Air-Force.ca Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:The Combat Arms

2006-08-11T14:15:38Z

Heisenberg:

Assuming we will follow precedence in such postings, what do we do with the artillery? The RCHA takes precedence over the Armd branch, who in turn take precedence over the RCA.

We should try to ensure a common standard.
Dapaterson

*As Engineers have precedence over Infantry.....

* Then comes the question of who are Cbt Arms, CS and CSS.....In some circles Cbt Arms are only Armour and Infantry, with Arty and Engr, being CS, and all the rest falling into CSS.
George 11:40 EDT 25 May 2006

I would propose to add sometghing like this:

''"Until the mid ‘60s the Canadian Army was divided into: Arms and Services. The division mattered in some areas, especially individual training (largely in leadership training) for officers and non-commissioned officers, and promotion examinations and staff college selection for officers.

The arms were: armour; artillery, engineers, signals and infantry.

All the remainder were services. Within some services - medical, dental, chaplains, legal and general list officers (such as psychologist/personnel selection) - officers were ‘specialists’ and were selected, trained, promoted, paid and employed according to rules agreed with their professional governing bodies.

A ‘combat arms’ group was created in the early ‘60s when the Royal Canadian Armoured Corps School and the Royal Canadian School of Infantry (both in Camp Borden, Ontario) were merged into the Combat Arms School – which, soon after, moved to Camp Gagetown. This coincided with the reintroduction of mechanized infantry into the Canadian Army and the increased importance of e.g. tank/infantry cooperation. Amongst the first innovations of the Combat Arms School was to merge the RCAC’s squadron commander’s course and the RCIC’s company commander’s course into a combat team commander’s course.

After the creation of the Canadian Forces and the reordering of branches in the mid/late ‘60s the engineers and signals (now communications) groups struggled with their roles and were dropped from the list of arms.

In the ‘90s the current structure was created: the combat arms were expanded to include the army’s engineers (who ‘won’ their battle with professional standards and their role in the army much earlier than their signals confreres); army signals (not the whole communications branch) were welcomed back as a combat support arm and the army portion of the military police and intelligence branches were ‘promoted’ to combat support arm status, too. The services were re-designated as combat service support arms."''

Platoons, Brigades, Divisions Oh My!

2006-05-22T18:32:52Z

Heisenberg: /* xxx - Corps */

Here is a general descriptor of how the army is structured. Don't get too caught in the numbers though. Sections will vary in size. Platoons may be short sections (or may have extra sections). Regular Force infantry battalions only have three rifle companies these days (as opposed to the traditional four) and many reserve regiments only have one company.

Note that generally the "rule of three" gives you a rough estimate of what an element can be broken down in to (ie: 3 sections to a platoon, 3 platoons to a company, 3 companies to a battalion, etc, etc). However, that rule of three typically breaks down when you try to apply it to support elements or combined arms groups.

The dot/line/x system is the NATO standard designation used in conjuction with map symbols.

== . - Detachment, Crew or fireteam ==
Two to four soldiers. This could be a vehicle crew, a sniper team, an engineer firing party, or something else which is tiny.

== .. - Section ==
A section normally numbers about 8-10 men and is commanded by a Sgt with a MCpl as second in command.

== ... - Platoon or Troop ==
A platoon is a basic building block of sub-unit organizations. They are headed by a junior officer (2Lt to Capt) and number about 30 to 45 members. They consist of 3 or 4 sections (depending on the Arm). A Tank Troop would consist of 4 battle tanks.

== l - Company ==
A Company is considered a sub-unit and is the building block of "unit" sized organizations. They are headed by Majors and consist of a headquarders and 3 to 4 platoons (or troops). An Artillery sub-unit is refered to as a Battery, and the Armoured, Engineers and Signalls refer to thier sub-units as squadrons.

