CMMA - replacing the CP140 Aurora

[dimsum]

An article in the Ottawa Citizen says that Bombardier has officially teamed with General Dynamics Mission Systems-Canada to offer a Global 6500-based replacement for the CP-140s.

Apparently the team is pushing the fact that GDMS-C already does the sensors on the Auroras and Cyclones and has a proven design with low-risk integration.

 

[dapaterson]

"We didn't respond to the solicitation of interest, but please give us pushed of money anyways".

 

[YZT580]

An article in the Ottawa Citizen says that Bombardier has officially teamed with General Dynamics Mission Systems-Canada to offer a Global 6500-based replacement for the CP-140s.

Apparently the team is pushing the fact that GDMS-C already does the sensors on the Auroras and Cyclones and has a proven design with low-risk integration. They also note that with the planned Aurora modernization extending the service life of the CP-140s into the 2030s that leaves plenty of time for the CF to look at different options than the P-8 for replacement (which is still technically in the "options analysis" phase) and as per PSPC, the RFI to Boeing "does not commit Canada to purchasing the P-8A Poseidon".

Looks like Minister Anand is in for a political fight.

have they ever developed an aircraft capable of airdropping stores carried internally?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

"We didn't respond to the solicitation of interest, but please give us pushed of money anyways".

“Because-Bombardier!” Thank-you, now where do we pick up our dumptruck full of money to deliver vapourware?

 

[quadrapiper]

...with the planned Aurora modernization extending the service life of the CP-140s into the 2030s...

I'm sure this has been asked and answered somewhere on the last forty pages, but how thrashed are the airframes themselves?

Also, "the 2030s" aren't that far off, even if P-8s were ordered tomorrow with no more modifications than "we'll have those in RCAF charcoal, please."

 

[KevinB]

“Low risk” integration, huh?

Ok, then.

I’m chucking that anyone would be mentioning Cyclone in a brief designed to show competency with systems integration.

 

[lenaitch]

An article in the Ottawa Citizen says that Bombardier has officially teamed with General Dynamics Mission Systems-Canada to offer a Global 6500-based replacement for the CP-140s.

Apparently the team is pushing the fact that GDMS-C already does the sensors on the Auroras and Cyclones and has a proven design with low-risk integration. They also note that with the planned Aurora modernization extending the service life of the CP-140s into the 2030s that leaves plenty of time for the CF to look at different options than the P-8 for replacement (which is still technically in the "options analysis" phase) and as per PSPC, the RFI to Boeing "does not commit Canada to purchasing the P-8A Poseidon".

Looks like Minister Anand is in for a political fight.

I wonder how many weapons it can carry. Perhaps we don't want to do that anymore; look don't touch.

Even just for trying they will no doubt get government money thrown at them. Too bad they sold off most of their useful product line.

 

[FSTO]

Would be nice if Anand just bitched slapped any Liberal MP that brings this dumbass idea to cabinet.

 

[dimsum]

The GDMS press release:

Bombardier Defense and General Dynamics Mission Systems–Canada are Collaborating to Deliver Canada’s Multi-Mission Aircraft

Bombardier Defense and General Dynamics Mission Systems-Canada are collaborating to deliver the next-generation Multi-Mission and Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) aircraft that will meet the requirements set by the Government of Canada for the Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft (CMMA) program.

gdmissionsystems.ca

I noticed that "weapons" or "stores" is not in there.

 

[FSTO]

The GDMS press release:

Bombardier Defense and General Dynamics Mission Systems–Canada are Collaborating to Deliver Canada’s Multi-Mission Aircraft

Bombardier Defense and General Dynamics Mission Systems-Canada are collaborating to deliver the next-generation Multi-Mission and Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) aircraft that will meet the requirements set by the Government of Canada for the Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft (CMMA) program.

gdmissionsystems.ca

I noticed that "weapons" or "stores" is not in there.

 

[Spencer100]

Would be nice if Anand just bitched slapped any Liberal MP that brings this dumbass idea to cabinet.

You do know that MP is PM? LOL

 

[GR66]

I wonder how many weapons it can carry. Perhaps we don't want to do that anymore; look don't touch.

Even just for trying they will no doubt get government money thrown at them. Too bad they sold off most of their useful product line.

