Which U.S. College Major is the Worst for Finding a Job?

[foresterab]

I often think of a snippet read many years ago talking about promotion boards and the qualifications needed in the British Army.

Fluency in a second language - preferably on of the core Indian languages - was give the same points as attendance at formal post secondary schooling.

It did not speak to what unit's you'd soldier in/be allowed in (Guards vs. British India) but the life skill aspect of languages have stuck with me.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I often think of a snippet read many years ago talking about promotion boards and the qualifications needed in the British Army.

Fluency in a second language - preferably on of the core Indian languages - was give the same points as attendance at formal post secondary schooling.

It did not speak to what unit's you'd soldier in/be allowed in (Guards vs. British India) but the life skill aspect of languages have stuck with me.

The requirements for running a global empire in the 18th-19th C are a bit different from today's needs, I'm thinking

 

[lenaitch]

In a Canadian context, where Universities provide education and Colleges provide training

In Ontario that line was blurred years ago.

weirdly there was pretty limited employment for someone who specialized in English tapestry between 1475 and 1523 (years made up but it was something extremely specific like that they spent 4 years doing a doctorate on)

I have niece with a PhD in female French (or French Canadian) poets of the 19th century. Somehow she has had difficulty maintaining employment and is now in law school. I figure her tuition costs will be paid off around 2350.

Some of those programs are also an absolute waste of money. I'm thinking Police Foundations or even in my own Industry where certain Colleges advertise progams for aspiring applicants:

RAIL

www.lambtoncollege.ca

The railroads run their own training programs and we psy people good money to undertake our training. I have no idea why someone would to go to school for this when it means nothing and we will give you all the training ourselves?

I know the OPP has soured on Police Foundations et al courses. They have strayed so far from their original program goals they are unrecognizable. Some courses, like fire and EMS, are burping out graduates faster than their industries can absorb them (or, in some cases, graduates not willing to follow the vacancies).

 

[Eaglelord17]

In Ontario that line was blurred years ago.


I have niece with a PhD in female French (or French Canadian) poets of the 19th century. Somehow she has had difficulty maintaining employment and is now in law school. I figure her tuition costs will be paid off around 2350.


I know the OPP has soured on Police Foundations et al courses. They have strayed so far from their original program goals they are unrecognizable. Some courses, like fire and EMS, are burping out graduates faster than their industries can absorb them (or, in some cases, graduates not willing to follow the vacancies).

Its not just police foundations. Plenty of collge programs which tons of students take and result in no jobs at the end (i.e. should have been shut down years ago). Forestry programs for example, though popular in my area result in no jobs and haven’t since the 80s but are money makers for the college.

Other programs which should be excellent for creating jobs, due to how poorly the programs are run are resulting in the same results. For example many machine shops locally don’t want people from the local mechanical program because they are trained so poorly it is worse than them being trained from scratch.

Instead they are starting to run co-ops with the highschools and if they have the slightest skill or interest they will offer them a apprenticeship. This is more in line with how I believe it should be anyways but it is interesting watching these ‘bastions of knowledge’ fall flat on their faces due to their own incompetency.

Who ever heard of a trades department head having no actual knowledge of the trades and only highschool? I know one college like that, and I am sure there is others the same way due to the lack of actual standards and the ability for nepotism in the colleges and universities to find jobs for their buddies.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Its the same in IT. With the amount of College programs that have created every subspecialty available, most companies are leaning harder on industry certs and Professional Association accreditation, because there is a demonstration of practical knowledge and ability.

 

[Navy_Pete]

@Eaglelord17 I don't think it's 'historical' that connections make jobs. The biggest benefit of going to places like Harvard seems to be getting into the club and meeting the business magnates and their kids vice the actual education. From what I can tell from their online courses the education itself is solid, but not anything you wouldn't find in other schools (other than enormous financial resources to support the facilities I guess).

I think that's just reality vice a good or bad thing; even in the concept of meritocracy hard to get away from that, so knowing the right person and at the right time can give you that opportunity you might not have had otherwise.

 

[stoker dave]

Young people today have a reasonable chance of living to be 100 years old. I don't know why we (as a society) force them to make choices when they are perhaps 16 years old that may impact their entire lives. I think more young folks should be encouraged to travel, volunteer, 'gap year', join the navy, join a circus.... whatever and not really worry about a career until they are perhaps more certain about what they want to do.

Seeing your life as chapters in a book might be better model and each chapter might have its own training and education aspect.

 

[Good2Golf]

Its the same in IT. With the amount of College programs that have created every subspecialty available, most companies are leaning harder on industry certs and Professional Association accreditation, because there is a demonstration of practical knowledge and ability.

