Canadian soldier charged with feeding cannabis cupcakes to artillery unit during live-fire exercise

[ballz]

Why would we use SWE or contractors when soldier time is free?

That's me throwing shade at our poor management practices, in case anybody doesn't catch the sarcasm.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

On a ship, the canteen is run by volunteers, usually during meal hours.

 

[Halifax Tar]

On a ship, the canteen is run by volunteers, usually during meal hours.

Yes and no. They apply for the job and are interviewed and hired as canteen employees. They receive pay and T4s.

The real money is in the laundry or bar tending. It's all tips.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Yes and no. They apply for the job and are interviewed and hired as canteen employees. They receive pay and T4s.

The real money is in the laundry or bar tending. It's all tips.

Ok, but you have to volunteer, first, right?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Yes. Nothing new, out of the ordinary or contrary to regulations.

https://www.cfmws.com/en/AboutUs/Library/PoliciesandRegulations/Corporate/Documents/aps110_e.pdf

Thanks for the links and info.


Putting injured soldiers in the canteen is terrible and the CAF needs to stop doing that.

Reserves complain about not having enough people, and not getting enough training. Putting a qualified corporal in the canteen seems wasteful.

Maybe I'm just biased after seeing canteen proceeds "that will go right back to the troops!" end up paying for departure gifts for RSMs and COs.

 

[Weinie]

Thanks for the links and info.


Putting injured soldiers in the canteen is terrible and the CAF needs to stop doing that.

Reserves complain about not having enough people, and not getting enough training. Putting a qualified corporal in the canteen seems wasteful.

Maybe I'm just biased after seeing canteen proceeds "that will go right back to the troops!" end up paying for departure gifts for RSMs and COs.

That is just wrong.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Yes and no. They apply for the job and are interviewed and hired as canteen employees. They receive pay and T4s.

The real money is in the laundry or bar tending. It's all tips.

That's one of those things that never happened up in the weirdroom (possibly the C&POs) where it's on a chit system. I bartended because it was kind of fun, and let me be social without having to have a lot of conversations sometimes.

Kind of weird to think of a canteen running during a live fire exercise; I can see during after the daily activities are done, but I don't really get a lot of the silly bugger SOPs.

 

[FJAG]

That's one of those things that never happened up in the weirdroom (possibly the C&POs) where it's on a chit system. I bartended because it was kind of fun, and let me be social without having to have a lot of conversations sometimes.

Kind of weird to think of a canteen running during a live fire exercise; I can see during after the daily activities are done, but I don't really get a lot of the silly bugger SOPs.

Between fire missions there's a lot of sitting around shooting the breeze while you wait for the next one.

No idea what this canteen was like but they can be pretty informal and low effort things with a cooler or two for pop and a couple of boxes of chips and candy bars and hot rods (and cupcakes apparently).

Some batteries I was with would have the BSM's driver running it out of the back of the BSM's truck.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Between fire missions there's a lot of sitting around shooting the breeze while you wait for the next one.

No idea what this canteen was like but they can be pretty informal and low effort things with a cooler or two for pop and a couple of boxes of chips and candy bars and hot rods (and cupcakes apparently).

Some batteries I was with would have the BSM's driver running it out of the back of the BSM's truck.

W Battery had a pretty slick, full time setup when I was a student in Gagetown (when dinosaurs roamed the earth).

They could extract $$$ every summer from hundreds of phase trg students (it was a fair trade- a cold pop to wash the dust out of your mouth on a hot, humid gun position was a small luxury). It also provided a service to the members of the Battery. The profits paid for the Battery Christmas Party and probably most of the PT gear and initial Regimental kit issue for the troops of W Battery. Not only did they have stand in the gunline, they had a 5/4 truck (nominally, the BSM’s) tricked out with coolers/racks to bring the canteen to the field.

It also would not have bothered me if Canex had a 4 x 4 and drove around the training area all day selling stuff to courses...

 

[ballz]

The company/squadron/battery canteens are not the problem. They're great and I fully support.... great for morale / providing stuff the CAF doesn't always provide, and the proceeds make things like a company Christmas party possible.

But units having a full-time, permanent canteen in the lines is a little different..... I can think of a lot of better ways to integrate the CANEX and the messes but no one is interested in running things well or fairly, it's all about their own little empires and interests, soldier morale is always second to someone else's interests.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

The company/squadron/battery canteens are not the problem. They're great and I fully support.... great for morale / providing stuff the CAF doesn't always provide, and the proceeds make things like a company Christmas party possible.

But units having a full-time, permanent canteen in the lines is a little different..... I can think of a lot of better ways to integrate the CANEX and the messes but no one is interested in running things well or fairly, it's all about their own little empires and interests, soldier morale is always second to someone else's interests.

This is going off topic, but it is really, really difficult to get Canex interested in providing retail services in unit lines or in the field.

Yeah- some units want to run retail empires/kit shops. Most don’t and just want to be able buy a coffee/donut without leaving work.

 

[ballz]

This is going off topic, but it is really, really difficult to get Canex interested in providing retail services in unit lines or in the field.

