Cost of housing in Canada

[Brad Sallows]

I suspect the young people who played by "the rules" and are locked out of home ownership are no more happy to find the rules no longer apply... Meaning they are likely to vote for someone who will adjust the rules to make it more "fair" for them.

They already are, and it's already costing me money. I'm disinclined to sympathize with the fraction who voted for marijuana decriminalization knowing that it would be accompanied by deficit spending.

 

[Furniture]

Municipal planning hasn't been bungled if a municipality planned itself to be a certain way and people bought there because they liked the plan. That the federal or provincial government is desperate to shoehorn more people in should not be the municipality's concern. If a higher level of government moves to assert changes, consideration ought to be given to whether it might amount to a taking (expropriation of assets).

Interesting, because I never heard of a municipality turning people away... or complaining when the undesirables spend their money in the municipality.

Any municipality that fails to factor the reality of urban growth into their plans has failed to plan, and Canadian towns and cities are terrible for it. They all seem to want to pretend they're sleepy little villages... of 500K-3M people.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Interesting, because I never heard of a municipality turning people away... or complaining when the undesirables spend their money in the municipality.

Any municipality that fails to factor the reality of urban growth into their plans has failed to plan, and Canadian towns and cities are terrible for it. They all seem to want to pretend they're sleepy little villages... of 500K-3M people.

Municipalities don't turn people away. People either find places to live, or they don't. People who buy in desirable neighbourhoods reasonably expect the desirable qualities to be maintained. That has to be factored in when a municipality is deciding what to do within the limits of its provincially fixed boundaries, unless the province expands the municipal boundaries. Obviously maintenance of status quo is subject to change at the ballot box - but if the chosen council is satisfied with status quo, the province should respect that.

Increasing the number of people in one place is a solution; so is expanding the number of places.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Technically correct, but the concept of a house being an investment is quite old. The goal when I was young was to make sure you built equity, because renting meant spending with no gain. Remind me of any business that would adopt that model long term?

Renting does have some pros. Your not locked into a area. Your rent is the max you will spend as opposed to a house where your mortgage payment is the minimum. In a lot of the larger cities your rent is less than the mortgage payments at this point.

Lots of businesses have bought into the renting type model, how many businesses choose to actively own things as opposed to renting/leasing them and having the maintenance as part of that contract? Very few companies try to keep everything in house anymore, its all about contracting out (i.e. renting) as much as possible.

Houses are depreciating assets unless people do maintenance on them. The only reason they are appreciating so much at the moment is due to the lack of supply (5.11 million needed to be built in the next 8 years, when the best Canada has ever done in that same span is 2 million).

My grandfather for example has owned about 5 different houses in Canada (selling and buying a different one each time, due to moving for work, etc.). He only made money off one of them and that was recently due to the housing prices going up. Otherwise he actively lost money on them.

Most people do not make money off houses. If you pay a 25 year mortgage by the end of the 25 years on average you will double the cost of the house. Not to mention all the maintenance costs. Generally in that time you will have to change a furnace or two, maybe a roof or two, etc. You may lose less money than renting, but you also may not. It really depends on the situation.

It is only in the last few years has your average person been really been making more than they put into it.

Don’t get me wrong I am not against homeownership, I am one myself (working to actively pay it off as fast as possible to avoid doubling the cost), but it isn’t the path to riches most seem to believe it is in this country.

 

[dimsum]

Renting does have some pros. Your not locked into a area. Your rent is the max you will spend as opposed to a house where your mortgage payment is the minimum. In a lot of the larger cities your rent is less than the mortgage payments at this point.

Lots of businesses have bought into the renting type model, how many businesses choose to actively own things as opposed to renting/leasing them and having the maintenance as part of that contract? Very few companies try to keep everything in house anymore, its all about contracting out (i.e. renting) as much as possible.

Houses are depreciating assets unless people do maintenance on them. The only reason they are appreciating so much at the moment is due to the lack of supply (5.11 million needed to be built in the next 8 years, when the best Canada has ever done in that same span is 2 million).

