Hamas invaded Israel 2023

[Quirky]

Excuse the rant. But you need a Palestinian Canadian voice on this thread every now and then.

Ya we all need to be reminded why Israeli military action is justified….

 

[McG]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1780911732208115866

 

[Kirkhill]

Israel has (Again) won the war that Hamas started. Yet you think Israel should surrender.

 

[Brad Sallows]

1. 1967 borders,
2. Right of return,
3. East Jerusalem as the Capital of Palestine, and
4. Dismantlement of illegal settlements

0. Demilitarization of Iran. Necessary for the other 4, and about as likely as 1, 2, and 3.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Meanwhile on X, I have apparently been a bad boy, although I not sure exactly how?

 

[Brad Sallows]

In fact, the "Golden Age" for Jews was when they lived under Islamic rule (9 & 10th century) in Muslim Spain.

Whether or not that's true is irrelevant. Israel may be a colonial project by your lights, but here's the reality from the point of view of some Jews: they were nearly exterminated in much of Europe, and their Arab neighbours tried repeatedly to do something that might have ended up as ethnic cleansing. Aims along those lines are still laid down in writing and repeated by spokespeople, and the collective UN is essentially "three monkeys" about it while finding all sorts of reasons to admonish Israel. There isn't going to be another Golden Age for Jews under Islamic rule, so there isn't going to be Islamic rule over Jews.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

In fact, the "Golden Age" for Jews was when they lived under Islamic rule (9 & 10th century) in Muslim Spain. Then when the Church & Christian forces came (Reconquista), Jews were forced to either convert or leave. Many were expelled to Muslim regions (Ottoman regions and Morroco), also known as Sephardic Jews.

It was certainly the best it got for sometime, but be under no illusion they were 2nd class citizens and they knew it. Jews in that period provided a unique service to their Moorish masters, that was the abilty to lend money and conduct business in a non-Halal way on behalf of the Moors, allowing them not to break their religious obligations. One Jew did become a significant advisor to the Sultan there. A testimony of the survival abilty of the Jewish culture while under oppression from all sides.

 

[TacticalTea]

A testimony of the survival abilty of the Jewish culture while under oppression from all sides.

That's what makes them so successful in all endeavours to this day.

 

[lenaitch]

Guys, my phone is really starting to run low on space from all the screenshots I'm taking of all of the openly genocidal and ethnic cleansing comments in this thread!!

Making book on us?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Making book on us?

Even his phone is a victim.

 

[Good2Golf]

Excuse the rant. But you need a Palestinian Canadian voice on this thread every now and then.

Meh…my Gazan friend I did post-grad with cursed Hamas right from 2006-2007, and told me that it would result in nothing but misery for honest Gazans. He was beyond happy when he was finally able to bring his parents to Canada permanently in 2009. He had far harsher words for Egyptians than he ever did for Israelis. He told me repeatedly that any Gazan who tells me that Hamas has their best interests at heart, is a liar.

 

[Lumber]

Guys, my phone is really starting to run low on space from all the screenshots I'm taking of all of the openly genocidal and ethnic cleansing comments in this thread!!

Hear me out, and take it from a Palestinian, the solution is simple but it requires the will of the international world (mainly the US) to pressure the Israelis (and Palestinians) to abide by international law and all of the UN resolutions that Israel has been ignoring.
And they're mainly 4:

1. 1967 borders,
2. Right of return,
3. East Jerusalem as the Capital of Palestine, and
4. Dismantlement of illegal settlements

The moment you do that, all Palestinian resistance movements will cease to exist organically...

The really interesting thing about this debate is how difficult it has become for the moderate middle. There are lot of people who, before October 7th (I'm one of them) were "pro-Palestinian" in that we all scratch our heads wondering "Israel, what the fuck are you doing with these settlers, just fucking stop already, the WB is not yours." After October 7th, we still hold that view and want a peaceful resolution to the overall problem, very much in line with those 4 things you list above. However, we are also realists. What Hamas did on October 7th created an existential crisis for Israel, and we fully support the war to destroy Hamas, as much as it it pains to see so many civilian casualties. For those who are more vehemently pro-Israel, our continued criticism of Israeli settling can make us appear anti-Israel in general, and to those who are vehemently pro-Palestinian, our support of the Israeli war effort, is well, seen as genocidal.