True, although Waterloo is still a grad-time destination visit for many IT-related orgs’ HR/CTO staff.

 

[burdseyeflu]

Probably not the worst, but the one that's gone pretty soon, or will have to change is lower level programming. Any 2-3 year college programming will be eaten by AI methinks. A BSc in Comp Sci might be of benefit still as it encompasses philosophy, cryptography, hardware, software etc etc.

Correct me if I am wrong but you will be able to ask AI to essentially write a program. Tell it do do this thing with parameters that can be added later, in whatever language (maybe same program in 3 different languages), with 10 different variants per language.

If this is available, or even partially available, it would almost be stupid for business owners to hire people at this level.

 

[Eaglelord17]

@Eaglelord17 I don't think it's 'historical' that connections make jobs. The biggest benefit of going to places like Harvard seems to be getting into the club and meeting the business magnates and their kids vice the actual education. From what I can tell from their online courses the education itself is solid, but not anything you wouldn't find in other schools (other than enormous financial resources to support the facilities I guess).

I think that's just reality vice a good or bad thing; even in the concept of meritocracy hard to get away from that, so knowing the right person and at the right time can give you that opportunity you might not have had otherwise.

100% my point was more that historically the choice of degree mattered much less due to who was taking it, as opposed to now where it is much more accessible for the whole population.

Your family could be wealthy and still send you to get a degree that doesn’t generate wealth and you would still be well off as they already have the connections and means. That doesn’t apply to most the population though.

As many have found out just getting a degree means nothing in the modern era. They are very common and very expensive. If your family doesn’t have the means to absorb the costs you need to pay you need to take out student loans. If that degree isn’t helping you make money that just became a mortgage on nothing.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Probably not the worst, but the one that's gone pretty soon, or will have to change is lower level programming. Any 2-3 year college programming will be eaten by AI methinks. A BSc in Comp Sci might be of benefit still as it encompasses philosophy, cryptography, hardware, software etc etc.

Correct me if I am wrong but you will be able to ask AI to essentially write a program. Tell it do do this thing with parameters that can be added later, in whatever language (maybe same program in 3 different languages), with 10 different variants per language.

If this is available, or even partially available, it would almost be stupid for business owners to hire people at this level.

You still need humans to vet it. Often it can be more time consuming to have to verify and correct than to just do it right with a human. Plus AI can only go off of what it has been told, if it is reading a wrong code, it doesn’t necessarily understand that.

I am not into computers myself, but based off my buddies that are, the amount of time it takes to find a small error in a program which is causing it to not work can be huge.

 

[burdseyeflu]

@Eaglelord17 I don't think it's 'historical' that connections make jobs. The biggest benefit of going to places like Harvard seems to be getting into the club and meeting the business magnates and their kids vice the actual education. From what I can tell from their online courses the education itself is solid, but not anything you wouldn't find in other schools (other than enormous financial resources to support the facilities I guess).

I think that's just reality vice a good or bad thing; even in the concept of meritocracy hard to get away from that, so knowing the right person and at the right time can give you that opportunity you might not have had otherwise.

I think of those classic Ivy League schools, if you could make it through, gave you a golden ticket for employment based on reputation. Since schools have essentially whored themselves to international student money, employers don't seem to care from where you get your education, or what you know.
Though I'd say that it takes education to be able to recognize education, and HR's ability to recognize the aforementioned is lacking to say the least. Like severely. I'd go further and argue that the whole HR experiment of the past 15-20 years is a failed one. Execs should probably be hiring the people they want working for them, not a disconnected auxiliary of the company.

Jus my 2c

 

[lenaitch]

Its not just police foundations. Plenty of collge programs which tons of students take and result in no jobs at the end (i.e. should have been shut down years ago). Forestry programs for example, though popular in my area result in no jobs and haven’t since the 80s but are money makers for the college.

Other programs which should be excellent for creating jobs, due to how poorly the programs are run are resulting in the same results. For example many machine shops locally don’t want people from the local mechanical program because they are trained so poorly it is worse than them being trained from scratch.

Instead they are starting to run co-ops with the highschools and if they have the slightest skill or interest they will offer them a apprenticeship. This is more in line with how I believe it should be anyways but it is interesting watching these ‘bastions of knowledge’ fall flat on their faces due to their own incompetency.

Who ever heard of a trades department head having no actual knowledge of the trades and only highschool? I know one college like that, and I am sure there is others the same way due to the lack of actual standards and the ability for nepotism in the colleges and universities to find jobs for their buddies.

