Weapons Training

[highlandranger]

Does the Army Cadet program allow cadets to do weapons training with the old FN or Lee Enfield< or are the cadets on the Daisy air Rifle like the Junior Canadian Rangers?

 

[GGHG_Cadet]

Cadets are also allowed to shoot large bore I believe. As long as the RSO is certified for large bore (which I believe CIC RSOs are not certified for) then the cadets can shoot large bore i.e. Lee Enfields in .303, C7 etc.

 

[ouyin2000]

Cadet Instructor RSOs may be certified on largebore, but they are not permitted to use it at camp. That is done by reserve/regular CF members.

Cadets *can* shoot everything from the Daisy air rifle, to the Lee Enfield .22 (converted .303), to the C12A1 (a 7.62mm olympic target rifle).

Daisy - most common rifle, used mostly at the home unit, and for competitions.
.22 - second most common rifle, used to familiarization at the unit.
.22 Anschutz - used for biathlon targets.
C7 - familiarization on CLI courses only. Some unit's affiliated unit will take some cadets out and show them how to shoot it, but this is rare.
C11 - target rifle used on the CL Marksman course only.
C12A1 - target rifle used on the CLI Marksman course only.

 

[Lerch]

The largest I've fired with cadets was .303 on the No4's. But that was for Ceremony of the Flags and they were blank rounds. Otherwise it was the .22 Anschutz with my Range Team.

And then there was the 9mm simunition...

 

[ouyin2000]

Personally, i've fired old civil war era muskets, .22, 9mm, and 45cal handguns, as well as 12 and 16 guage shotguns

It helps to have an officer who's a member of the local Gun Club

 

[my72jeep]

Personally, i've fired old civil war era muskets, .22, 9mm, and 45cal handguns, as well as 12 and 16 guage shotguns

It helps to have an officer who's a member of the local Gun Club

Your lucky to have done that, Because its now a chargable offence for a CIC Officer to allow Cadets to fire non serveice firearms. It's to the point that the kid next door who is a cadet and a member of the local gun club can not even with his father there, fire my 9mm. He is a cadet, no ifs ands buts or maybes. Its all got to do with liabilities.

 

[ouyin2000]

Yea I know all about the legal issues with cadets, which is why my officer invited me to be his guest at the gun club for a day, where it is allowed for me to shoot his pistols, etc.

It was all clearly spelled out in the Comox Valley Gun Club rules.

 

[my72jeep]

Yea I know all about the legal issues with cadets, which is why my officer invited me to be his guest at the gun club for a day, where it is allowed for me to shoot his pistols, etc.

It was all clearly spelled out in the Comox Valley Gun Club rules.

That was before not now Sorry We had a JAG briefing on it. I know it sucks but all it will take is one person to to get injured and all hell will break lose.

 

[Burrows]

Do you have any official documentation of this order?

 

[q_1966]

It also has to do with wether the range is authorized for use by DND (If your not doing it as a civilian that is)

 

[my72jeep]

Do you have any official documentation of this order?

CRCO 1807 covers most of it. I am still looking for the memo banning the rest.http://www.central.cadets.ca/crco/1807.pdf

 

[ouyin2000]

CRCO 1807

Central Region Cadet Orders

I'm in Pac Region...

 

[my72jeep]

Central Region Cadet Orders

I'm in Pac Region...

Pac will have there own version of CRCO's it might have the same #.

 

[ouyin2000]

PRCIs are only numbers with only 3 digits, and no, there is no PRCI on non-issue firearms.

PRCI's located here: http://www.cadets.net/pac/support/admin/prci_e.asp

 

[ryanmann356]

It also has to do with wether the range is authorized for use by DND (If your not doing it as a civilian that is)

Thats right, they have to meet very strict guidelines too, as demonstrated with the shutting down of the Vernon large bore range last year. :-\

 

[jbeach95]

I was range staff for a cadet C7 familiarization shoot last year (with a reserve RSO). This was part of 4RCR's new policy of doing more with our affiliated cadet unit.

We just had to remember, it's a firearm or a rifle, not a weapon. Do not use the term "enemy" or anything like it (eg. "Charlie"). No figure 11 or figure 12 targets. And automatic fire is out of the question.

 

[ouyin2000]

We just had to remember, it's a firearm or a rifle, not a weapon. Do not use the term "enemy" or anything like it (eg. "Charlie"). No figure 11 or figure 12 targets. And automatic fire is out of the question.

Exactly! That's one of the biggest downfalls of cadets, is that we want to stimulate an interest in the forces, and do more things with our AFUs...yet we aren't allowed to learn the language of the army :

 

[jbeach95]

Well, I can see the point in not teaching children how to kill people. The point of the shoot was for marksmanship, not necessarily becoming an effective killer. In our politically correct nation, teaching kids about military tactics is frowned upon. If the cadets are interested enough in the army, they can join it and THEN learn about how to kill Charlie.

What I'm really trying to say is that the language of the army isn't really that important. It can be picked up very quickly. The skills that the cadets learn are far more important to making a future soldier. Forgive my ignorance, but how often do cadets use semi-automatic rifles like the C7? Whether it's a "rifle" or a "weapon" doesn't really matter.

And yes, one of the main purposes for my unit to be working more closely with the cadets is to increase recruiting. Maybe it would be possible to include cadets who are seriously considering joining the unit on some of our (reserve) shoots or even exercises. They may not be able to participate much (lack of qualifications and tactical training), but at least they could get an impression of what we do. I think I remember something like this happening once during my time in, but it's rare.

 

[ouyin2000]

What I'm really trying to say is that the language of the army isn't really that important. It can be picked up very quickly. The skills that the cadets learn are far more important to making a future soldier. Forgive my ignorance, but how often do cadets use semi-automatic rifles like the C7? Whether it's a "rifle" or a "weapon" doesn't really matter.

Correct, it doesn't really matter...but someone higher up decided it does matter :

And in a typical cadet career, they would only be able to use the C7 once (maybe twice if they're lucky) in any 7 year career.

And yes, one of the main purposes for my unit to be working more closely with the cadets is to increase recruiting. Maybe it would be possible to include cadets who are seriously considering joining the unit on some of our (reserve) shoots or even exercises. They may not be able to participate much (lack of qualifications and tactical training), but at least they could get an impression of what we do. I think I remember something like this happening once during my time in, but it's rare.

I have unintentionally been included in a FTX with the C Scots a few years ago.
I showed up at the training facility (which the reserves use also) for a cadet FTX, and my CO was there, and said that it was cancelled and for me to go home. By that time though, my ride had already left, so I had to phone home and have my father come back to pick me up. In the meantime, the reserves were starting some of their section attacks out on the field, and their Pl Comd invited my CO and I to watch them throwing their flashbangs and practicing their movements. He was explaining everything to me as it was happening, and it was all VERY interesting. I think that is the first time i realised that I wanted to be in the military (about 5 years ago).

 

[ryanmann356]

Do not use the term "enemy" or anything like it (eg. "Charlie").

hehe interesting, when i took Riflecoach last year we unofficially call our targets "Herman the German" but they are still the official cadet targets.  We just made sure the officers didnt hear us when we were inside the mod tent at the range, talking about all the lead we pumped into Herman.  ;D