2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[brihard]

I watched that Chief deliver briefings on TV and I thought "this guy is in over his head and he has no clue how deep he's in".
I think the word "dunderhead" crossed my mind a few times.

Sloly was hired to bring about political change within Ottawa Police. He failed to be a cop when the city needed one at the helm.

 

[dapaterson]

Sloly was hired to bring about political change within Ottawa Police. He failed to be a cop when the city needed one at the helm.

Didn't do so well at the culture change thing either.

And the two problems are strongly interrelated.

 

[Remius]

Didn't do so well at the culture change thing either.

And the two problems are strongly interrelated.

He’s gone. The mayor is gone and so are a few other councillors and police services board members.

Good riddance.

 

[brihard]

Didn't do so well at the culture change thing either.

And the two problems are strongly interrelated.

Yes and no… In the case of Feb 2022, culture didn’t stop an effective public order policing response; that was Sloly stomping on his incident commander and meddling in operations instead of running his police service. The chief doesn’t - or at least shouldn’t - take operational command of a major incident. Anyway, that’s history now…

 

[dapaterson]

He’s gone. The mayor is gone and so are a few other councillors and police services board members.

Good riddance.

It's hard to tell that the mayor has changed... But this is a CPC thread, not "Ottawa's municipal politics are messed up" thread

 

[Good2Golf]

It's hard to tell that the mayor has changed... But this is a CPC thread, not "Ottawa's municipal politics are messed up" thread

…although we could say it’s CPC-related I that if such a convoy happens after 20 (27?) OCT 2025, we hope that both the OPS Chief and the CPC leader/PM would act appropriately to resolve the situation, not exacerbating it.

 

[ArmyRick]

So there have been many press conferences since the Singh-Trudeau breakup, aside from hearing that Singh has "torn up the agreement..." (he literally used that talking point like over and over and over...and over.

According to Singh, this next election is now a race between him and Pierre P (not according to any of the polls though). According to Singh the CPC will totally end public health care funding (funny, haven't seen a thing about that on the CPC website), cut off seniors from their once a year free cleaning of their teeth (AKA what he calls free dental care), starve children in schools (by ending the free lunch program or get an apple twice a week from your school program), give out huge payouts to large corporations (you mean like $12 million to Loblaws for new freezers? and Billions of dollars to the failing EV industry? Ohhhh wait, that was Trudeau the Liberals) and he even in one press conference referred to the CPC as "small" (remember when Chrystia Freeland used that word to describe the Torys and how it helped them win Toronto-St Pauls? Ohhhhh wait).

 

[The Bread Guy]

... According to Singh, this next election is now a race between him and Pierre P ...

Good luck not looking like the survivor frantically swimming away from the still-sinking ship, threatening to suck him back down, too ....

Don't know if Team Orange is correct if they think there's an appetite for MORE lefti-ish stuff out there (I'd guess HELL no) compared to PP & Co. If that were true, Team Red wouldn't be in the toilet as bad as it is.

Never having run the country = little NDP cred re: being a viable alternative, even if loads of those who don't respond to polls wanted more left-ish stuff.

 

[ArmyRick]

Good luck not looking like the survivor frantically swimming away from the still-sinking ship, threatening to suck him back down, too ....

Don't know if Team Orange is correct if they think there's an appetite for MORE lefti-ish stuff out there (I'd guess HELL no) compared to PP & Co. If that were true, Team Red wouldn't be in the toilet as bad as it is.

Never having run the country = little NDP cred re: being a viable alternative, even if loads of those who don't respond to polls wanted more left-ish stuff.

On the hard left vote Trudeau has lost much loyalty there.
-Looking interfere SNC-Lavalin (Anti-corporate types pissed)
-Treating JWR, Jane Philpott and Celina Caesar-Chavvennes like dirt (pissed off the feminist and Indigenous crowd)
-Dancing like a fool in India (Many Indo-Canadians found insulting)
-Pushing the LGQBT (whatever letters) + agenda very hard (pissed off Muslims)
-Juice water box thing incident (Made most people cringe)\
-Even Poly Souviens anti-gun group is very disappointed with him.

I think the problem with Trudeau is that even the hard left sees through his "acting skills" and know exactly what he is.

 

[RangerRay]

So there have been many press conferences since the Singh-Trudeau breakup, aside from hearing that Singh has "torn up the agreement..." (he literally used that talking point like over and over and over...and over.

According to Singh, this next election is now a race between him and Pierre P (not according to any of the polls though). According to Singh the CPC will totally end public health care funding (funny, haven't seen a thing about that on the CPC website), cut off seniors from their once a year free cleaning of their teeth (AKA what he calls free dental care), starve children in schools (by ending the free lunch program or get an apple twice a week from your school program), give out huge payouts to large corporations (you mean like $12 million to Loblaws for new freezers? and Billions of dollars to the failing EV industry? Ohhhh wait, that was Trudeau the Liberals) and he even in one press conference referred to the CPC as "small" (remember when Chrystia Freeland used that word to describe the Torys and how it helped them win Toronto-St Pauls? Ohhhhh wait).