The high school I went to back when the earth was still cooling ws sort of the flagship for the board. We had a computer (it was huge) and a shop wing with just about every specialty imaginable; wodd, metal, auto, drafting, electrical, HVAC, and more. If I recall correctly, all of our shot teachers came from the trades and took a summer course in teaching. I can't image that happening today.

Both the wife and I took 'law enforcement' at a community college. All of our instructors were ex cops. About half way through her career, she decided to go into teaching and did that for about 12 years. When she left, there were maybe one or two ex cops left on staff. Professional academics had taken over.

 

[Eaglelord17]

The high school I went to back when the earth was still cooling ws sort of the flagship for the board. We had a computer (it was huge) and a shop wing with just about every specialty imaginable; wodd, metal, auto, drafting, electrical, HVAC, and more. If I recall correctly, all of our shot teachers came from the trades and took a summer course in teaching. I can't image that happening today.

Both the wife and I took 'law enforcement' at a community college. All of our instructors were ex cops. About half way through her career, she decided to go into teaching and did that for about 12 years. When she left, there were maybe one or two ex cops left on staff. Professional academics had taken over.

I would like to become a trades teacher myself. I genuinely love my trade and sharing it with others I quite enjoy.

That being said getting a 2 year degree to teach is stupidity. Taking two years off work to move to another city to get a degree when I am making more than what a teacher makes in my career is asinine. Why would I put myself down several hundred thousand dollars just to get a degree which won’t really change much of anything. The old short certifications made sense.

Considering Ontario has a massive shortage of tech teachers and is considering strong arming non-trades qualified teachers into them, grabbing a random tradesperson is a much better decision.

I would switch because the pay difference isn’t huge and the pension and time off are way better. Plus working hours are way better. I know the negatives of teaching, my mother is one and I watched her grade and do the extra stuff most don’t realize exists, but is necessary. Still a lot less hours worked than my current career.

 

[stoker dave]

Agree with Mr Eaglelord17.

I worked for 30 years as a licensed professional engineer and am now semi-retired. I think I have a pretty good grasp of applied math, science and chemistry and could likely teach senior high school and pepper the lessons with lots of real-world applications.

How many times in high school math does someone ask 'and how is this applied in real life?' and the teacher, whose qualification to teach math was (maybe) having studied math, has no answer?

However, I think kids today can be difficult to manage, entitled, demanding and if they don't get their way you can expect a call from their parents. Teachers are also social workers, deal with kids on all kinds of medications, with all kinds of mental health issues (real and perceived) and may or may not be motivated to actually be in school. I am not sure I would do well in that environment.

Regardless, the short path to a some kind of limited teaching license is something sorely lacking.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

True, although Waterloo is still a grad-time destination visit for many IT-related orgs’ HR/CTO staff.

So this usually the deliniation point from Technologist to Technical Management. Its usually because, while experienced in the field of networking/administration hell even architecture/design; a lot of those technical folks do require higher level education afterwards in communications/HR because they're not normally around people most of their careers.

 

[lenaitch]

2 year degree

I think it's at least three now unless you already have an undergrad degree. More nuts.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Agree with Mr Eaglelord17.

I worked for 30 years as a licensed professional engineer and am now semi-retired. I think I have a pretty good grasp of applied math, science and chemistry and could likely teach senior high school and pepper the lessons with lots of real-world applications.

How many times in high school math does someone ask 'and how is this applied in real life?' and the teacher, whose qualification to teach math was (maybe) having studied math, has no answer?

However, I think kids today can be difficult to manage, entitled, demanding and if they don't get their way you can expect a call from their parents. Teachers are also social workers, deal with kids on all kinds of medications, with all kinds of mental health issues (real and perceived) and may or may not be motivated to actually be in school. I am not sure I would do well in that environment.

Regardless, the short path to a some kind of limited teaching license is something sorely lacking.

I think you might be surprised.

Kids respond well to good teachers and respect those who can lead, maintain order in a class room and are good instructors. They dislike and disrespect phoneys.

It is almost as if good leadership and competency is a trait in short supply in the education system..

 

[daftandbarmy]

However, I think kids today can be difficult to manage, entitled, demanding and if they don't get their way you can expect a call from their parents. Teachers are also social workers, deal with kids on all kinds of medications, with all kinds of mental health issues (real and perceived) and may or may not be motivated to actually be in school. I am not sure I would do well in that environment.

Huh, just like trying to lead adults in the workplace then?

 

[Eaglelord17]

I think it's at least three now unless you already have an undergrad degree. More nuts.

2 if you have the trade certification. That being said the conditions they put on it all is insane. All to keep the teachers as a exclusive closed workforce.

Its concerning when the province is talking about putting non-trades teachers in charge of trades classes. Unlike other subjects where all they might get wrong is the information, this is how people get killed and hurt.