Updated Army Service Dress project

[dimsum]

Not at all.

If we were actually planning on doing that, we would have bought an actual Multicam derivative and made it cross compatible with the 100000+ items on the market for field use.

Instead we decided ton waste thousands on R&D to make a bespoke pattern that we "own", that will be double the price to make, and will take 10 years to fully implement.

True Canadian defence procurement in action.

I was more thinking of the “one pattern vice AR and TW”, but fair point.

Regimental alterations are the norm, not the exception in the CA. It’s merely a matter of planning for it. It's small potatoes when you're kitting an individual regiment, not the whole of the CA, just need to specify things in the SOR.

Also good point.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I was more thinking of the “one pattern vice AR and TW”, but fair point.

And that is probably the only thing it has going for it for the MCU side of things. The CCUE (whever it rolls out finally) will be better quality and meet the operational demands of the CA for years to come. The only sticking point for me is the short-sightedness of not going with a pattern closer to Multicam.

 

[dapaterson]

If the CAF writ large went to multicam then CANSOF would have to find a new uniform to be different.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

If the CAF writ large went to multicam then CANSOF would have to find a new uniform to be different.

CADPAT…
Or The old olive green…

 

[daftandbarmy]

Or The old olive green…

Like another battle tested army that's in the news alot these days...

 

[PuckChaser]

And that is probably the only thing it has going for it for the MCU side of things. The CCUE (whever it rolls out finally) will be better quality and meet the operational demands of the CA for years to come. The only sticking point for me is the short-sightedness of not going with a pattern closer to Multicam.

There's nothing wrong with a Canadian pattern. The issue, as always, is a funding problem. If we made a gigantic order to do full Bdes of clothing and equipment at the same time, our order would get prioritized. Instead we're stuck piece-mealing orders because we're woefully underfunded for literally every project.

To get us back on the actual DEU rails, it will be the same with this. Insufficient funding to cover demand as everyone wants the new stuff through clothing online, leaving mixed dress units and shortfalls in common sizes of both uniforms until we're fully switched over.

 

[Happy Guy]

I really hope not. We are switching to multi terrain CADPAT not because it is better but because it was beyond capacity of LCMMs and procurement officers to keep supply shelves stocked with two distinct sets of land operational clothing. We are not going to stay ahead by ratcheting up the quantity of tribally distinct uniforms for PRes egos.

This will probably happen, not in the immediate future, but some years down the road as each Corps/Service/Regiment wants have some unique identifier and preferably from public funding. The impetus will probably start from a Reg F or high profile Res F unit like the Ceremonial Guard, and if this request is approved then the flood gates will open. Things like: different colour forage caps (blue instead of khaki), buttons, tunic; trousers or sweaters; lanyards; cloth instead of metal Corps/Service/Regiment insignia; unique Corps/Service/Regiment rank insignia like the Arty or Foot Guards; riding crops for Calvary Regts; swagger sticks; summer white Patrol Dress uniform; and so forth.

 

[dimsum]

This will probably happen, not in the immediate future, but some years down the road as each Corps/Service/Regiment wants have some unique identifier and preferably from public funding. The impetus will probably start from a Reg F or high profile Res F unit like the Ceremonial Guard, and if this request is approved then the flood gates will open. Things like: different colour forage caps (blue instead of khaki), buttons, tunic; trousers or sweaters; lanyards; cloth instead of metal Corps/Service/Regiment insignia; unique Corps/Service/Regiment rank insignia like the Arty or Foot Guards; riding crops for Calvary Regts; swagger sticks; summer white Patrol Dress uniform; and so forth.

RCCS collar dogs enter the chat

Too soon?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

RCCS collar dogs enter the chat

Too soon?

That wound is still fresh, friend.

I see the C&E Branch losing that sacred cow under this new program, as the Army SM reiterated that CA owns the intellectual property for our accoutrments.

