Updated Army Service Dress project

[Blackadder1916]

If they are your medals and you are retired, do what you want with them.

As your observation was in reference to the photo of medals being worn by an individual in an Australian Army uniform, it may be assumed that he was still serving at the time of the picture and thus was wearing them in accordance with that organization's dress instructions. He wouldn't have the option of "overlap". Once he retired, what are they gonna do? Take away his birthday? They certainly won't pay to rearrange his rack to a less silly size.

And then there are some Australians who have to overlap (even their miniatures) so that they can fit through the door.

 

[Ludoc]

I think there is an unwritten rule that if you have the one on the left you can kinda do what ever you want.

To clarify: the left side of that rack. Not the stuff on the other lapel.

 

[eliminator]

King Charles wears his minis overlapped....as he has a hockey-sock of UK and foreign orders.

For Canadians, the guide provided by Rideau Hall states, "With miniatures, it is generally necessary to overlap where ten or more are worn. When insignia are overlapped, the insignia that has precedence must always be fully visible, with the next ones partially hidden: the more insignia there are, the more they will have to overlap."

For 'issues' like this...there's obviously no official medals police, but if someone decides to wear unearned honours, they could potentially be charged and convicted under the Criminal Code of Canada (very rare, but it does happen).

For minor medal wearing faux pas (i.e. adding unofficial medals with official honours), there's always the 'self-regulators' - like the Stolen Valour groups, and of course, retired CWOs (lol).

 

[Kilted]

There is no legal definition of what the difference is between a decoration and a medal in Canada. The most common difference is that decorations have post-nomials and medals do not. I have never had anyone show me anything that was convincing as to why the CD is not a decoration. It is listed under long service medals, but remember, all decorations are medals, but not all medals are decorations.

Also, the CD already has a place in the order of precedence in the UK, as the CD is actually a British medal that has been incorporated into the Canadian Honours System.

I've seen a few similar groups and there's lots of different interpretations of the rules. In this case, it would appear that the CD was treated as a 'Commonwealth/foreign decoration' - although it's really a medal, thus prioritized over the others. Most other situations I've seen where a Canadian moves to another Commonwealth country, the order of the Canadian awards stays intact (UN, NATO awards classified as 'Canadian') and the CD placement remains.

 

[eliminator]

There is no legal definition of what the difference is between a decoration and a medal in Canada. The most common difference is that decorations have post-nomials and medals do not. I have never had anyone show me anything that was convincing as to why the CD is not a decoration. It is listed under long service medals, but remember, all decorations are medals, but not all medals are decorations.

Not to go down a rabbit hole (ugh), but I think that might be up to interpretation. I looked up a few Letters Patent for a few different 'decorations' and 'medals' and it does not seem to mix the two terms interchangeably. I will agree that the CD is in fact a decoration, but only because we called it a decoration.

However, it may depend on what you consider a "legal definition"? Section 419 of the Criminal Code does mention the two terms: "...wears a distinctive mark relating to wounds received or service performed in war, or a military medal, ribbon, badge, chevron or any decoration or order that is awarded for war services..."

For example:

LETTERS PATENT
Creating
Military Valour Decorations to be designated and styled as the Victoria Cross, the Star
of Military Valour and the Medal of Military Valour.
DATED 31st December, 1992
RECORDED 31st December, 1992

Letters patent creating the Queen Elizabeth II’s Diamond Jubilee Medal
P.C. 2011-1558 December 8, 2011​

Whereas the Government of Canada considers it desirable that a medal be created for the purpose of marking the sixtieth anniversary of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II’s accession to the throne on February 6, 1952; And whereas the creation of a Canadian honour on this occasion is properly of concern to Her Majesty as Queen of Canada;


Regulations for the Establishment of the Canadian Forces’ Decoration
(Reprint of Order in Council PC 1981-2310 of 19 August 1981)
The Canadian Forces’ Decoration may be awarded to officers and men of the Canadian Forces who, in an approved capacity, have completed a period of twelve years’ service in accordance with the regulations set out below:
1. Designation
The decoration shall be designated “The Canadian Forces’ Decoration”.

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . . as the CD is actually a British medal that has been incorporated into the Canadian Honours System.

Really?

While we may share a Sovereign, it doesn't make us British. Despite the inclusion of the Canadian Forces Decoration in British order of wear for orders, decorations and medals, the UK government had no involvement in the conception or development of this Canadian item. My assumption is that it was/is included because the Brits who most commonly wear this decoration are members of the Royal Family. The King (in right of Canada) was involved though. It's an interesting story. Information archivée dans le Web | Information Archived on the Web

Some questions about it being a "decoration" were raised by the Palace:

. . . The second issue related to the use of the word “Decoration.” Lascelles rightly noted that “decorations”, save the Victoria Cross and George Cross, were traditionally restricted to officers and warrant officers. The last concern related to the inclusion of post-nominals with the award of the CD. The proposal submitted to the King noted that every recipient of the CD was to be entitled to the post-nominal designation “CD”. Up to this point, only long service decorations, which were awarded to officers alone, were accompanied by post-nominals. Lascelles observed “there might be demands for it to be expanded to holders of the I.S.M, the L.S. & G.C.M, the R.C.M.P.L.S.M., [Imperial Service Medal, Long Service and Good Conduct Medal, RCMP Long Service Medal,] etc.”40 The points were all valid, but they also reflected a certain level of rigidity.