== ll - Batallion ==
The Battalion is the standard sized "unit" of the Army. The Artillery, Armoured, Engineers, and Signals refer to thier units as Regiments. Tactical Aviation refers to its units as squadrons. Units are commanded by a commanding officer (typically a LCol). In some rare cases, smaller organizations may be given the designation of "unit" (but they would still use the map designator of thier smaller size).

As for the Infantry Battalion structure, it's usually 3 to 4 rifle companies in addition to combat support company which used to comprise of 1 x mortar platoon, 1x Recce Platoon, 1 x Anti-Armour Platoon, 1 x Pioneer Platoon (things like mortars and pioneers have been phased out of the current structure). There's also a HQ company which has a Battalion CP, Int Detachment, MP Detachment and a Sigs Platoon. There's a Logistical Company comprising of Battalion stores, payroll, maintenance, cooks and the like.

== lll - Regiment ==
Common for Soviet and WWII German forces in which a Regiment was a fighting formation. A Regiment typically consists of three to four battalions under the command of a Col.

(This should not be confused with the term "regiment" as it is used in commonwealth armies. Those Canadian regiments which are larger than one unit are still not formations. PPCLI, RCR, R22R, RNBR, etc will never deploy under a regimental headquarters. They will always be battalions as part of a Bde. For this reason you won't see Canadian units marked as Regiments on a map. The same is true of most of our allies.)

== x - Brigade ==
A Brigade typically consists of three to four battalions under the command of a BGen.

In Canada we have Brigade Groups, which are slightly larger than brigades, and are composed of the following:
* 1x Headquarters / Signal Squadron
* 3 x Inf Battalions
* 1x Armoured Regiment
* 1x Field Artillery Regiment (but when the brigade is part of a division the artillery may be brigaded)
* 1x Engineer Regiment (but when the brigade is part of a division the engineers may be brigaded)
* 1x Service Battalion (but technically not part of the Bde)
* 1x Field Ambulance unit (but technically not part of the Bde)
* 1x Military Police platoon

(The term Brigade Group is often used to designate a combined arms Brigade. These formations do not require a divisional support structure, and can be fought independent of a higher formation.)

== xx - Division ==
2-3 brigades, plus division troops (reconnaissance, artillery, engineers, signals, aviation, medical and logistics (including military police)) commanded by a Major General

== xxx - Corps ==
2+ divisions, plus corps troops (reconnaissance, artillery, engineers, signals, information/electronic warfare, aviation, medical and logistics (including military police))commanded by a Lieutenant General

== xxxx - Army ==
2+ corps

== xxxxx - Army Group or Theater Command ==
2+ Armies

== Return to Land Forces Command ==
[[Land Forces Command]]

Platoons, Brigades, Divisions Oh My!

2006-05-22T18:32:19Z

Heisenberg: /* xxxxx - Army Group or Theater Command */

Here is a general descriptor of how the army is structured. Don't get too caught in the numbers though. Sections will vary in size. Platoons may be short sections (or may have extra sections). Regular Force infantry battalions only have three rifle companies these days (as opposed to the traditional four) and many reserve regiments only have one company.

Note that generally the "rule of three" gives you a rough estimate of what an element can be broken down in to (ie: 3 sections to a platoon, 3 platoons to a company, 3 companies to a battalion, etc, etc). However, that rule of three typically breaks down when you try to apply it to support elements or combined arms groups.

The dot/line/x system is the NATO standard designation used in conjuction with map symbols.

== . - Detachment, Crew or fireteam ==
Two to four soldiers. This could be a vehicle crew, a sniper team, an engineer firing party, or something else which is tiny.

== .. - Section ==
A section normally numbers about 8-10 men and is commanded by a Sgt with a MCpl as second in command.

== ... - Platoon or Troop ==
A platoon is a basic building block of sub-unit organizations. They are headed by a junior officer (2Lt to Capt) and number about 30 to 45 members. They consist of 3 or 4 sections (depending on the Arm). A Tank Troop would consist of 4 battle tanks.

