Haitian leaders must all agree before Canada would lead a potential military intervention, Trudeau says

U.S. has suggested Canada could lead a multinational force in Haiti

Dylan Robertson · The Canadian Press · Posted: Nov 20, 2022 1:27 PM ET

A potential Canadian military intervention in Haiti can't happen unless all political parties in the troubled nation agree to it, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Sunday.

Speaking from Tunisia on the final day of the two-day Francophonie summit, Trudeau announced $16.5 million to help stabilize Haiti, where gangs are strangling access to fuel and critical supplies amid a worsening cholera outbreak.

About half the money is going toward humanitarian aid, and some of the rest is intended to help weed out corruption and prosecute gender-based violence.

But Haiti's government has asked for an international military intervention to combat gangs who have strangled access to fuel and critical supplies in the middle of the outbreak.

The United States wants Canada to lead any military intervention.

Trudeau said Sunday that Canada is working with CARICOM, the organization of Caribbean governments, along with "various actors in Haiti from all different political parties" to get a consensus on how the international community can help.

"It is not enough for Haiti's government to ask for it," he said. "There needs to be a consensus across political parties in Haiti before we can move forward on more significant steps."

He did not rule out eventually establishing a Canadian military mission on the ground in Haiti.

"Canada is very open to playing an important role, but we must have a Haitian consensus," Trudeau said in French.

New sanctions on prominent former officials
A Global Affairs Canada assessment team sent to Haiti to establish some understanding of what is happening and what could help has already returned and provided a report at meetings Trudeau said he attended.

He said the response is complicated because many "political elites" and "oligarchs" in Haiti have used the country's humanitarian crises "to enrich themselves on the backs of the Haitian people."

"So that is why our approach now is not about doing what one political party or the government wants," Trudeau said. "It's calling for a level of consensus and coherence from all actors in Haiti to call for solutions that we can actually get behind and lead on as an international community."

On Saturday Canada expanded its economic sanctions freezing the Canadian assets of Haitian political elites to now include former president Michel Martelly and former prime ministers Laurent Lamothe and Jean-Henry Ceant.

Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie Joly accused the trio of helping gangs undermine Haiti's current government and called on international partners to follow Canada's lead.

"Our goal is to make sure that these people that are profiting from the violence, that are part of a corrupted system, are facing accountability," she said.

Haitian Foreign Affairs Minister Jean Victor Geneus said the new sanctions put real consequences on those causing a "nightmare" in his country.

"These sanctions will have a dissuasive impact," he said in French, while seated between Trudeau and Joly.

Geneus said gangs are raping women and girls, preventing children from attending school and not letting sick people through roadblocks when they seek medical treatment. That means refugees are leaving for neighbouring islands.

"If the necessary conditions for safety are not re-established in a fast and urgent manner, a humanitarian catastrophe is possible in Haiti," he said in French.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-haiti-intervention-sanctions-1.6658254

 

[medicineman]

You are going to have to be comfortable with killing people for awhile and the gangs will purposefully use kids for hits on government officials, just to make life harder for the occupying power. You would need to flood the area with money and basic jobs, building stuff that takes up a lot of manpower and time. Most don't have a good education or skills, so you need to keep the current generation busy and paid to limit gang influences. Capital punishment is also going to have to be a thing.

True enough, but a counter for using kids could be less than lethal type weapons - locals used to run if OC spray was pulled out or could resort to Port au Prince Hydro with handheld tasers or taser claymores, etc. Would have to ensure that ROE's aren't "wartime" so that the OC or CS could be employed legally (assuming CAF involved). There are a lot of ex-pat Haitians in Canada - could do a targeted hire for people to be deployed there for better optics...plus less of a language barrier at that point. Also, lose the blue beret presence there - this would need to be a green op, as the UN would (a) bureaucratize the whole thing with more admins than operators, (b) ensure the ROE's are unusable by even literate soldiers and (c) pretend there was a peace to keep instead of enforcing what effectively will be martial law.

$0.02

 

[RangerRay]

You can deal with refugees and you can also deny them their claim. I'm comfortable with that when its required.

I don’t disagree.

