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She’s going to roll and plead.
A Deeply Fractured US
- Thread starter BeyondTheNow
- Start date
She’s not presently indicted in the federal Jan 6th case. She’s unindicted co-conspirator number 3 in that one. While some here have objected to speculation about who might flip, I think we can safely assume Jack Smith will keep tugging at these threads to turn coconspirators into cooperating witnesses. I won’t be surprised if we see some of the rest indicted soon in Washington.
Sidney Powell sold herself, now she has to sell others out of self preservation. Rats and ships…
kkwd
Sr. Member
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Isn't that the way the system is designed, leveraging one against the other? It seems to me that helps a prosecutor do their job. There is nothing like a person involved in events to testify against others.
Here is a piece about federal plea bargaining.
Article Link
Completely agreed, at least in the case of the US (it happens here, it’s just a lot harder to pull the levers). I guess the takeaway is if you’re absolutely determined to do criminal conspiracy, make sure you’re not the one at the top, and be ready to make a quick exit while there’s still a relatively soft landing.
kkwd
Sr. Member
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Thank you for that. I always look forward to your thoughts on these subjects.
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God I love that scene. “Shorty was a cop”Well I’ll be - he didn’t actually intend to “drain the swamp”??!!?!!?!
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This incident was discussed in, "US Presidential Election 2020".
Update in today's news,
apnews.com
Update in today's news,
Texas city settles lawsuit over police response to Trump supporters surrounding Biden bus in 2020
A Texas city has agreed to a $175,000 settlement in a lawsuit brought by four passengers on one of President Joe Biden’s campaign buses in 2020 that was surrounded by a caravan of Donald Trump supporters.
apnews.com
Another update: a day after Powell’s guilty plea to misdemeanours, co-accused and former Trump lawyer Kenneth Chesebro has now plead guilty to a felony count of conspiracy to file false documents relating to the fake electors scheme.
Remember when I said yesterday that there would be more guilty pleas, with a diminishing rate of return? Exactly what we’ve seen here. And now the prosecution has two of Donald Trump’s lawyers pleading guilty and avoiding jail time in exchange for become State’s witnesses. Also notable that Powell and Chesebro participated in quite different facets of the larger overall conspiracy.
Next I suspect we are a number of the fake electors plead guilty for reduced sentences. They may not have as much to offer the prosecution, but will recognize they’re well and truly up a creek now. Classic ‘prisoner’s dilemma’ playing out in real time.
www.democracydocket.com
Remember when I said yesterday that there would be more guilty pleas, with a diminishing rate of return? Exactly what we’ve seen here. And now the prosecution has two of Donald Trump’s lawyers pleading guilty and avoiding jail time in exchange for become State’s witnesses. Also notable that Powell and Chesebro participated in quite different facets of the larger overall conspiracy.
Next I suspect we are a number of the fake electors plead guilty for reduced sentences. They may not have as much to offer the prosecution, but will recognize they’re well and truly up a creek now. Classic ‘prisoner’s dilemma’ playing out in real time.
Kenneth Chesebro Pleads Guilty in Fulton County Election Subversion Case
Read more here.
www.democracydocket.com
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I had my memory cells jarred today.
Once upon a time, in a land far, far away an American presidential candidate campaigned successfully on no more foreign involvements. To be precise he declared that the US of A was out of the nation-building business.
www.theatlantic.com
Then a bunch of middle eastern gentleman left their seats and flew themselves into the WTC and the Pentagon.
The cry went up. "Something must be done!"
And lo and behold the US of A was back in the nation-building business.
In 2007 some bankers overplayed their hands and collapsed the monetary system disgruntling a bunch of the international peasantry. In the US, by 2009, the disgruntled rallied around something called the Tea Party Movement. Much to the disdain on late night hosts who preferred to refer to it as the Tea Bag Movement.
en.wikipedia.org
In 2000 Americans were done with being the World's policeman. They hired a man who promised to get out of the game. They rallied around him when the Towers fell but after bleeding for 15 years they had had enough and looked for someone to get them and their kids back home.
In 2007 the Americans felt abused by government and bankers when they were losing their jobs and houses while bankers were made whole because they were too big to fail. They expressed there disgust by organizing and supporting the Tea Party Movement only to be laughed at and denigrated. Few friends were made.
Concurrent with this activity US workers saw their jobs threatened by, first the Canadians and Mexicans, then the Japanese (remember the 90's classic "Die Hard" and the Japanese employer) and then the Chinese.
It really is too easy to blame the current disconnect between unemployed workers and decision makers in Washington and Wall Street on one man.
A 2003 article.
www.theatlantic.com
Hope disappeared a long, long time ago....
Once upon a time, in a land far, far away an American presidential candidate campaigned successfully on no more foreign involvements. To be precise he declared that the US of A was out of the nation-building business.