== l - Company ==
A Company is considered a sub-unit and is the building block of "unit" sized organizations. They are headed by Majors and consist of a headquarders and 3 to 4 platoons (or troops). An Artillery sub-unit is refered to as a Battery, and the Armoured, Engineers and Signalls refer to thier sub-units as squadrons.

== ll - Batallion ==
The Battalion is the standard sized "unit" of the Army. The Artillery, Armoured, Engineers, and Signals refer to thier units as Regiments. Tactical Aviation refers to its units as squadrons. Units are commanded by a commanding officer (typically a LCol). In some rare cases, smaller organizations may be given the designation of "unit" (but they would still use the map designator of thier smaller size).

As for the Infantry Battalion structure, it's usually 3 to 4 rifle companies in addition to combat support company which used to comprise of 1 x mortar platoon, 1x Recce Platoon, 1 x Anti-Armour Platoon, 1 x Pioneer Platoon (things like mortars and pioneers have been phased out of the current structure). There's also a HQ company which has a Battalion CP, Int Detachment, MP Detachment and a Sigs Platoon. There's a Logistical Company comprising of Battalion stores, payroll, maintenance, cooks and the like.

== lll - Regiment ==
Common for Soviet and WWII German forces in which a Regiment was a fighting formation. A Regiment typically consists of three to four battalions under the command of a Col.

(This should not be confused with the term "regiment" as it is used in commonwealth armies. Those Canadian regiments which are larger than one unit are still not formations. PPCLI, RCR, R22R, RNBR, etc will never deploy under a regimental headquarters. They will always be battalions as part of a Bde. For this reason you won't see Canadian units marked as Regiments on a map. The same is true of most of our allies.)

== x - Brigade ==
A Brigade typically consists of three to four battalions under the command of a BGen.

In Canada we have Brigade Groups, which are slightly larger than brigades, and are composed of the following:
* 1x Headquarters / Signal Squadron
* 3 x Inf Battalions
* 1x Armoured Regiment
* 1x Field Artillery Regiment (but when the brigade is part of a division the artillery may be brigaded)
* 1x Engineer Regiment (but when the brigade is part of a division the engineers may be brigaded)
* 1x Service Battalion (but technically not part of the Bde)
* 1x Field Ambulance unit (but technically not part of the Bde)
* 1x Military Police platoon

(The term Brigade Group is often used to designate a combined arms Brigade. These formations do not require a divisional support structure, and can be fought independent of a higher formation.)

== xx - Division ==
2-3 brigades, plus division troops (reconnaissance, artillery, engineers, signals, aviation, medical and logistics (including military police)) commanded by a Major General

== xxx - Corps ==
2+ divisions, plus corps troops (reconnaissance, artillery, engineers, signals, electronic warfare, aviation, medical and logistics (including military police))commanded by a Lieutenant General

== xxxx - Army ==
2+ corps

== xxxxx - Army Group or Theater Command ==
2+ Armies

== Return to Land Forces Command ==
[[Land Forces Command]]

Platoons, Brigades, Divisions Oh My!

2006-05-22T18:31:30Z

Heisenberg: /* xxx - Corps */

Here is a general descriptor of how the army is structured. Don't get too caught in the numbers though. Sections will vary in size. Platoons may be short sections (or may have extra sections). Regular Force infantry battalions only have three rifle companies these days (as opposed to the traditional four) and many reserve regiments only have one company.

Note that generally the "rule of three" gives you a rough estimate of what an element can be broken down in to (ie: 3 sections to a platoon, 3 platoons to a company, 3 companies to a battalion, etc, etc). However, that rule of three typically breaks down when you try to apply it to support elements or combined arms groups.

The dot/line/x system is the NATO standard designation used in conjuction with map symbols.

== . - Detachment, Crew or fireteam ==
Two to four soldiers. This could be a vehicle crew, a sniper team, an engineer firing party, or something else which is tiny.