Yeah- some units want to run retail empires/kit shops. Most don’t and just want to be able buy a coffee/donut without leaving work.

Wasn't going to suggest CANEX has anything to do with unit line stuff or the field, but it's definitely straying off topic.

 

[FJAG]

The company/squadron/battery canteens are not the problem. They're great and I fully support.... great for morale / providing stuff the CAF doesn't always provide, and the proceeds make things like a company Christmas party possible.

But units having a full-time, permanent canteen in the lines is a little different..... I can think of a lot of better ways to integrate the CANEX and the messes but no one is interested in running things well or fairly, it's all about their own little empires and interests, soldier morale is always second to someone else's interests.

The canteens might be permanent but the staff isn't. There are always folks around who aren't part of the normal training cycle - injured folks on light duty, folks who've put in their six-month notice and have stopped giving a rat's ass and the like. Things like canteens keep them busy and at the same time provides a service to the troops who are working hard.

Remember that units spend most of their time in the lines and not in the field. The two services are pretty much integrated to go from one to the other.

 

[ballz]

The canteens might be permanent but the staff isn't. There are always folks around who aren't part of the normal training cycle - injured folks on light duty, folks who've put in their six-month notice and have stopped giving a rat's ass and the like. Things like canteens keep them busy and at the same time provides a service to the troops who are working hard.

Remember that units spend most of their time in the lines and not in the field. The two services are pretty much integrated to go from one to the other.

I'm pretty familiar with how they're staffed and the garrison/field split. Not necessarily W Battery but in general. People end up in those jobs for multiple years sometimes, quite frequently. Often depends on if they're a "good guy" or not.

There is utility to being able to utilize someone whose got extenuating circumstances to still be part of the team and contribute, but sometimes it gets pretty out of hand.

 

[FJAG]

I'm pretty familiar with how they're staffed and the garrison/field split. Not necessarily W Battery but in general. People end up in those jobs for multiple years sometimes, quite frequently. Often depends on if they're a "good guy" or not.

There is utility to being able to utilize someone whose got extenuating circumstances to still be part of the team and contribute, but sometimes it gets pretty out of hand.

Yeah. I'm against that type of stuff same as you. We're limited on PYs and they're put where they are supposed to be. TD that's really T is one thing but once you start making it a full-time thing then its just gaming the system.

I feel the same way about Class B's that go on year after year. It's just a way to get around PY limitations.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'm pretty familiar with how they're staffed and the garrison/field split. Not necessarily W Battery but in general. People end up in those jobs for multiple years sometimes, quite frequently. Often depends on if they're a "good guy" or not.

Agreed. I know someone who was in the canteen for at least 5 years, no exaggeration. Honestly probably even longer I just never noticed. When someone took notice and attempted to move him back to doing his job he put in a VR. Canteen is a place to hide soldiers all too often.

IMO it's detrimental for injured soldiers to go there because it puts them on display for everyone to see daily. Moves away from the spirit of keeping Injured soldiers closer to the front lines and their teams/buddies.


In the reserves it always seemed like the same soldiers would get the canteen queen positions on exercises and over summer taskings. If soldiers were primarily "canteen staff material" then why keep them in the CAF?

The soldier from this story didn't appear to have a high opinion of her based off comments on reddit from members (allegedly) from her own regiment. Lots of "no surprise" or "not surprised she'd do this".
Is it beneficial for reserve units to retain soldiers who are earmarked for canteen duty all the time?

 

[dapaterson]

Cheaper to keep them in the Res F than in the Reg F...

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

In some Res Units the canteen was staffed on training weekends by troops who did not have trade that was required for the training plan to work. Troops like Fin Clerks, Admin Clerks, or Supply techs. Those trades would do the work on Friday night getting everyone out the door, pay sheets signed off, Nominal roles typed up, meal claims, kit, weapons issued, vehicles issued. So if they were not needed for other roles such as CP duty as runners or drivers to go get rations and cleaning up after meals become the duties of the those troops so the other training could be supported and run. So some of the troops were always on canteen duty or mess hall duties without fail. Some of these duties required totally different hours of operation than the troops doing the training. Breakfast is 0630, the breakfast runner is up and gone by 0530,or earlier depending on distance to the mess hall and the number of units training that weekend, standing in line to pick up, to get the hay boxes washed, filled and back on site and set up for 0630. So those troops are usually working different hours and might not be seen as much or as often.

I was fin clerk in a Res Inf unit and a Res Armoured unit. Not much need for me on Inf exercise, or Armoured exercise. Play enemy force if required or do one of many behind the scenes jobs. Troops got fed, got junk food and at no cost of bodies from the firing line so to speak.

But I always believed using a troop from the unit that is suppose to be doing the training was a waste of man power. If doing Inf training, taking a troop off the training plan to go get food, run the canteen or be the runner was a waste of training dollars. That soldier should be doing something to learn more about his or her position in the Company, Squadron or Battery.
Just my opinion

 

[dapaterson]

Log troops do not exist to do your scut work.

Your ech needs to practice its work, including feeding your soldiers.

 

[OldSolduer]

Log troops do not exist to do your scut work.

Your ech needs to practice its work, including feeding your soldiers.

Correct.