2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[Remius]

This Fifth Estate doc is going to be a problem for PeePee

80% of Canadians want what I want. Canada needs to root out ANY foreign interference in our sovereignty or security.

crier.co

I don’t like how over-the-top the article reads, but if the Fifth Estate video is true, then there is a problem.

I’ll have to watch that fifth estate video before passing any judgement.

I’m not yet seeing any traction yet on this anywhere other than a new NDP petition calling for an investigation.

 

[OldSolduer]

When CBC can hand out 15 million dollars in performance pay to its execs when cutting the local work forces then CBC needs to go. Or at least the pampered entitled executives starting with the CEO.

This sort of stuff has started revolutions.

 

[IKnowNothing]

This Fifth Estate doc is going to be a problem for PeePee

80% of Canadians want what I want. Canada needs to root out ANY foreign interference in our sovereignty or security.

crier.co

I don’t like how over-the-top the article reads, but if the Fifth Estate video is true, then there is a problem.

To be taken with three or more grains of salt - Indian Consulate Interfered In CPC Leadership Race To Hinder Patrick Brown Campaign

 

[The Bread Guy]

To be taken with three or more grains of salt - Indian Consulate Interfered In CPC Leadership Race To Hinder Patrick Brown Campaign

Yup - been out there from all sides of the political media spectrum for a bit ...

Indian proxies funding Canadian politicians "at all levels of government": CSIS Report

October 2022 Intelligence Assessment suggests Indian Consulate interfered in Conservative Federal leadership contest

www.thebureau.news

Indian government officials interfered in Conservative Party's leadership race: report

A CSIS intelligence assessment from October 2022 detailed efforts from foreign governments, including India and China, to influence Canadian elections.

www.rebelnews.com

CSIS Investigating Southwestern Ontario Conservative Nomination Vote, Conservative Sources Say

Conservative Party denies knowledge of CSIS investigation involving a chaotic nomination battle in Oxford County, Ontario

pressprogress.ca

We'll have to see if the Fifth Estate coverage nudges this a bit more into the limelight.

 

[dimsum]

Yup - been out there from all sides of the political media spectrum for a bit ...

Indian proxies funding Canadian politicians "at all levels of government": CSIS Report

October 2022 Intelligence Assessment suggests Indian Consulate interfered in Conservative Federal leadership contest

www.thebureau.news

Indian government officials interfered in Conservative Party's leadership race: report

A CSIS intelligence assessment from October 2022 detailed efforts from foreign governments, including India and China, to influence Canadian elections.

www.rebelnews.com

CSIS Investigating Southwestern Ontario Conservative Nomination Vote, Conservative Sources Say

Conservative Party denies knowledge of CSIS investigation involving a chaotic nomination battle in Oxford County, Ontario

pressprogress.ca

We'll have to see if the Fifth Estate coverage nudges this a bit more into the limelight.

The fact that we haven’t been bombarded with something potentially against the CPC on this topic would seem to suggest that maybe the MSM isn’t a leftist mouthpiece.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The fact that we haven’t been bombarded with something potentially against the CPC on this topic would seem to suggest that maybe the MSM isn’t a leftist mouthpiece.

None of the sources in your quote from @The Bread Guy are a news service I would put any weight in. 2 of them I have never heard of. I wouldn't call any of them MSM. I know you don't like PP, but you're reaching here.

 

[dimsum]

None of the sources in your quote from @The Bread Guy are a news service I would put any weight in. 2 of them I have never heard of. I wouldn't call any of them MSM. I know you don't like PP, but you're reaching here.

You misunderstand me. I wasn’t talking about those sources.

My point is that the CBC, CTV (except the Fifth Estate), Global, TorStar, etc haven’t been publishing articles about this.

 

[Halifax Tar]

You misunderstand me. I wasn’t talking about those sources.

My point is that the CBC, CTV (except the Fifth Estate), Global, TorStar, etc haven’t been publishing articles about this.

I've just got home from 6 weeks at sea, but isn't the 5th Estate part of an MSM corporation ?

 

[IKnowNothing]

The fact that we haven’t been bombarded with something potentially against the CPC on this topic would seem to suggest that maybe the MSM isn’t a leftist mouthpiece.

This thread of discussion dovetails nicely in with this post.

I'm going to struggle to express this. But maybe the silence is because one of the fundamental pillars of modern-Canada - multi-culturalism- is at a fundamental crossroads Does the "mosaic" work if modern communications + tightly grouped diaspora's erode cultural assimilation and result in greater allegiance to the home country?

The ideal was/is a great thing- and worked when immigration meant functionally leaving everything behind and immersing yourself in Canada. Can it still work?