== .. - Section ==
A section normally numbers about 8-10 men and is commanded by a Sgt with a MCpl as second in command.

== ... - Platoon or Troop ==
A platoon is a basic building block of sub-unit organizations. They are headed by a junior officer (2Lt to Capt) and number about 30 to 45 members. They consist of 3 or 4 sections (depending on the Arm). A Tank Troop would consist of 4 battle tanks.

== l - Company ==
A Company is considered a sub-unit and is the building block of "unit" sized organizations. They are headed by Majors and consist of a headquarders and 3 to 4 platoons (or troops). An Artillery sub-unit is refered to as a Battery, and the Armoured, Engineers and Signalls refer to thier sub-units as squadrons.

== ll - Batallion ==
The Battalion is the standard sized "unit" of the Army. The Artillery, Armoured, Engineers, and Signals refer to thier units as Regiments. Tactical Aviation refers to its units as squadrons. Units are commanded by a commanding officer (typically a LCol). In some rare cases, smaller organizations may be given the designation of "unit" (but they would still use the map designator of thier smaller size).

As for the Infantry Battalion structure, it's usually 3 to 4 rifle companies in addition to combat support company which used to comprise of 1 x mortar platoon, 1x Recce Platoon, 1 x Anti-Armour Platoon, 1 x Pioneer Platoon (things like mortars and pioneers have been phased out of the current structure). There's also a HQ company which has a Battalion CP, Int Detachment, MP Detachment and a Sigs Platoon. There's a Logistical Company comprising of Battalion stores, payroll, maintenance, cooks and the like.

== lll - Regiment ==
Common for Soviet and WWII German forces in which a Regiment was a fighting formation. A Regiment typically consists of three to four battalions under the command of a Col.

(This should not be confused with the term "regiment" as it is used in commonwealth armies. Those Canadian regiments which are larger than one unit are still not formations. PPCLI, RCR, R22R, RNBR, etc will never deploy under a regimental headquarters. They will always be battalions as part of a Bde. For this reason you won't see Canadian units marked as Regiments on a map. The same is true of most of our allies.)

== x - Brigade ==
A Brigade typically consists of three to four battalions under the command of a BGen.

In Canada we have Brigade Groups, which are slightly larger than brigades, and are composed of the following:
* 1x Headquarters / Signal Squadron
* 3 x Inf Battalions
* 1x Armoured Regiment
* 1x Field Artillery Regiment (but when the brigade is part of a division the artillery may be brigaded)
* 1x Engineer Regiment (but when the brigade is part of a division the engineers may be brigaded)
* 1x Service Battalion (but technically not part of the Bde)
* 1x Field Ambulance unit (but technically not part of the Bde)
* 1x Military Police platoon

(The term Brigade Group is often used to designate a combined arms Brigade. These formations do not require a divisional support structure, and can be fought independent of a higher formation.)

== xx - Division ==
2-3 brigades, plus division troops (reconnaissance, artillery, engineers, signals, aviation, medical and logistics (including military police)) commanded by a Major General

== xxx - Corps ==
2+ divisions, plus corps troops (reconnaissance, artillery, engineers, signals, electronic warfare, aviation, medical and logistics (including military police))commanded by a Lieutenant General

== xxxx - Army ==
2+ corps

== xxxxx - Army Group or Theater Command ==
2+ Armies

== Return to Land Forces Command ==
[[Land Forces Command]]

Platoons, Brigades, Divisions Oh My!

2006-05-22T18:30:48Z

Heisenberg: /* xx - Division */

Here is a general descriptor of how the army is structured. Don't get too caught in the numbers though. Sections will vary in size. Platoons may be short sections (or may have extra sections). Regular Force infantry battalions only have three rifle companies these days (as opposed to the traditional four) and many reserve regiments only have one company.