Yikes...don't shoot the messenger! LOL I'm a P-8 fan myself...but unfortunately logic doesn't win every fight!

 

[armrdsoul77]

Bombardier partners with General Dynamics on platform that meets Canada’s Multi-Mission Aircraft requirements - Skies Mag

Bombardier is collaborating with General Dynamics on a multi-mission and anti-submarine warfare aircraft that will meet the requirements for Canada.

skiesmag.com

 

[FSTO]

View attachment 77651

Bombardier partners with General Dynamics on platform that meets Canada’s Multi-Mission Aircraft requirements - Skies Mag

Bombardier is collaborating with General Dynamics on a multi-mission and anti-submarine warfare aircraft that will meet the requirements for Canada.

skiesmag.com

Hey lookie here. AI can draw cool looking planes as well!

 

[dapaterson]

Oh no! The air industry has its own version of the MMEV!

 

[SupersonicMax]

Another image of the Bombardier proposal:

 

[Quirky]

View attachment 77651

Bombardier partners with General Dynamics on platform that meets Canada’s Multi-Mission Aircraft requirements - Skies Mag

Bombardier is collaborating with General Dynamics on a multi-mission and anti-submarine warfare aircraft that will meet the requirements for Canada.

skiesmag.com

What is this, Microsoft flight sim x?

Please let this competition happen, lets stretch this nonsense out like we did with the F-35 only to comeback to the same conclusion. This country is a joke.

 

[Spencer100]

And this why the DND is looking to life extend the CP140.

As I have posted before, you could see this coming. Quebec Inc, the Liberal party, and are not onboard with the Boeing plan. Bombardier should be able to sell this very easily. You will have Quebec on side from the start. You can get the Canadian anti American side going along. The press is already onside plus will do what they are told now. Now with GD in on it. They have a good size footprint in the Canada.

Taking bets on:

1. The 16 unit buy of P-8
2. A competition with P-8 and the Bomber.
3. Slit buy of some P-8's and future buy of the magic CAD Bomber design.

I'm going with number 3. Mainly because its the best outcome I think we can hope for. In that we get some P-8 v the most likely outcome of the Bomber vaporware. I do think Bombardier is the front runner now. It's almost impossible to soul source now. "They have a plane, see here's the drawing"

Extra point.....name of the Bombardier design? I'm going with Argus II.

 

[dimsum]

And this why the DND is looking to life extend the CP140.

As I have posted before, you could see this coming. Quebec Inc, the Liberal party, and are not onboard with the Boeing plan. Bombardier should be able to sell this very easily. You will have Quebec on side from the start. You can get the Canadian anti American side going along. The press is already onside plus will do what they are told now. Now with GD in on it. They have a good size footprint in the Canada.

Taking bets on:

1. The 16 unit buy of P-8
2. A competition with P-8 and the Bomber.
3. Slit buy of some P-8's and future buy of the magic CAD Bomber design.

I'm going with number 3. Mainly because its the best outcome I think we can hope for. In that we get some P-8 v the most likely outcome of the Bomber vaporware. I do think Bombardier is the front runner now. It's almost impossible to soul source now. "They have a plane, see here's the drawing"

Extra point.....name of the Bombardier design? I'm going with Argus II.

Drawing =/= plane. The press is interesting - many of those articles highlight that the P-8 is in service whereas the Bombardier bid is a blueprint, if that.

Also, anyone with any insight into the CP-140 fleet knew that the Auroras would need to be extended as they won’t have the full replacement fleet by 2030.

This is a non-story.

Oh, I’m betting on 1, btw.

 

[dimsum]

Please let this competition happen, lets stretch this nonsense out like we did with the F-35 only to comeback to the same conclusion. This country is a joke.

I’m not sure how this is like the F-35 procurement. The F-35 situation was that at the time, the LPC platform was to not buy the F-35. All 5 bidders at the time were real aircraft.

This situation is where one bidder has an actual airplane in service with many of our allies, and one that is a drawing and an orphan fleet if we go that route. With the history of the Kingfisher and the Cyclone, I suspect that the RCAF and the GoC would be wary of the bad press.

Also, the P-8 group has a ton of Canadian companies in the bid, so they can also argue for Canadian jobs.