But Canada's position was:

. . . The use of the term “decoration” was noted as important
to “keep this medal on as high a plane as possible and it is therefore considered that
it should be known as the Canadian Forces’ Decoration.”43 The last point relating
to post-nominals was similarly dealt with: “it is considered equally fair that they
[non-commissioned officers] should be permitted the same privilege [of the
post-nominals CD].”

 

[Kilted]

Really?

While we may share a Sovereign, it doesn't make us British. Despite the inclusion of the Canadian Forces Decoration in British order of wear for orders, decorations and medals, the UK government had no involvement in the conception or development of this Canadian item. My assumption is that it was/is included because the Brits who most commonly wear this decoration are members of the Royal Family. The King (in right of Canada) was involved though. It's an interesting story. Information archivée dans le Web | Information Archived on the Web

Some questions about it being a "decoration" were raised by the Palace:

. . . The second issue related to the use of the word “Decoration.” Lascelles rightly noted that “decorations”, save the Victoria Cross and George Cross, were traditionally restricted to officers and warrant officers. The last concern related to the inclusion of post-nominals with the award of the CD. The proposal submitted to the King noted that every recipient of the CD was to be entitled to the post-nominal designation “CD”. Up to this point, only long service decorations, which were awarded to officers alone, were accompanied by post-nominals. Lascelles observed “there might be demands for it to be expanded to holders of the I.S.M, the L.S. & G.C.M, the R.C.M.P.L.S.M., [Imperial Service Medal, Long Service and Good Conduct Medal, RCMP Long Service Medal,] etc.”40 The points were all valid, but they also reflected a certain level of rigidity.

But Canada's position was:

. . . The use of the term “decoration” was noted as important
to “keep this medal on as high a plane as possible and it is therefore considered that
it should be known as the Canadian Forces’ Decoration.”43 The last point relating
to post-nominals was similarly dealt with: “it is considered equally fair that they
[non-commissioned officers] should be permitted the same privilege [of the
post-nominals CD].”

It was created as part of the British Honours System before the creation of the Canadian Honours System, similar to the Victoria Cross. Canada has since created a Canadian version of the Victoria Cross, but has not created a Canadian version of the Canadian Forces Decoration.

 

[Ostrozac]

Also, the CD already has a place in the order of precedence in the UK, as the CD is actually a British medal that has been incorporated into the Canadian Honours System.

To an extent. The CD (and other early Canadian-specific medals, such as the WWII Canadian Volunteer Service Medal) were indeed created prior to the full establishment of the Canadian honours system, but they were minted by the Royal Canadian Mint and do not appear in the UK’s current list of medals, which goes back to the Great War.

Medals: campaigns, descriptions and eligibility

Details of the medals awarded to serving members of the armed forces, veterans and MOD employees; and who can receive them.

www.gov.uk

I think of the CD, the CVSM and the RCMP Long Service medal as hybrid awards — not truly established under the Canadian honours system, but also not really part of the UK’s — they are a link on the evolutionary path.

 

[FSTO]

Looks not too bad.

 

[WinnipegFella]

Looks not too bad.

It's got that timeless look, not the Greyhound driver in the early 60s look we currently have.

Btw for any readers, is there an active H&A thread? It seems like there's a lot of H&A talk here and I have a couple questions, but want to make sure it's on the relevant thread.

 

[dimsum]

I saw a picture somewhere but it looks like the current New Zealand Army uniform. Not saying it’s a good or a bad thing, just saying it’s similar.

 

[WinnipegFella]

I saw a picture somewhere but it looks like the current New Zealand Army uniform. Not saying it’s a good or a bad thing, just saying it’s similar.

It does. Slightly less green and more khaki for ours. The Sam Browne making a comeback for officers would be sick too, looks awesome. That said, it might be a bit pricey. Maybe a Capt or Maj and up thing.

I wouldn't mind a little more regalia in our dress uniforms, considering our army uniforms are pretty bland.

 

[dangerboy]

I saw a picture somewhere but it looks like the current New Zealand Army uniform. Not saying it’s a good or a bad thing, just saying it’s similar.

Here is a picture that was taken during the International Women's Day Display showing off the prototype Canadian Army Service Dress.

 

[dimsum]

Here is a picture that was taken during the International Women's Day Display showing off the prototype Canadian Army Service Dress.

View attachment 83660

For the love of Xenu why wasn’t the name tag “Bloggins”???

 

[OldSolduer]

For the love of Xenu why wasn’t the name tag “Bloggins”???

Who is Xenu?

 

[dapaterson]

Who is Xenu?

Pilot. Flies old aircraft between planets.

 

[dimsum]

Who is Xenu?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

It looks like a proper Army Uniform. I like it.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Here is a picture that was taken during the International Women's Day Display showing off the prototype Canadian Army Service Dress.

View attachment 83660

Would everyone wear that hat?

 

[WinnipegFella]

Would everyone wear that hat?

I hope so, forage caps are sick. Berets look awful with the full suit. It's hard to explain but your head looks way too small against the bulky DEU suit.