How do you dive in and discuss "foreign interference" permeating every facet of Canadian politics when it is actually "Canadian citizens of foreign descent exercising their constitutional rights- just in the interests of another country" - it's a very messy issue, hard to approach without some existential questions. Is it wrong for Canadian's to want Canadian policy to be friendly to their former countries? To reflect their beliefs? Are those not protected freedoms? Where/ how is a line drawn?

 

[Kirkhill]

This thread of discussion dovetails nicely in with this post.

I'm going to struggle to express this. But maybe the silence is because one of the fundamental pillars of modern-Canada - multi-culturalism- is at a fundamental crossroads Does the "mosaic" work if modern communications + tightly grouped diaspora's erode cultural assimilation and result in greater allegiance to the home country?

The ideal was/is a great thing- and worked when immigration meant functionally leaving everything behind and immersing yourself in Canada. Can it still work?

How do you dive in and discuss "foreign interference" permeating every facet of Canadian politics when it is actually "Canadian citizens of foreign descent exercising their constitutional rights- just in the interests of another country" - it's a very messy issue, hard to approach without some existential questions. Is it wrong for Canadian's to want Canadian policy to be friendly to their former countries? To reflect their beliefs? Are those not protected freedoms? Where/ how is a line drawn?

Shared histories. For a couple of hundred years there were two opposing shared histories in Canada. They dominated the politics. And much of the land of Canada was left largely untouched and occupied by inhabitants that predated those cultures and that had their own shared histories and their own conflicts. Inuit - Dorset. Cree - Dene. Iroquoian - Algonkian. But they were low density hunter-gatherer societies.

Now we have introduced multiple other cultures that have established their own colonies (communities or ghettos, your choice) and they are now striving to grow in the local broth while facing what micro-biologists know as competitive inhibition.

The promise of the New World was that it was an escape from the Old World. Now the New World is starting to look like the Old World. And the farther back you go, the older the world you look at, the more complex the situation appears. And the oldest and most complex places are the Fertile Crescent and the Bend of Yellow River.

Mountainous areas are conducive to maintaining discrete cultures. It is easy to find defensible valleys that provide shelter and resources for a small community and are easy to fortify. You don't need many warriors to hold the pass. You can put that saved labour into doing other things like growing food or spending a bit more time making fancier pots and clothes or coming up with different ways of doing things.

Those that live in the open areas, nomads, are never secure. They never control their environment. The environment controls them, they are constantly on the move in search of the resources they need. They are always insecure. They are always on a war footing.

And then there are the people that inhabit the Borderlands between the secure and the insecure.

....


Canada, and the US, is starting to look like everywhere else.

 

[dimsum]

I've just got home from 6 weeks at sea, but isn't the 5th Estate part of an MSM corporation ?

Yes it is. But again, my point is that were the MSM writ large controlled by “the Left”, this would be all over all of the MSM companies.

But right now it’s the Fifth Estate doing a piece almost 2 years later? And no one else, not even the CBC, raising a huge stink about it when it allegedly happened?

 

[Weinie]

Yes it is. But again, my point is that were the MSM writ large controlled by “the Left”, this would be all over all of the MSM companies.

But right now it’s the Fifth Estate doing a piece almost 2 years later? And no one else, not even the CBC, raising a huge stink about it when it allegedly happened?

Maybe it's a nothing burger. Wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Yes it is. But again, my point is that were the MSM writ large controlled by “the Left”, this would be all over all of the MSM companies.

But right now it’s the Fifth Estate doing a piece almost 2 years later? And no one else, not even the CBC, raising a huge stink about it when it allegedly happened?

It's still consistent with the "hypothesis". "The Left" should not want a scandal dug into if the effort risks shedding light on something that would damage their own interests more.

 

[The Bread Guy]

None of the sources in your quote from @The Bread Guy are a news service I would put any weight in. 2 of them I have never heard of. I wouldn't call any of them MSM. I know you don't like PP, but you're reaching here.

Press Progress is a generally left-of-centre source, while the Rebel is generally right-of-centre organ and thebureau.news seemed to pass scrutiny when cited on Russian shenanigans elsewhere on the boards, so my selection was more showing that it isn't just pro- OR anti-government observers some fire behind the smoke.

.... My point is that the CBC, CTV (except the Fifth Estate), Global, TorStar, etc haven’t been publishing articles about this.

Global has run stories on the CSIS 2022 assessment ...

Foreign interference networks ‘deeply embedded’ in Canadian politics, CSIS report says - National | Globalnews.ca

A report obtained by Global News says 'foreign interference' is interfering with Canadian democracy.

globalnews.ca

... but I agree that it's also interesting that both right & left media sources have picked up the India-Conservative angle while the allegedly Conservative-hating, bought-and-paid-for other media don't seem to be running with this as hard.

Maybe it's a nothing burger. Wouldn't be the first time.

Could also be the case, but in other situations, a lot of links to non-MSM outlets (or even social media) get bandied about suggesting "where there's smoke, there's gotta be fire", so the same principle should apply here. It'll be interesting to see what unfolds -- or not.

