org

Gonzales' (scroll to end of article)

Former Uvalde school police chief, officer indicted

The indictments were kept under seal until the men were in custody

spectrumlocalnews.com

Thanks, I’ll give them a look later.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Wow...

Tough call, but they got 'em both...

'I'm willing to risk my life': Police officer recounts response to Saanich bank shooting

Ahead of the two-year anniversary of a fatal shootout outside a Saanich bank, the police officer who helped lead the response recounts the day — and the recovery.

www.timescolonist.com