Our North - SSE Policy Update Megathread

[Kirkhill]

It's not Trump. It's Putin. This whole thing wouldn't even be a thing if it wasn't for Putin. Trump is just letting his incessant blabbering embolden Putin.

You just can't, can you?

 

[FJAG]

You just can't, can you?

Nope.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Anyone taking bets on when info on the budget impacts will filter down to us peons? I'm guessing no earlier than May 6th.

 

[Halifax Tar]

It's not Trump. It's Putin. This whole thing wouldn't even be a thing if it wasn't for Putin. Trump is just letting his incessant blabbering embolden Putin.

That's funny, because the Article focuses not on Putin, which agreed is the evil aggressor, but instead about how Europe is responsible for its own defense now because it can't depend on America anymore. And never should have, nor should we have.

Play the 'if' game all you'd like, it means nothing in the face of reality.

Give Trump his due. He's scared countries into taking action. Perhaps the wrong approach but I like the outcome either way.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Anyone taking bets on when info on the budget impacts will filter down to us peons? I'm guessing no earlier than May 6th.

Honestly heard it being spouted out today by someone.

 

[FJAG]

That's funny, because the Article focuses not on Putin, which agreed is the evil aggressor, but instead about how Europe is responsible for its own defense now because it can't depend on America anymore. And never should have, nor should we have.

Play the 'if' game all you'd like, it means nothing in the face of reality.

Give Trump his due. He's scared countries into taking action. Perhaps the wrong approach but I like the outcome either way.

I know that we're divided into two polarized groups here. And, like many here, I'm not happy with the way the absurdly progressive crowd has seized the agenda on too many things. My response to the left is to see if there is a way to a middle ground that will actually cure the divisive issues rather than by throw gasoline on a fire.

The situation in Europe is serious because one guy, and the gangs that support him, are running amok step by step. This is a gang with not only millions of lives they're prepared to throw away needlessly and recklessly but who also have a healthy supply of nuclear weapons.

The fact that Europe is ramping up their defence after decades of peace is as a result of that threat from the east.

My response to your particular post turned entirely on the phrase "This is all a Trump victory." It is not. Not by any stretch of the imagination. To be a "victory" one needs to defeat an enemy or opponent and not an ally.

Trump is a shit disturber who revels in creating divisions because he firmly believes that his base loves his crap and will support him to the very end regardless as to the logic of what he's doing. He fawns over Putin and encourages his acts by leaving the impression that the alliance which has held Russia in check for 75 years has crumbled. Putin has increased his aggression incrementally with every step over the years. This nonsense from Trump, encouraged by far too many American conservatives, only encourages Putin more. He's stopped gathering low hanging fruit; he's aiming for higher.

With his divisiveness, including promising the Russians a large part of Ukraine and by getting his lickspittle followers in Congress to hold up aid, Trump has made the world a more dangerous place for all of us but most particulalry for the the Europeans. This is why they are arming.

If you want to celebrate a Trump victory then celebrate the fact that the Mexicans have now paid for the wall ... Oh wait.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I know that we're divided into two polarized groups here. And, like many here, I'm not happy with the way the absurdly progressive crowd has seized the agenda on too many things. My response to the left is to see if there is a way to a middle ground that will actually cure the divisive issues rather than by throw gasoline on a fire.

The situation in Europe is serious because one guy, and the gangs that support him, are running amok step by step. This is a gang with not only millions of lives they're prepared to throw away needlessly and recklessly but who also have a healthy supply of nuclear weapons.

The fact that Europe is ramping up their defence after decades of peace is as a result of that threat from the east.

My response to your particular post turned entirely on the phrase "This is all a Trump victory." It is not. Not by any stretch of the imagination. To be a "victory" one needs to defeat an enemy or opponent and not an ally.

Trump is a shit disturber who revels in creating divisions because he firmly believes that his base loves his crap and will support him to the very end regardless as to the logic of what he's doing. He fawns over Putin and encourages his acts by leaving the impression that the alliance which has held Russia in check for 75 years has crumbled. Putin has increased his aggression incrementally with every step over the years. This nonsense from Trump, encouraged by far too many American conservatives, only encourages Putin more. He's stopped gathering low hanging fruit; he's aiming for higher.