If Singh wants to push what few supporters he has left to the Liberals in the metros and out east, keep attacking those “evil” Tories!

If Singh wants to, I don’t know, grow the NDP, he should be attacking the Liberals.

 

[brihard]

If Singh wants to push what few supporters he has left to the Liberals in the metros and out east, keep attacking those “evil” Tories!

If Singh wants to, I don’t know, grow the NDP, he should be attacking the Liberals.

His most significant plausible objective is, IMHO, to somehow hold the CPC to a minority government. Why would the NDP let up on attacking the Conservatives given this? If CPC succesfully win a majority the NDP will not be in an advantageous position. A minority gives them slightly more to work with in opposition.

 

[ArmyRick]

His most significant plausible objective is, IMHO, to somehow hold the CPC to a minority government. Why would the NDP let up on attacking the Conservatives given this? If CPC succesfully win a majority the NDP will not be in an advantageous position. A minority gives them slightly more to work with in opposition.

Your missing the point. The NDP going after the Tories is going to cause them more votes. If they try and fight hard enough, they could maybe secure opposition again, and thats a stepping stone from one day forming government.

So why attack the Liberals? The screw ups the Liberals have is a massive list of failures and some times blatant corruption. That gains them favour.

Attacking the Conservatives on thing that haven't said they were going to do at all just makes them look absolutely foolish.

 

[RangerRay]

I think that if the NDP were serious about supplanting the Liberals as the party of the centre left, they wouldn’t achieve that by telling people how evil the Tories are. They’ve historically had a problem with their soft voters voting Liberal to try to prevent a Tory government. The NDP needs to convince these voters and soft red Liberals that the LPC is ineffective in getting the things they want.

The NDP do well when left and centre left voters aren’t scared to vote for them.

I’m also not convinced that the NDP got the Liberals to move on pharmacare and dental. These seemed like programs the Liberals wanted to move forward on anyways. Singh could have driven a harder bargain but he didn’t.

 

[brihard]

Your missing the point. The NDP going after the Tories is going to cause them more votes. If they try and fight hard enough, they could maybe secure opposition again, and thats a stepping stone from one day forming government.

So why attack the Liberals? The screw ups the Liberals have is a massive list of failures and some times blatant corruption. That gains them favour.

Attacking the Conservatives on thing that haven't said they were going to do at all just makes them look absolutely foolish.

They need to do both. They need to attack the Liberals to pull votes from Lib to NDP. They also need to attack the CPC to try to sap enough strength that they don’t get a majority. These two goals are not mutually exclusive, but will need to be tailored a bit for region and riding.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Jack Layton got the NDP closer to switching places with the LPC than anyone will again in my lifetime. Actually achieving that would have been the work of at least a couple more election cycles. Then the NDP flushed that position by going along with "anybody but CPC", which in most cases amounted to "vote LPC". They haven't the patience to play a long game.

 

[brihard]

Jack Layton got the NDP closer to switching places with the LPC than anyone will again in my lifetime. Actually achieving that would have been the work of at least a couple more election cycles. Then the NDP flushed that position by going along with "anybody but CPC", which in most cases amounted to "vote LPC". They haven't the patience to play a long game.

I think you’re right. Without a Layton the NDP have a lower floor. Singh is decidedly not a Layton.

 

[Rifleman62]

Read somewhere (can't find it) that the Bloc replace the NDP with a supply and confidence agreement.

Liberals 154, Bloc 32 =186. CPC 119. The what to we do NDP 24.

A lot of people will really upset if the Bloc (blatantly continues) blackmailing Canada.

I still think the Liberals will prorogue Parliament to hide from a confidence vote.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

-Juice water box thing incident (Made most people cringe)\

Okay, I missed that one: What was it again?

 

[Good2Golf]

Okay, I missed that one: What was it again?

…a mere shadow of his earlier brilliance when he explained to Canadian how quantum computers work…

 

[Eaglelord17]

Read somewhere (can't find it) that the Bloc replace the NDP with a supply and confidence agreement.

Liberals 154, Bloc 32 =186. CPC 119. The what to we do NDP 24.

A lot of people will really upset if the Bloc (blatantly continues) blackmailing Canada.

I still think the Liberals will prorogue Parliament to hide from a confidence vote.

Ultimately what would most of the country being upset do to them?

They don’t care about English Canada, they are all about Quebec and Quebec’s issues. As long as Quebec is happy with their results it means they still win electorally.