Note that generally the "rule of three" gives you a rough estimate of what an element can be broken down in to (ie: 3 sections to a platoon, 3 platoons to a company, 3 companies to a battalion, etc, etc). However, that rule of three typically breaks down when you try to apply it to support elements or combined arms groups.

The dot/line/x system is the NATO standard designation used in conjuction with map symbols.

== . - Detachment, Crew or fireteam ==
Two to four soldiers. This could be a vehicle crew, a sniper team, an engineer firing party, or something else which is tiny.

== .. - Section ==
A section normally numbers about 8-10 men and is commanded by a Sgt with a MCpl as second in command.

== ... - Platoon or Troop ==
A platoon is a basic building block of sub-unit organizations. They are headed by a junior officer (2Lt to Capt) and number about 30 to 45 members. They consist of 3 or 4 sections (depending on the Arm). A Tank Troop would consist of 4 battle tanks.

== l - Company ==
A Company is considered a sub-unit and is the building block of "unit" sized organizations. They are headed by Majors and consist of a headquarders and 3 to 4 platoons (or troops). An Artillery sub-unit is refered to as a Battery, and the Armoured, Engineers and Signalls refer to thier sub-units as squadrons.

== ll - Batallion ==
The Battalion is the standard sized "unit" of the Army. The Artillery, Armoured, Engineers, and Signals refer to thier units as Regiments. Tactical Aviation refers to its units as squadrons. Units are commanded by a commanding officer (typically a LCol). In some rare cases, smaller organizations may be given the designation of "unit" (but they would still use the map designator of thier smaller size).

As for the Infantry Battalion structure, it's usually 3 to 4 rifle companies in addition to combat support company which used to comprise of 1 x mortar platoon, 1x Recce Platoon, 1 x Anti-Armour Platoon, 1 x Pioneer Platoon (things like mortars and pioneers have been phased out of the current structure). There's also a HQ company which has a Battalion CP, Int Detachment, MP Detachment and a Sigs Platoon. There's a Logistical Company comprising of Battalion stores, payroll, maintenance, cooks and the like.

== lll - Regiment ==
Common for Soviet and WWII German forces in which a Regiment was a fighting formation. A Regiment typically consists of three to four battalions under the command of a Col.

(This should not be confused with the term "regiment" as it is used in commonwealth armies. Those Canadian regiments which are larger than one unit are still not formations. PPCLI, RCR, R22R, RNBR, etc will never deploy under a regimental headquarters. They will always be battalions as part of a Bde. For this reason you won't see Canadian units marked as Regiments on a map. The same is true of most of our allies.)

== x - Brigade ==
A Brigade typically consists of three to four battalions under the command of a BGen.

In Canada we have Brigade Groups, which are slightly larger than brigades, and are composed of the following:
* 1x Headquarters / Signal Squadron
* 3 x Inf Battalions
* 1x Armoured Regiment
* 1x Field Artillery Regiment (but when the brigade is part of a division the artillery may be brigaded)
* 1x Engineer Regiment (but when the brigade is part of a division the engineers may be brigaded)
* 1x Service Battalion (but technically not part of the Bde)
* 1x Field Ambulance unit (but technically not part of the Bde)
* 1x Military Police platoon

(The term Brigade Group is often used to designate a combined arms Brigade. These formations do not require a divisional support structure, and can be fought independent of a higher formation.)

== xx - Division ==
2-3 brigades, plus division troops (reconnaissance, artillery, engineers, signals, aviation, medical and logistics (including military police)) commanded by a Major General

== xxx - Corps ==
2+ divisions, commanded by a Lieutenant General

== xxxx - Army ==
2+ corps

== xxxxx - Army Group or Theater Command ==
2+ Armies

== Return to Land Forces Command ==
[[Land Forces Command]]

Platoons, Brigades, Divisions Oh My!