With his divisiveness, including promising the Russians a large part of Ukraine and by getting his lickspittle followers in Congress to hold up aid, Trump has made the world a more dangerous place for all of us but most particulalry for the the Europeans. This is why they are arming.

If you want to celebrate a Trump victory then celebrate the fact that the Mexicans have now paid for the wall ... Oh wait.

I'm not sure if you're trying to frame me as some Trump or nothing guy or your just trying to make this fit so you don't have to give Trump any credit.

Either way how about we respectfully agree to disagree on the why and both just be happy it's happening and wish it would happen more here too ?

 

[FJAG]

I'm not sure if you're trying to frame me as some Trump or nothing guy or your just trying to make this fit so you don't have to give Trump any credit.

Neither.

Either way how about we respectfully agree to disagree on the why and both just be happy it's happening and wish it would happen more here too ?

Agreed.

 

[Remius]

That's funny, because the Article focuses not on Putin, which agreed is the evil aggressor, but instead about how Europe is responsible for its own defense now because it can't depend on America anymore. And never should have, nor should we have.

That attitude would have really worked out during WW2. So we or the US pull out of NATO then? I don’t think we will like what comes from that. Countries that can’t rely on the US will start relying on other less savoury states…

Play the 'if' game all you'd like, it means nothing in the face of reality.

Give Trump his due. He's scared countries into taking action. Perhaps the wrong approach but I like the outcome either way.

He’s essentially telegraphed he would side with Putin and told him he would let him do whatever he wants.

We can argue that Canada isn’t spending enough on NATO but it seems the most unreliable partner is the US right now with its political mess in Congress.

 

[OldSolduer]

The situation in Europe is serious because one guy, and the gangs that support him, are running amok step by step. This is a gang with not only millions of lives they're prepared to throw away needlessly and recklessly but who also have a healthy supply of nuclear weapons.

The fact that Europe is ramping up their defence after decades of peace is as a result of that threat from the east.

AND the West stood by and appeased a thug (Putin), as we did in the 30s and 40s - and some even admired Hitler and Stalin. We, the West are too stupid and forgiving of people like this. That German Captain was right - Russia is too close and its nuclear arsenal is a problem.

EDIT TO ADD: And democracy is partly to blame - concentrating on the next election vice taking care of problems that need taking care of.

 

[JLB50]

While I certainly can’t speak for everyone, I think most here in this forum are of the opinion that the likelihood of war between the major powers of the world is becoming increasingly likely. If or when that time comes, we’re going to need an incredible sense of unity and patriotism to stand up to an evil that is far greater than any domestic one. I realize that many people here in North America are having problems making ends meet and are seriously considering an alternative to the present (whether it’s Poilievre or Trump). I just hope that the events occurring in Europe, Syria, the South China Sea and elsewhere will not be lost on Canadians come election time. Because what’s happening over there will at some point affect us here…and it won’t be to our benefit if we can’t get our act together.

 

[JLB50]

AND the West stood by and appeased a thug (Putin), as we did in the 30s and 40s - and some even admired Hitler and Stalin. We, the West are too stupid and forgiving of people like this. That German Captain was right - Russia is too close and its nuclear arsenal is a problem.

EDIT TO ADD: And democracy is partly to blame - concentrating on the next election vice taking care of problems that need taking care of.

Many of the upper class in Britain were terrified of communism and initially thought Hitler would stand up to the Reds and then everything would be back to normal and everyone in Europe would live happily ever after.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Many of the upper class in Britain were terrified of communism and initially thought Hitler would stand up to the Reds and then everything would be back to normal and everyone in Europe would live happily ever after.

Bund societies were active here in North America as well.

As for Trump emboldening Putin, I am not so sure that is the case. I will argue that Obama's dithering and grasping at straws to have a good rep globally led to much of the problems we are dealing with now. Trump's first term showed that he was harder to predict and a risk taker in regards to foreign policy and was not afraid to use muscle when required. That put a damper on things. Biden is seen as a weak and old leader, which likley emboldened Putin. I don't think Trump's 2nd term would work well. his "unpredictability" is no longer new and would be checked and he has lost a lot of support from the military. I also think Biden get another term would be a disaster. In other words the US is screwed for a term one way or another.