Not Exactly a Bush Flip-Flop
Under Bush, the United States apparently still does nation-building—just not with the U.S. military
www.theatlantic.com
The cry went up. "Something must be done!"
And lo and behold the US of A was back in the nation-building business.
In 2007 some bankers overplayed their hands and collapsed the monetary system disgruntling a bunch of the international peasantry. In the US, by 2009, the disgruntled rallied around something called the Tea Party Movement. Much to the disdain on late night hosts who preferred to refer to it as the Tea Bag Movement.
Tea Party movement - Wikipedia
In 2000 Americans were done with being the World's policeman. They hired a man who promised to get out of the game. They rallied around him when the Towers fell but after bleeding for 15 years they had had enough and looked for someone to get them and their kids back home.
In 2007 the Americans felt abused by government and bankers when they were losing their jobs and houses while bankers were made whole because they were too big to fail. They expressed there disgust by organizing and supporting the Tea Party Movement only to be laughed at and denigrated. Few friends were made.
Concurrent with this activity US workers saw their jobs threatened by, first the Canadians and Mexicans, then the Japanese (remember the 90's classic "Die Hard" and the Japanese employer) and then the Chinese.
It really is too easy to blame the current disconnect between unemployed workers and decision makers in Washington and Wall Street on one man.
A 2003 article.
Why the Jobs Went to China—And How to Get Them Back
If the yuan were revalued the Mack companies could start making computer servers again
www.theatlantic.com
Hope disappeared a long, long time ago....
FJAG
Army.ca Legend
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It wasn't new - its gone on for a long time.
United States non-interventionism - Wikipedia
It comes and goes in cycles in between states of imperialism and interventionism.
Another guilty plea.
Another domino falls in Georgia. Jenna Ellis, another member of Trump’s legal team, has taken a felony plea deal to falsely testifying in front of State officials. She’ll get probation, a fine, and the ability to clean her record as a first offender if she stays out of trouble going forward. The deal comes with a cooperation agreement.
Four out of 14 defendants have now plead guilty.
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/6VUB6FKHBVNCXBWG45SCK5SPOQ.jpg)
www.reuters.com
Four out of 14 defendants have now plead guilty.
Former Trump lawyer Ellis pleads guilty in Georgia, could testify against him
Another former lawyer for Donald Trump, Jenna Ellis, pleaded guilty on Tuesday to helping the former U.S. president's efforts to overturn his 2020 election defeat in the state of Georgia and agreed to testify against Trump if called upon.
www.reuters.com
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…so nine more to plead?
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You mean 'alleged conspiracy' right?Another update: a day after Powell’s guilty plea to misdemeanours, co-accused and former Trump lawyer Kenneth Chesebro has now plead guilty to a felony count of conspiracy to file false documents relating to the fake electors scheme.
Remember when I said yesterday that there would be more guilty pleas, with a diminishing rate of return? Exactly what we’ve seen here. And now the prosecution has two of Donald Trump’s lawyers pleading guilty and avoiding jail time in exchange for become State’s witnesses. Also notable that Powell and Chesebro participated in quite different facets of the larger overall conspiracy.
Next I suspect we are a number of the fake electors plead guilty for reduced sentences. They may not have as much to offer the prosecution, but will recognize they’re well and truly up a creek now. Classic ‘prisoner’s dilemma’ playing out in real time.
Kenneth Chesebro Pleads Guilty in Fulton County Election Subversion Case
Read more here.
No. The existence of a criminal conspiracy is now cemented in at least one guilty plea. What remains alleged is the specifics of certain fact sets as they pertain to certain co-accused who remain before the courts.
The car got stolen and burned. The guy who smashed the window and unlocked it told us that already. That’s not alleged. What’s alleged is who was behind the wheel, who had the jerry can of gas, and who threw the match.
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
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Nothing is cemented by a guilty plea in the US, particularly one to much less than the full weight of charges. It's well-established that the US plea-bargaining system moves some people to plead out simply to avoid cost, stress, and a risk that a jury will throw a prosecutor a bone by finding guilt on one or two charges amidst a barrage of charges.
The only way to cement anything is to go to trial and prove it in court.
The only way to cement anything is to go to trial and prove it in court.
Given that this entire part of the discussion is about criminal prosecutions, yes it is, in every way that matters, subject to the limitations I described. A conviction via guilty plea constitutes something being proven in court. It’s a conviction every bit as meaningful and consequential in every way as one delivered by a jury or a judge.
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Trump is innocent until proven guilty by the courts. Just because someone else flips and pleads guilty, whether true, false or to get a better deal, is not on Trump. Not until he has his day and his attorneys have a chance to exonerate him and question the floppers allegations in open court. Until his judgement comes down, his involvement into whatever they, the media and the prosecution say, is only alleged. Otherwise, as you contend, Trump needs no trial. Get a bunch of floppers to say he's guilty and it's all done.