2006-05-22T18:24:03Z

Heisenberg: /* x - Brigade */

Here is a general descriptor of how the army is structured. Don't get too caught in the numbers though. Sections will vary in size. Platoons may be short sections (or may have extra sections). Regular Force infantry battalions only have three rifle companies these days (as opposed to the traditional four) and many reserve regiments only have one company.

Note that generally the "rule of three" gives you a rough estimate of what an element can be broken down in to (ie: 3 sections to a platoon, 3 platoons to a company, 3 companies to a battalion, etc, etc). However, that rule of three typically breaks down when you try to apply it to support elements or combined arms groups.

The dot/line/x system is the NATO standard designation used in conjuction with map symbols.

== . - Detachment, Crew or fireteam ==
Two to four soldiers. This could be a vehicle crew, a sniper team, an engineer firing party, or something else which is tiny.

== .. - Section ==
A section normally numbers about 8-10 men and is commanded by a Sgt with a MCpl as second in command.

== ... - Platoon or Troop ==
A platoon is a basic building block of sub-unit organizations. They are headed by a junior officer (2Lt to Capt) and number about 30 to 45 members. They consist of 3 or 4 sections (depending on the Arm). A Tank Troop would consist of 4 battle tanks.

== l - Company ==
A Company is considered a sub-unit and is the building block of "unit" sized organizations. They are headed by Majors and consist of a headquarders and 3 to 4 platoons (or troops). An Artillery sub-unit is refered to as a Battery, and the Armoured, Engineers and Signalls refer to thier sub-units as squadrons.

== ll - Batallion ==
The Battalion is the standard sized "unit" of the Army. The Artillery, Armoured, Engineers, and Signals refer to thier units as Regiments. Tactical Aviation refers to its units as squadrons. Units are commanded by a commanding officer (typically a LCol). In some rare cases, smaller organizations may be given the designation of "unit" (but they would still use the map designator of thier smaller size).

As for the Infantry Battalion structure, it's usually 3 to 4 rifle companies in addition to combat support company which used to comprise of 1 x mortar platoon, 1x Recce Platoon, 1 x Anti-Armour Platoon, 1 x Pioneer Platoon (things like mortars and pioneers have been phased out of the current structure). There's also a HQ company which has a Battalion CP, Int Detachment, MP Detachment and a Sigs Platoon. There's a Logistical Company comprising of Battalion stores, payroll, maintenance, cooks and the like.

== lll - Regiment ==
Common for Soviet and WWII German forces in which a Regiment was a fighting formation. A Regiment typically consists of three to four battalions under the command of a Col.

(This should not be confused with the term "regiment" as it is used in commonwealth armies. Those Canadian regiments which are larger than one unit are still not formations. PPCLI, RCR, R22R, RNBR, etc will never deploy under a regimental headquarters. They will always be battalions as part of a Bde. For this reason you won't see Canadian units marked as Regiments on a map. The same is true of most of our allies.)

== x - Brigade ==
A Brigade typically consists of three to four battalions under the command of a BGen.

In Canada we have Brigade Groups, which are slightly larger than brigades, and are composed of the following:
* 1x Headquarters / Signal Squadron
* 3 x Inf Battalions
* 1x Armoured Regiment
* 1x Field Artillery Regiment (but when the brigade is part of a division the artillery may be brigaded)
* 1x Engineer Regiment (but when the brigade is part of a division the engineers may be brigaded)
* 1x Service Battalion (but technically not part of the Bde)
* 1x Field Ambulance unit (but technically not part of the Bde)
* 1x Military Police platoon

(The term Brigade Group is often used to designate a combined arms Brigade. These formations do not require a divisional support structure, and can be fought independent of a higher formation.)

== xx - Division ==
2-3 brigades, commanded by a Major General

== xxx - Corps ==
2+ divisions, commanded by a Lieutenant General

== xxxx - Army ==
2+ corps

== xxxxx - Army Group or Theater Command ==
2+ Armies

== Return to Land Forces Command ==
[[Land Forces Command]]