My grandfather for example has owned about 5 different houses in Canada (selling and buying a different one each time, due to moving for work, etc.). He only made money off one of them and that was recently due to the housing prices going up. Otherwise he actively lost money on them.

Most people do not make money off houses. If you pay a 25 year mortgage by the end of the 25 years on average you will double the cost of the house. Not to mention all the maintenance costs. Generally in that time you will have to change a furnace or two, maybe a roof or two, etc. You may lose less money than renting, but you also may not. It really depends on the situation.

It is only in the last few years has your average person been really been making more than they put into it.

Don’t get me wrong I am not against homeownership, I am one myself (working to actively pay it off as fast as possible to avoid doubling the cost), but it isn’t the path to riches most seem to believe it is in this country.

I also don’t necessarily think that renting is a bad thing - unless the owners decide to sell and you get involuntarily moved.

You also have to ensure that the amount you don’t spend is invested wisely, or you might end up losing more than a mortgage payment.

Again, as you said, each situation will be different. It’ll also have to assume that we don’t pull a US housing market circa 2008.

 

[mariomike]

Renting does have some pros. Your not locked into a area.

Right.

When an individual is employed by a town, and they buy a house, they may feel more "locked in" to the community they serve than perhaps a renter would.

Town employees are not just visiting, or passing through.

That may even increase an interest in the results of their work.

Or, maybe not.

I also don’t necessarily think that renting is a bad thing - unless the owners decide to sell and you get involuntarily moved.

200 seniors being evicted from their retirement residence

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/mississauga-retirement-home-evictions-1.7166057

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Renting does have some pros. Your not locked into a area. Your rent is the max you will spend as opposed to a house where your mortgage payment is the minimum. In a lot of the larger cities your rent is less than the mortgage payments at this point.

Lots of businesses have bought into the renting type model, how many businesses choose to actively own things as opposed to renting/leasing them and having the maintenance as part of that contract? Very few companies try to keep everything in house anymore, its all about contracting out (i.e. renting) as much as possible.

Houses are depreciating assets unless people do maintenance on them. The only reason they are appreciating so much at the moment is due to the lack of supply (5.11 million needed to be built in the next 8 years, when the best Canada has ever done in that same span is 2 million).

My grandfather for example has owned about 5 different houses in Canada (selling and buying a different one each time, due to moving for work, etc.). He only made money off one of them and that was recently due to the housing prices going up. Otherwise he actively lost money on them.

Most people do not make money off houses. If you pay a 25 year mortgage by the end of the 25 years on average you will double the cost of the house. Not to mention all the maintenance costs. Generally in that time you will have to change a furnace or two, maybe a roof or two, etc. You may lose less money than renting, but you also may not. It really depends on the situation.

It is only in the last few years has your average person been really been making more than they put into it.

Don’t get me wrong I am not against homeownership, I am one myself (working to actively pay it off as fast as possible to avoid doubling the cost), but it isn’t the path to riches most seem to believe it is in this country.

Here in Vancouver, the house is almost immaterial, it is the land that holds the value. Right now, my house could burn down and if insurance refused to pay out, i would still make 4 times what I paid for it by selling just the land.

 

[Good2Golf]

Municipalities don't can’t turn people away.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Most people do not make money off houses. If you pay a 25 year mortgage by the end of the 25 years on average you will double the cost of the house. Not to mention all the maintenance costs. Generally in that time you will have to change a furnace or two, maybe a roof or two, etc. You may lose less money than renting, but you also may not. It really depends on the situation.

The critical result of ownership is not making money on the home, but owning one if your income is limited to OAS/GIS/CPP when you stop working. At that point, renting works a lot less well.

 

[YZT580]

Renting does have some pros. Your not locked into a area. Your rent is the max you will spend as opposed to a house where your mortgage payment is the minimum. In a lot of the larger cities your rent is less than the mortgage payments at this point.

