Tye Dye; because hippies are SOOOOOOOOO cool

[muskrat89]

I would add that soldiers exist to defend democracy, not practice it. I choose not to reply to Lui, but intentional or not, he has mastered pushing everyone‘s buttons. Proud military people are a different breed, you see - we don‘t hold ourselves (nor should anyone else) to the same standards as the rest of society. Thaedes - you‘ve got gumption, and hopefully you will learn that "we don‘t have to accept people the way they are". I don‘t think you can understand Unit morale until you‘ve experienced it. People not aspiring to do their best can endanger people - is Lui who you want on sentry at night, while the rest of you sleep, because he doesn‘t aspire to the same things we do, and we should leave him alone?? C‘mon... His mindset is dangerous at worst, selfish at best.

 

[Thaedes]

Point well made Muskrat. And there is no debating that. When push comes to shove, if I had to rely on someone who wasn‘t giving it his best, then no - I wouldn‘t rely on said individual.

My only contention however, is that we are way to quick to judge Lui. He may seem careless, but thats only a superficial observation, made over the internet through the writings and commentaries of his. Can we honestly say we have a clue as to what his work ethic is like?

People often say things on message boards, that they may not have meant. They often say things that don‘t really impart what they meant to say. All I am saying, is give the guy the benefit of the doubt. He is young still, plenty of room to grow and learn. In his post about the Feu de joie he says;

It really puts things in perspective too, being in a parade with 300-400 soldiers from across Western Canada. I told a guy who did basic with me who was there: "To be honest, this is the probably first time I‘ve felt like a soldier since basic." Also, after listning to Col. Boufards speech, I think I had a change of heart as to the relevance of the reserves, as well as the relevance of being a reserve soldier.

Apparently, the guy has been really thinking on his conduct on these forums, and how you guys have treated him. So much so, that when he went to this ceremony it made him reflect and reconsider some of his ways and opinions.

What happens? Everyone burns him anyways. Some people apparently expected him to change overnight.

Anyways, as I‘ve said. I‘m not defending his opinions, only his right to have said opinions.

 

[Fader]

Hehe, thanks Thaedes, I appreciate your concern and respect your conviction, but don‘t worry, the motto I live by living primarily on the net is "Winning an argument on the net is like winning Gold at the Special Olympics, either way you‘re retarded." With that, I take it all with a grain of salt.

To be honest, the reserves has been an integral part of my life over the past 2 years, and I see it as being such for at the very least, a few more to come. What I wanted to get across to a lot of people was not that I think the way I think because I don‘t care, but rather, I think that way because I do. My apathetic, slack mentality I attribute to being in such an environment. Perhaps it‘s differant for most of these guys as for the most part they‘re PRes combat trades or reg force, where they probably take things more seriously than we do in PRes support trades. I think I have the best unit in Canada, because there are so many guys just like me. While you could use the argument "I wouldn‘t want that guy in a trench with me during a firefight;" any one of my mates at the unit will probably say something like "Yeah, we probably won‘t be anywhere near the firefight when it happens."
Whatsmore, my attitude I think reflects the attitude of my peers and perhaps of the era I live in. I read an article running in the Globe and Mail documenting "The New Canada;" which was about the uprising generation of 20 year old Canadians and how thier mentality differed dramatically from the more conservative older generations. While I know I‘m 6 months shy of being in that category, and I know there are likely alot of 20 year olds who arn‘t as modernized at the article describes, I do know that many of the attributes described of the youth of today are attributes I share. I also know that I exhibit and practice those attributes and beliefs in every aspect of my life; the reserves included.
By no means to I mean to be ominous as well, but it is my belief that that‘s the way our society is going. A generation of people believing in peace, equality, stability and egalitarianism is making it‘s rise, and I know it‘s only a matter of time before that mind set, to a degree that is practical, is present within the military. To a degree, i think it already is. I take Windwolfs attitude and experiences as soldier and the attitude and experiences I have, and there is a world of contrast; the man was medically released in was it 1989? Well, in 2003, I think things have changed dramatically. **** , within my unit there are guys who lived to see the change and always go on about it, much in the same way alot of folks around here do.
But back to my original post; I probably screwd up the stats on the range ex; again, it was almost a year ago, and I just wanted to get out of the cold, windy range and get back home and sleep. I‘ll ask my friend what she shot and what her grouping was, and I‘ll get back with that. The point I was trying to get across was that I think it bugged the L.Col that a girl who had been in for less than a year outshot 40-50 male soldiers, some of whom had over 9-10 years experiences.
As for my Ghilie suit, call it what you will, the reservists I‘ve gone paintballing with called it a ghilie suit, my OC called it one, anyone who sees me when I‘m wearing it calls it one, thus I call it one. But after dying it, I have to say I‘m quite impressed with it; when i put it on, literally, I look like a bush. My POINT though was... well... I didn‘t have a point. I had a question though to all the guys who have ghilie suits; that being, how do they maintain it and prevent it from wearing down? Also, how did the originally construct it? I‘m pretty sure that was in my original post too.