But if the the developed world can stabilize the country (again, don’t ask me how), then that’s fewer refugees showing up burdening our already overburdened refugee/immigration system.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Have a Western country send a bunch of do-gooders to Haiti, where they get kidnapped, etc,etc. Then you can go in and occupy the place and rescue most of the do gooders. But do it British colonist style. Pick a strong man, but keep them on a short lease, they get rich while helping to impose some order. The Western country imposes various civil services and backs up the strongman, but again keeps his forces on a short lease. Plan on being there for 40 years. Start educating the young right away and employing the adults. In 20 years that first crops of educated kids become the basis for a domestic civil service. Start the political system by allowing elections of municipal councils, but have outsiders run the provinces and oversee the councils. Use them to build a experienced political class, then start provincial elections, then at the 30-40 year mark, allow national elections for a PM/president and assist them in writing a Constitution. Your strong man gets the boot and told to take their millions elsewhere. The political class gets told, behave or we come down hard.

I know they have a theoretical political system and Constitution, but clearly neither has worked.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Have a Western country send a bunch of do-gooders to Haiti, where they get kidnapped, etc,etc. Then you can go in and occupy the place and rescue most of the do gooders. But do it British colonist style. Pick a strong man, but keep them on a short lease, they get rich while helping to impose some order. The Western country imposes various civil services and backs up the strongman, but again keeps his forces on a short lease. Plan on being there for 40 years. Start educating the young right away and employing the adults. In 20 years that first crops of educated kids become the basis for a domestic civil service. Start the political system by allowing elections of municipal councils, but have outsiders run the provinces and oversee the councils. Use them to build a experienced political class, then start provincial elections, then at the 30-40 year mark, allow national elections for a PM/president and assist them in writing a Constitution. Your strong man gets the boot and told to take their millions elsewhere. The political class gets told, behave or we come down hard.

I know they have a theoretical political system and Constitution, but clearly neither has worked.

Controlling access to safety, health care, jobs and food through a Kampong-style 'protected villages' plan might be the only way. Everyone in the settlements would be vetted and monitored 24/7, and ejected if causing trouble.

This would assume, of course, a long term naval blockade of the porous coastline, and an army blockade of the international border with DR, as well as extensive protection for the chosen settlements etc.

Singapore could consult to the UN on how to make this work properly

 

[Halifax Tar]

You are going to have to be comfortable with killing people for awhile and the gangs will purposefully use kids for hits on government officials, just to make life harder for the occupying power. You would need to flood the area with money and basic jobs, building stuff that takes up a lot of manpower and time. Most don't have a good education or skills, so you need to keep the current generation busy and paid to limit gang influences. Capital punishment is also going to have to be a thing.

We don't have the stomach for this.

I don’t disagree.

But if the the developed world can stabilize the country (again, don’t ask me how), then that’s fewer refugees showing up burdening our already overburdened refugee/immigration system.

This is a Carribean problem. They need to fix this, I see us in a supporting role.

 

[captloadie]

Have a Western country send a bunch of do-gooders to Haiti, where they get kidnapped, etc,etc. Then you can go in and occupy the place and rescue most of the do gooders. But do it British colonist style. Pick a strong man, but keep them on a short lease, they get rich while helping to impose some order. The Western country imposes various civil services and backs up the strongman, but again keeps his forces on a short lease. Plan on being there for 40 years. Start educating the young right away and employing the adults. In 20 years that first crops of educated kids become the basis for a domestic civil service. Start the political system by allowing elections of municipal councils, but have outsiders run the provinces and oversee the councils. Use them to build a experienced political class, then start provincial elections, then at the 30-40 year mark, allow national elections for a PM/president and assist them in writing a Constitution. Your strong man gets the boot and told to take their millions elsewhere. The political class gets told, behave or we come down hard.

I know they have a theoretical political system and Constitution, but clearly neither has worked.

This won't work with the Haitian people. Any inkling of colonialism will breed a counterinsurgency from day 1. Their proudest moment as a people is the throwing off the mantle of slavery under the rule of plantation owners. They tolerated the UN because it was never seen as trying to control the masses and implement a "white" solution. But the same thing has happened after every military sortie into the country. They demure for a time, await for the occupiers to lose interest and leave, and then go back to the basic principles of the strongest rule over the weak.