 

[FJAG]

Regimental alterations are the norm, not the exception in the CA. Its merely a matter of planning for it. It's small potatoes when you're kitting an individual regiment, not the whole of the CA, just need to specify things in the SOR.

It's our European heritage. Most of the European nations have significant regimental alterations in their dress (some even combat) uniforms. And its spread far and wide.

Each a unique uniform within a different army and yet uniform within each unit. Why should Canadians all look "blandly uniform."

I'm all for regimental distinction but am against skittle parades where within a subunit you have individuals with major uniform differences which make them stick out like a sore thumb. It goes against my Teutonic sense of order.

 

[MacNav63]

Well, the ranks were different….

Except for the odd decision to copy the wide black ring worn by US Army general's on their service dress back in the day, only in gold. When the CA reverted to unification rank insignia for generals after pips and crowns were reintroduced I could sort of see the logic in alignment of the maple leaves with the US star system, but why go back to the gold ring since it was no longer even common with the other services? And will they keep it on the new service dress now that the US has, I believe, dispensed with it on their new uniforms?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

When the CA reverted to unification rank insignia for generals after pips and crowns were reintroduced I could sort of see the logic in alignment of the maple leaves with the US star system, but why go back to the gold ring since it was no longer even common with the other services? And will they keep it on the new service dress now that the US has, I believe, dispensed with it on their new uniforms?

So in 2014, they did revert back to pre-unification for the GOs in the CA.

Apparently, the urban legend is that a Brigader wasn't recognized as such because it was the transitory period and some young troop didn't pay compliments. It was reverted back in short order with maple leaves and lasagna braids... just with Gorgets now.

 

[dimsum]

Except for the odd decision to copy the wide black ring worn by US Army general's on their service dress back in the day, only in gold. When the CA reverted to unification rank insignia for generals after pips and crowns were reintroduced I could sort of see the logic in alignment of the maple leaves with the US star system, but why go back to the gold ring since it was no longer even common with the other services? And will they keep it on the new service dress now that the US has, I believe, dispensed with it on their new uniforms?

Hey, at least CA and RCN GOFOs don’t have their ranks on both sleeves and shoulders on their tunic for some unknown reason.

Looks at RCAF

 

[FSTO]

Hey, at least CA and RCN GOFOs don’t have their ranks on both sleeves and shoulders on their tunic for some unknown reason.

Looks at RCAF

The RCAF generals should just wear the leather jacket with their too tight flight suits.

 

[dimsum]

The RCAF generals should just wear the leather jacket with their too tight flight suits.

I don’t think RCAF folks would complain too much.

The RCN and CA folks standing next to them might

 

[markppcli]

On that note, any indication if the Guards regiments will have different button groupings on the new uniform?

I’m sure this is occupying an incredible amount of otherwise useful man hours.

 

[Remius]

I’m sure this is occupying an incredible amount of otherwise useful man hours.

It isn’t.

 

[FSTO]

I don’t think RCAF folks would complain too much.

The RCN and CA folks standing next to them might

They are Generals, they should get the jackets custom made because I have yet to see one that doesn't look like its 2 sizes too big.

 

[Winds]

If the CAF writ large went to multicam then CANSOF would have to find a new uniform to be different.

Or perhaps SOF adopted Multicam not to be different but to be more uniform in appearance. Previously, SOF operators wore a hodge podge of whatever off-the-shelf uniform pieces best suited their current task, in a variety of mismatched colours and patterns. By switching to Multicam, all of a sudden, their equipment loadouts were all in a single pattern... even Arc'teryx makes uniforms in Multicam.

 

[Happy Guy]

It's our European heritage. Most of the European nations have significant regimental alterations in their dress (some even combat) uniforms. And its spread far and wide.

Each a unique uniform within a different army and yet uniform within each unit. Why should Canadians all look "blandly uniform."

I'm all for regimental distinction but am against skittle parades where within a subunit you have individuals with major uniform differences which make them stick out like a sore thumb. It goes against my Teutonic sense of order.

But NO CAPES !!!!