 

[riggah052]

Lui I have a question for you? Why don‘t you try your hand at the infantry? Judging from your past posts, it is evident that you enjoy paintball, and that you would like to travel some more after your call-out in Germany. You also stated that you shot well on the ranges, and that you were thinking about staying even after your schooling so why not?
You get the opportunity to fire bigger and better weapons ( I love the C-6 myself),and do things that the combat support trades don‘t do. I did several support exercises with various milita units, and although it‘s hard work, there was a lot of good thigs that I got to do.
:cam:

 

[Deleted member 585]

Windwolf, I hear you.

Here‘s to espirit de corps.

 

[WINDWOLF]

Riggah,that,s a he11 of an idea for Lui.
Lui,if you are as good as you say in paintball,
then grunt may be just the ticket for you.
May bring back the pride you felt when you
first started.

Think about it.

 

[Redneck052]

Riggah and Windwolf,

There are several reasons that LUI would not enlist in the Infantry:

1. It takes pride, and they enforce honour.

2. It takes an unselfish trust

3. It takes respect

4. There is no hidding...anywhere

and must importantly... 5. It takes work


But then again, he‘ll have use for a gillie suit.


Pro Patria!

 

[WINDWOLF]

That is a fact Redneck except for the suit.
But these will be taught or learned as the
training progressessssss.If not,then it will
be enforced by the group.

Failure is sometimes the best way to learn.
Being the recipant of a blanket party will
diffenatly change your view.

 

[Fader]

That‘s funny Windwolf, since blanket party‘s have sorta phased out since you‘re time. These days, I think if anyone were to pull a blanket party on course, some pretty bad things would happen. I‘m not sure, but I‘d imagine the MP‘s would get envolved, there‘d be a summary trial for the instructors/guys envolved, and the guy recieving the blanket party would probably file a massive law suit against the CF and probably win (interesting...but unfortunatly, I‘m not too sure if that were the case). I remember on my basic, one guy kicked this little idiot right in the back for saying "Guys, we shouldn‘t drink alcohol when they let us out on our weekend, it‘s bad." and he spent his entire weekend on the parade square doing extra drill practice and had to write a 2000 word essay of apology to the guy.
Windwolf, you obviously wern‘t around when they implemented SHARP training that every soldier these days knows and loves. It‘s even unethical and unpracticed for instructors to hit students. A friend of mine immigrated from Hong Kong, and was a HK Police Officer before coming here. On his basic, he was ASKING the instructors to hit him, ASKING! Of course they didn‘t.

I guess you guys didn‘t read my posts, since I stated I failed on the range and I‘m a terrible shot. I called up the girl, and her groupings were 5 cm, not 5mm; mine was thus 80cm (i remember the figures 5 and 80, just not the units). For months after, she got the title of "Ultimate Killer" for our squadron.