 

[McG]

just trying to make this fit so you don't have to give Trump any credit.

If someone craps in the bed, you don’t normally give them credit for having caused the sheets to be washed. Nor would you credit an arsonist for the city buying an overdue fire truck.

 

[WinnipegFella]

My primary point is that if the Feds want to keep a plant open for the purpose of continuously building armoured vehicles, the GDLS plant has produced vehicles such as MRAPs between LAV serials and sometimes even concurrently. The secondary is that it appears the army does require more than 1 type of vehicle in continuous production otherwise only LAV would be kept current and the rest of the “fleets” continue to exist in large, unconnected acquisitions that simply end (such as TAPV) until a replacement is required. It’s noteworthy that Oshkosh offered to have a continuously producing plant in London as part of their failed bid for TAPV (alongside the LMI plant).

I would note though that the LAV is simply a code word for jobs in London, where the Libs are in danger of losing all of their seats. They really don’t care if the army has an endless supply of any vehicles, they just want to hold onto the bastion in SWO.

MOWAG/GDLSC Eagles for the LUV program. Perfection.

 

[childs56]

The US was told to leave Germany, so they did. (down sized significantly) I think it was Norway and Denmark offered to store their equipment.
At the time Trump told Germany and Europe they better change their decision to downsize their Militaries as Putin was threatening to reunite the Former Soviet Union. They all ignored the suggestion.

People were lulled into a sense of tranquility.

 

[Halifax Tar]

That attitude would have really worked out during WW2. So we or the US pull out of NATO then? I don’t think we will like what comes from that. Countries that can’t rely on the US will start relying on other less savoury states…

Europe has to be responsible for European problems. Just like Canada needs to responsible for Canadian problems. Does that mean we cant help each other ? No. But the people at the focal point of the problem need to have the lions share of the responsibility. And I will be damned if I think Americans should be expected to expend their blood and treasure for a country that isn't willing to do it themselves.

He’s essentially telegraphed he would side with Putin and told him he would let him do whatever he wants.

To countries who were unwilling to get serious about their own defence. And expected American to cover that.

We can argue that Canada isn’t spending enough on NATO but it seems the most unreliable partner is the US right now with its political mess in Congress.

Good! All NATO countries should get more serious about themselves and stop relying on the USA to be NATO.

 

[Halifax Tar]

If someone craps in the bed, you don’t normally give them credit for having caused the sheets to be washed. Nor would you credit an arsonist for the city buying an overdue fire truck.

If someone points out that you crapped in your bed, and have for 50 years and isn't will cleaning it up for you anymore, and then tells you to fix it. I would call that tough love.

See the difference is I see Putin as the arsonist and Trump (If Prez again) as the FD.

 

[Remius]

Europe has to be responsible for European problems. Just like Canada needs to responsible for Canadian problems. Does that mean we cant help each other ? No. But the people at the focal point of the problem need to have the lions share of the responsibility. And I will be damned if I think Americans should be expected to expend their blood and treasure for a country that isn't willing to do it themselves.

And yet the US forced countries like Germany and Japan to not actually have standing armies and said they would would take care of it. They created the world we find ourselves in.

To countries who were unwilling to get serious about their own defence. And expected American to cover that.

In favour of countries that would live to just roll in and take over. Look who he admires and made friends with.

Good! All NATO countries should get more serious about themselves and stop relying on the USA to be NATO.

Only one country ever, invoked article 5. Guess who that was?

 

[Halifax Tar]

And yet the US forced countries like Germany and Japan to not actually have standing armies and said they would would take care of it. They created the world we find ourselves in.

Germany and Japan have had standing military's again since the 60s or 50s. Call the JSDF anything you want, its a military.

In favour of countries that would live to just roll in and take over. Look who he admires and made friends with.

Ugh I'm not getting into this.

Only one country ever, invoked article 5. Guess who that was?

The USA ? What's your point ? NATO hasn't been a great partner to the USA. I don't fault the USA for wanting everyone to do their share.