2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[Fishbone Jones]

They most certainly CAN do worse. There are plenty of examples in history of a new leader or party swooping in to ready the ship and in the end leaving the country worse than it was before. Jsut because you like what they are selling doesn't mean there's no chance it's a lemon.

A cement block can't do worse than trudeau. Lies, corruption, ethics violations, questionable projects and initiatives that have the appearance of millions of dollars being funneled to party faithful, loss of stature throughout the world, to mention just a small fraction of his faults. There are so many problems with the current autocracy that PP would need to do his term in a coma. Even then, he'd do less damage than trudeau and his minions.

 

[Lumber]

A cement block can't do worse than trudeau. Lies, corruption, ethics violations, questionable projects and initiatives that have the appearance of millions of dollars being funneled to party faithful, loss of stature throughout the world, to mention just a small fraction of his faults. There are so many problems with the current autocracy that PP would need to do his term in a coma. Even then, he'd do less damage than trudeau and his minions.

You're half right: a cement block or PP in a coma probably would do less harm than Trudeau. However, a highly motivated and energetic, but incompetent and corrupt PP could very well do as much damage or worse. Emphasis on "could".

 

[Remius]

You're half right: a cement block or PP in a coma probably would do less harm than Trudeau. However, a highly motivated and energetic, but incompetent and corrupt PP could very well do as much damage or worse. Emphasis on "could".

My concern isn’t so much corruption with PP, it’s his rush to do things. He’ll be in a rush to show everyone he can fix everything and based on his populist messaging so far, he will break things and not in a good way. He’s got a year and a half or so to maybe think things through before he’s elected. If he’s held to a minority he’ll need to compromise and think things through, if he gets a majority he’ll probably go full ******.

 

[OldSolduer]

He’d better have a competent cabinet and loyal senior civil servants.

 

[Quirky]

if he gets a majority he’ll probably go full ******.

Good. This country needs to bleach every program the LPC touched.

 

[ArmyRick]

on his populist messaging

Why is it if one politician encourages Canadians to get behind them and stand together as a nation its seen as "populist"?

But if other politicians do the same thing in a different era, its fine and ok, and not viewed as "populist"?

Isn't the role of ANY prime minister candidate MP to get the nation behind them?

 

[Remius]

Why is it if one politician encourages Canadians to get behind them and stand together as a nation it’s seen as "populist"?

So far his messaging has been just that for now. Slogans and what people want to hear. Being a populist is not synonymous with being bad. But I have yet to see anything fleshed out yet,

But if other politicians do the same thing in a different era, it’s fine and ok, and not viewed as "populist"?

Like who? Trudeau was very much a populist when he rode in.

Isn't the role of ANY prime minister candidate MP to get the nation behind them?

Sure. But vacuous populism without substance is not, in my mind, the way to go.

 

[Good2Golf]

But I have yet to see anything fleshed out yet,

No decent poker player shows the others their hand unless they’re being called. Calling an election could be seen as ‘called’ but until then…

Remember, “time spent on recce is seldom wasted…”

 

[dimsum]

Why is it if one politician encourages Canadians to get behind them and stand together as a nation its seen as "populist"?

But if other politicians do the same thing in a different era, its fine and ok, and not viewed as "populist"?

Isn't the role of ANY prime minister candidate MP to get the nation behind them?

You just described Trudeau’s 2015 campaign. It was classically populist.

No decent poker player shows the others their hand unless they’re being called. Calling an election could be seen as ‘called’ but until then…

Remember, “time spent on recce is seldom wasted…”

From the tone of CPC messaging, I sometimes forget that campaigning hasn’t actually started yet or that an election hasn’t been called.

 

[TacticalTea]

You just described Trudeau’s 2015 campaign. It was classically populist.


From the tone of CPC messaging, I sometimes forget that campaigning hasn’t actually started yet or that an election hasn’t been called.

We've been in a permanent campaign since 2019.

The reality of minority governments.