 

[Weinie]

Press Progress is a generally left-of-centre source, while the Rebel is generally right-of-centre organ and thebureau.news seemed to pass scrutiny when cited on Russian shenanigans elsewhere on the boards, so my selection was more showing that it isn't just pro- OR anti-government observers some fire behind the smoke.

Global has run stories on the CSIS 2022 assessment ...

Foreign interference networks ‘deeply embedded’ in Canadian politics, CSIS report says - National | Globalnews.ca

A report obtained by Global News says 'foreign interference' is interfering with Canadian democracy.

globalnews.ca

... but I agree that it's also interesting that both right & left media sources have picked up the India-Conservative angle while the allegedly Conservative-hating, bought-and-paid-for other media don't seem to be running with this as hard.

Could also be the case, but in other situations, a lot of links to non-MSM outlets (or even social media) get bandied about suggesting "where there's smoke, there's gotta be fire", so the same principle should apply here. It'll be interesting to see what unfolds -- or not.

Could be a slow news day, their other stories didn't pan out, journos sick/missed deadlines, click bait, or they are just lazy etc etc. It'll indeed be interesting.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Could be a slow news day, their other stories didn't pan out, journos sick/missed deadlines, click bait, or they are just lazy etc etc ...

Or a stew of all of the above, for sure ....

 

[Brad Sallows]

Could be a slow news day, their other stories didn't pan out, journos sick/missed deadlines, click bait, or they are just lazy etc etc. It'll indeed be interesting.

There's always the possibility that the framing for the story is about as accurate as the framing presented for the story behind the elimination of aptitude testing for some applicants.

The press isn't better on some stories than on others. It's fair to assume they consistently perform to the lowest verifiable standard.

 

[Weinie]

There's always the possibility that the framing for the story is about as accurate as the framing presented for the story behind the elimination of aptitude testing for some applicants.

The press isn't better on some stories than on others. It's fair to assume they consistently perform to the lowest verifiable standard.

Verifiable imputes a source(s). Source(s) can run the gamut from altruistic to trial balloons to evil intent.

 

[RangerRay]

This thread of discussion dovetails nicely in with this post.

I'm going to struggle to express this. But maybe the silence is because one of the fundamental pillars of modern-Canada - multi-culturalism- is at a fundamental crossroads Does the "mosaic" work if modern communications + tightly grouped diaspora's erode cultural assimilation and result in greater allegiance to the home country?

The ideal was/is a great thing- and worked when immigration meant functionally leaving everything behind and immersing yourself in Canada. Can it still work?

How do you dive in and discuss "foreign interference" permeating every facet of Canadian politics when it is actually "Canadian citizens of foreign descent exercising their constitutional rights- just in the interests of another country" - it's a very messy issue, hard to approach without some existential questions. Is it wrong for Canadian's to want Canadian policy to be friendly to their former countries? To reflect their beliefs? Are those not protected freedoms? Where/ how is a line drawn?

Except many of those citizens are also being intimidated by their home country’s government into acting on their behalf or silence. When they report this activity to the police or government, they’re met with a shrug and “Gee, sucks to be you…”

 

[TacticalTea]

This thread of discussion dovetails nicely in with this post.

I'm going to struggle to express this. But maybe the silence is because one of the fundamental pillars of modern-Canada - multi-culturalism- is at a fundamental crossroads Does the "mosaic" work if modern communications + tightly grouped diaspora's erode cultural assimilation and result in greater allegiance to the home country?

The ideal was/is a great thing- and worked when immigration meant functionally leaving everything behind and immersing yourself in Canada. Can it still work?

How do you dive in and discuss "foreign interference" permeating every facet of Canadian politics when it is actually "Canadian citizens of foreign descent exercising their constitutional rights- just in the interests of another country" - it's a very messy issue, hard to approach without some existential questions. Is it wrong for Canadian's to want Canadian policy to be friendly to their former countries? To reflect their beliefs? Are those not protected freedoms? Where/ how is a line drawn?

It's very obvious at this point that the purpose of multiculturalism is to lay the foundation for a singular global culture, arranged into a singular (tyrannical) global government, managing a singular (megacorporation-dominated) global market.

There is no other benefit to multiculturalism. It destroys national cohesion and social trust, drowns national cultures thus erasing cultural diversity at a global scale, it drains the wealthiest, smartest and most qualified individuals from emigrating populations, and brings down all markers of quality of life (crimelessness, GDP per capita, cleanliness, access to education, healthcare and social support, etc) for receiving populations.

The best possible avenue for Canada - as a democratic, Western society of Christian heritage - is a complete decentralization and a return to national identities. There's two possible paths: federal constitutional reform (which no one is talking about) and balkanization (which people are talking about in Quebec and Alberta).