And sure, I have no quarrel with Israel uprooting Hamas, go right ahead... But it's clear that Israel is not a war with Hamas, it's at war with all Palestinians with over 30,000 killed and Gaza levelled (in Gaza and the West Bank).

Did you hear that the Gazan health ministry was finally starting to re-asses their casualty numbers? Apparently 12,000 of the reported deaths do not have enough information to officially substantiate them as actual casualties, which (perhaps temporarily) reduces the civilian casualty figure to 22,000. Further, the Gazan health ministry/Hamas as refused to report "combatant deaths", but western intelligence estimates that approximately 13,000 Hamas fighters have been killed (I fully welcome an estimate from a non-western source). So, that would put the civilian to combatant death ration at almost 1:1.5. Look, all civilian casualties are bad, but for a war fought in mostly urban areas, this is an extremely "low" ratio. According to the UN, in most major conflicts, the ratio is on average, 1:9. This is why I get so pissed off when I hear people say that "30,000 civilian were massacred" (which implies both scale, and intent).

It's really a red herring blaming everything on Hamas. Hamas only came to power in 2007. What was the excuse for 40 years between 1967 and 2007? The PLO?
The PLO laid down its armed resistance approach in 1993 when they signed the Oslo accords, and what was the result? Over 750,000 extremist jewish settlers and illegal settlements in the west Bank.

You're right in that this problem started long ago. However, the current crisis in general, and this thread in specific, is about what is happening in Gaza, not the WB, and when it comes to what is happening in Gaza, and how we got here, its is 100% on Hamas.

This has nothing to do with Jews or Judaism (as much as Israel would like to be). There tens of thousands of anti-zionist Jews all over the world (if not more).
And please note that the middle east is not part of the Jewish-European narrative & the Jewish-Muslim context is completely different. They do not feel historical guilt towards Jewish minorities.

I agree; please go tell any of the pro-Palestinian North Americans and Europeans (whether they are white or not) that you know to stop blaming all Jewish people.

Excuse the rant. But you need a Palestinian Canadian voice on this thread every now and then.

I, for one, do appreciate having your perspective here.

But please, for the sake of decorum, answer the bloody question that you keep getting asked.

 

[PuckChaser]

A member has had a sanction applied and is welcome to stay once their time out is completed if they are willing to debate in good faith. Threatening doxing and posting screenshots of PMs publically fly in the face of rational debate and jump head first into trolling territory.

- Milnet.ca Staff

 

[Jarnhamar]

There are lot of people who, before October 7th (I'm one of them) were "pro-Palestinian" in that we all scratch our heads wondering "Israel, what the fuck are you doing with these settlers, just fucking stop already, the WB is not yours."

Think you nailed it. I was definitely pro-Palestinian.

October 7th showed the world how psychotic Hamas was, and showed how blurred the line is between Hamas and 'innocent' Palestinians.

Looks like this guys captors are trying to protect the victim FROM the crowd of Palestinians. Apparently the husband, wife, 1 year old and 4 year old are dead.

Palestinians have plenty reason to be super angry at Israel. If Palestinians are ready to murder Israeli prisoners by trying to chop off their heads with shovels then they need to be ready to get treated like people who chop prisoners heads off with shovels.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The really interesting thing about this debate is how difficult it has become for the moderate middle.

I think that sentence would make an excellent epitaph for everything that's happened globally over the last decade or so, sadly

 

[TacticalTea]

BREAKING

 

[jackamela]

BREAKING
View attachment 84594

Could be something; or it may simply be another misfiring Hamas rocket blowing up the hospital or school they are launching it from.

Their useful idiots in the West will have to wait and see which before deciding if they are outraged, or indifferent.

My hunch is that Israel will look to put Iran back in its box before finishing off Hamas.

 

[TacticalTea]

Could be something; or it may simply be another misfiring Hamas rocket blowing up the hospital or school they are launching it from.

Their useful idiots in the West will have to wait and see which before deciding if they are outraged, or indifferent.

My hunch is that Israel will look to put Iran back in its box before finishing off Hamas.

I was doing a bit of comedy. There's nothing new about a cloud of smoke in a warzone hehehe

 

[McG]

So what will be done to fix the situation?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1782186814058504419

 

[McG]

So, what are you doing about it?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1782124748320702840