Lots of businesses have bought into the renting type model, how many businesses choose to actively own things as opposed to renting/leasing them and having the maintenance as part of that contract? Very few companies try to keep everything in house anymore, its all about contracting out (i.e. renting) as much as possible.

Houses are depreciating assets unless people do maintenance on them. The only reason they are appreciating so much at the moment is due to the lack of supply (5.11 million needed to be built in the next 8 years, when the best Canada has ever done in that same span is 2 million).

My grandfather for example has owned about 5 different houses in Canada (selling and buying a different one each time, due to moving for work, etc.). He only made money off one of them and that was recently due to the housing prices going up. Otherwise he actively lost money on them.

Most people do not make money off houses. If you pay a 25 year mortgage by the end of the 25 years on average you will double the cost of the house. Not to mention all the maintenance costs. Generally in that time you will have to change a furnace or two, maybe a roof or two, etc. You may lose less money than renting, but you also may not. It really depends on the situation.

It is only in the last few years has your average person been really been making more than they put into it.

Don’t get me wrong I am not against homeownership, I am one myself (working to actively pay it off as fast as possible to avoid doubling the cost), but it isn’t the path to riches most seem to believe it is in this country.

agreed but it does work out to be a good way to have money for the sunset years. Most of us can't save, invest, and put kids through school at the same time as paying the rent. Having a mortgage payment is to my mind just a form of forced savings.

 

[brihard]

Nice thing about owning a house (and we have a condo just down the street as well) is that no matter what, my wife and I, our son, and my mom will have a roof overhead. That’s a pretty great safety net for whatever else happens.

 

[mariomike]

Flop house at Mavis and Derry. $600 month. Each.

Not much privacy. At least it's a clean, above the floor mattress, and not four bunk beds.

 

[Brad Sallows]

"Rooms to let for fifty cents"

 

[mariomike]

I don't think our slum lords are quite here, yet.

Wonder how much that top bunk would fetch?

 

[dimsum]

I don't think our slum lords are quite here, yet.

Wonder how much that top bunk would fetch?

View attachment 84499

Well that’s one way to stop someone from side-sleeping.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Not very far from the origins of the hangover there.

I am surprised no one has tried to do something like a Japanese bullet hotel with a storage closet nearby.

 

[mariomike]

Shows what can be done with a 300 square foot condo.

A young woman moved from Vancouver to Toronto and paid $465,000 for it back in 2021.

"I live in a 300-square-foot condo downtown. Here's how I've optimized the space"

Elise Yu’s $465,000 condo is equipped with a Murphy bed, a pull-down projector and a large carpet that creates an optical illusion

torontolife.com

I am surprised no one has tried to do something like a Japanese bullet hotel with a storage closet nearby.

Perhaps the creepiest of these peculiar Victorian sleeping arrangements, for those too poor to have a fixed place to sleep, were the four or five penny coffins. Thankfully they weren’t actually coffins.

 

[dimsum]

Shows what can be done with a 300 square foot condo.

A young woman moved from Vancouver to Toronto and paid $465,000 for it back in 2021.

"I live in a 300-square-foot condo downtown. Here's how I've optimized the space"

Elise Yu’s $465,000 condo is equipped with a Murphy bed, a pull-down projector and a large carpet that creates an optical illusion

torontolife.com

View attachment 84519

Not that I’m suggesting that this is a good idea, but a family living in a 500-600 sqft (at best) apartment is the norm in many places in Asia.

It’s pretty surprising how much you can pack into an apartment in HK.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Not that I’m suggesting that this is a good idea, but a family living in a 500-600 sqft (at best) apartment is the norm in many places in Asia.

It’s pretty surprising how much you can pack into an apartment in HK.

We need to address the missing middle

Ontario's Condos are Getting Smaller as Detached Homes Get Larger

As a sign of the times, Ontario’s condos are getting (even) smaller, while detached homes are getting larger, according to recent data from MPAC.

storeys.com

 

[Blackadder1916]

I am surprised no one has tried to do something like a Japanese bullet hotel with a storage closet nearby.