 

[stoker dave]

"As we have learned, you can’t deliver democracy from the top down and from the outside in. It has to grow organically from the bottom up."

 

[Colin Parkinson]

"As we have learned, you can’t deliver democracy from the top down and from the outside in. It has to grow organically from the bottom up."

The British did it pretty successfully in many countries, you just have to be there for the long run. There lies the problem, no one wants to be there for 40-60 years.

 

[GK .Dundas]

The British did it pretty successfully in many countries, you just have to be there for the long run. There lies the problem, no one wants to be there for 40-60 years.

Absolutely.

 

[lenaitch]

The British did it pretty successfully in many countries, you just have to be there for the long run. There lies the problem, no one wants to be there for 40-60 years.

Agree, but they weren't being altruistic. It's not like the British (or French or Spanish) set up responsible governments from Day 1. They established a somewhat heavy-handed stability that allowed most colonies to evolve into responsible government; some more agreeably than others.

At first, Britain was there to support the Empire, but at some point it seemed the Empire was viewed as existing to support Britain.

 

[OldSolduer]

Agree, but they weren't being altruistic. It's not like the British (or French or Spanish) set up responsible governments from Day 1. They established a somewhat heavy-handed stability that allowed most colonies to evolve into responsible government; some more agreeably than others.

At first, Britain was there to support the Empire, but at some point it seemed the Empire was viewed as existing to support Britain.

If you look closely its all about wealth and power.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

If you look closely its all about wealth and power.

Nobody starts an empire unless it's about those two things

 

[Jarnhamar]

Do we still have a navy boat doing circles off shore?

 

[KevinB]

This won't work with the Haitian people. Any inkling of colonialism will breed a counterinsurgency from day 1. Their proudest moment as a people is the throwing off the mantle of slavery under the rule of plantation owners. They tolerated the UN because it was never seen as trying to control the masses and implement a "white" solution. But the same thing has happened after every military sortie into the country. They demure for a time, await for the occupiers to lose interest and leave, and then go back to the basic principles of the strongest rule over the weak.

So then you just play whack a mole for thousnads of years.

The entire aspect is that one cannot be seen as occupiers, one either needs to be accepted by the majority of the populace, or you get two choices, eliminate the population that doesn't accept it (which would be deemed not acceptable in this day and age) or you sit back and wait for them to get sick of the situation and the majority demands international intervention.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

So then you just play whack a mole for thousnads of years.

The entire aspect is that one cannot be seen as occupiers, one either needs to be accepted by the majority of the populace, or you get two choices, eliminate the population that doesn't accept it (which would be deemed not acceptable in this day and age) or you sit back and wait for them to get sick of the situation and the majority demands international intervention.

 

[Halifax Tar]

So then you just play whack a mole for thousnads of years.

The entire aspect is that one cannot be seen as occupiers, one either needs to be accepted by the majority of the populace, or you get two choices, eliminate the population that doesn't accept it (which would be deemed not acceptable in this day and age) or you sit back and wait for them to get sick of the situation and the majority demands international intervention.

Your last choice is bang on.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Do we still have a navy boat doing circles off shore?

And who can forget this headline

Canada sending two small, slow naval ships to Haiti: Here's what they might do there​

It's not clear what HMCS Moncton and HMCS Glace Bay can do to help Haiti alleviate its troubles — troubles that mostly exist on land, not at sea

Canada sending two small, slow naval ships to Haiti: Here's what they might do there

The federal government has shed little light on their mission, except that they’ll concentrate their work near the capital Port-au-Prince.

nationalpost.com

 

[Quirky]

Do we still have a navy boat doing circles off shore?

Working remotely from a dock in Punta Cana.

 

[OldSolduer]

And who can forget this headline

Canada sending two small, slow naval ships to Haiti: Here's what they might do there​

It's not clear what HMCS Moncton and HMCS Glace Bay can do to help Haiti alleviate its troubles — troubles that mostly exist on land, not at sea

Canada sending two small, slow naval ships to Haiti: Here's what they might do there

The federal government has shed little light on their mission, except that they’ll concentrate their work near the capital Port-au-Prince.

nationalpost.com

Oh the year was 1778...

Oops 2024.....