 

[dimsum]

We've been in a permanent campaign since 2019.

The reality of minority governments.

The messaging hasn’t been that way since 2019 though, except for the 2021 election campaign (obviously).

The Opposition party opposing the govt is fine and part of the job. But the opposition (or the govt, either) didn’t start suggesting that their party would be better.

 

[Good2Golf]

From the tone of CPC messaging, I sometimes forget that campaigning hasn’t actually started yet or that an election hasn’t been called.

Not officially…

It of course serves the CPC (and arguably Canadian taxpayers) to have an election sooner than later, but formally waiting until Trudeau actually calls an election doesn’t mean Poilievre can’t give a few pokes here and there to see if Trudeau’s renowned hubris causes his ego him to make an untimely (vis a vis Team Red’s long-term goals) move…

 

[Lumber]

Why is it if one politician encourages Canadians to get behind them and stand together as a nation its seen as "populist"?

But if other politicians do the same thing in a different era, its fine and ok, and not viewed as "populist"?

Isn't the role of ANY prime minister candidate MP to get the nation behind them?

That's not what populism is. Populism is ignoring experience and expertise in favour of just doing what the "popular vote" wants, even if experience and expertise says its not actually in their best interest to do it. It's stupid and one of the reasons why we have representative democracies and not pure democracies world wide. People are stupid.

 

[dapaterson]

That's not what populism is. Populism is ignoring experience ansmd expertise in favour of just doing what the "popular vote" wants, even if experience and expertise says its not actually in their best interest to do it.

So, cutting the GST?

 

[Lumber]

So, cutting the GST?

Yes and no

On the one hand, there were probably a lot of people who only saw a tax cut and playing to them was definitely populist. On the other hand, there were a lot of people who are a little bit more "learned" and probably thought "I understand that this will affect government revenue, and I dont care. Find some pork in the barrel to cut out." In those cases, those people are "experts" and playing to them is a bit more pluralistic.

 

[ArmyRick]

That's not what populism is. Populism is ignoring experience and expertise in favour of just doing what the "popular vote" wants, even if experience and expertise says its not actually in their best interest to do it. It's stupid and one of the reasons why we have representative democracies and not pure democracies world wide. People are stupid.

Umm no
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages ·

pop·u·lism

noun

1. a political approach that strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.
   "the question is whether he will tone down his fiery populism now that he has joined the political establishment"
   • support for populist politicians or policies.
     "the government came to power on a wave of populism"
     
     
     
   • the quality of appealing to or being aimed at ordinary people.
     "art museums did not gain bigger audiences through a new populism"
     
     
     I think I will have to disagree with you

 

[ArmyRick]

People are stupid.

You said that? Go figure.

I highly recommend you don't ever run for a public office ever. anywhere. An attitude like that is very questionable and concerning

 

[TacticalTea]

That's not what populism is. Populism is ignoring experience and expertise in favour of just doing what the "popular vote" wants, even if experience and expertise says its not actually in their best interest to do it. It's stupid and one of the reasons why we have representative democracies and not pure democracies world wide. People are stupid.

Sounds like not being populist means being an elitist.

 

[Eaglelord17]

That's not what populism is. Populism is ignoring experience and expertise in favour of just doing what the "popular vote" wants, even if experience and expertise says its not actually in their best interest to do it. It's stupid and one of the reasons why we have representative democracies and not pure democracies world wide. People are stupid.

The reason we don’t have pure democracies is pure democracies tend not to be aggressive or invade anywhere. Switzerland is the only example in the world, and it is one of the best run most successful governments of the last 200 years.

Their citizens are also responsible and capable, voting to tax themselves regularly and regarding many things we all dread as civic duties.

‘Experts’ can be wrong, or more often than not, focused on a small proportion of a problem. Usually the one they are trying to solve results in some other issue.

 

[OldSolduer]

People are stupid.

And forgetful and forgive way tooooo much.

But you are correct.

Democracy is the worst form of government - except for all the others.