Anywho, I wouldn‘t mind being in the combat arms; I‘ve seen some of the guys (and I mean guys with the same amount of time in as me) who are lineman, infantry, engineer, or arty. I know I‘m a just as fit as alot of them, and I know I work just as hard as they do at my job. Thing is, all that combat arms stuff isn‘t very appealing to me now that I‘ve seen the wonders of being a SigOp, I think a lot of SigOps feel the same way. We have the sweetest trade in the army. One unofficial statistic I‘ve heard is that within trades like the infantry, if a guy goes 5 years and is in perfect health, he is very, very lucky, since there are so many unavoidable permenant injuries like rolled ankles and lower back injuries associated with going into the field or normal training. I know the only real threat I have to worry about in the field or normal training is electrocuting myself, falling of an LS, or getting cancer from the RF radiation I‘m exposed to for hours at a time.

As for the ghilie suit, I get little to no admiration from my fellow soldiers for having made it. It took a crazy long time to make it, on the 45 minutes bus ride to the University every morning, I‘d just sit there sewing burlap to it much to the dismay of those sitting around me. I started it up because another Sigop told me he had seen an infanteer make one in a similiar fashion, and I thought it would be cool to try it myself. I wonder, though, who here has one as well? Thus leading to my original question, how do you maintain it?

As for my use for it, bushball paintball players think it‘s the most interesting thing they‘ve ever seen (unlike most people in the army). I have more of a need for it in the bush playing paintball, because the other wise Republican Guard Green I‘d be wearing doesn‘t blend in half as well as the MARPAT or CADPAT that all the other guys have; and if I‘m going to try and steal the flag from the opposing teams base, or sneak up behind a group of them defending a bunker against an advancing party on my team, I need to blend in.

Whew, it‘s been a long day...

 

[Bringer]

any one of my mates at the unit will probably say something like "Yeah, we probably won‘t be anywhere near the firefight when it happens."

Support units in Iraq suffered a large number of casualties. Asymmetric warfare pretty much guarantees that everyone had better have their infantry basics down or face the consequences. If you‘re in the Army then you‘d better be ready to fight regardless of your occupation.

I don‘t think the Fedeyeen would stop shooting if you told them you were SigOps instead of Infantry.

 

[WINDWOLF]

Fortunatly Lui i was out before Sharp,s was
in use. It,s too bad that the old ways have gone
down the road.Being smacked on the back with a pace stick for sticking your a$$ in the air
during the combat crawl made sure you did not do that again.Being yelled at did little for me
other than teach me to tune them out.

And as for blanket party,s i was the recipeant
of two. One in Cornwallis & once @ battle school.
Improved my attitude geomatricaly.It may not
be pretty,but it works. I never held a
grudge against the guys for it,i deserved it.
Sometimes the group has to solve a problem
before it comes to the attention of higher.

From what you say Lui, the training is semi?
touchy feely in the reserves.Combat arms were
trained to be tought then, are they now?
Let me know. This is not a critisim.

 

[combat_medic]

Windwolf: I can‘t say about the comms reserve, but training is starting to take a backswing to the old days. It had degraded to the point where soldiers could question their orders with no reprecussions, but that‘s starting to come to an end.

No, you still can‘t physically strike a troop, and you can‘t use insults that are racially or sexually derrogative (split @ss etc.) but yelling at troops or insulting them to a certain extent is still permitted.

Now the main difference (other than SHARP) between then and now, is now there is more material covered in terms of basic soldiering skills, but things like PT have slackened off somewhat. Soldiers are starting to become smarter, but they‘re also less obedient. It‘s a product of the world we live in, and unfortunately you can‘t have both; a soldier who is completely aware of his rights and responsibilities, but allows himself to be walked on continuously.

On my basic (about 4 years ago) we were about to give a girl a blanket party, but the staff found out and put a stop to it. The staff did, however, make it increasingly difficult for the girl in question, but they didn‘t want things conducted "behind closed doors". There‘s nothing wrong with discipline, but now they want it to be appropriate and fair.

Example: If you suck at weapons handling, the staff will make you spend a couple hours in the evening doing remedial weapons training by yourself, rather than making you pump off a million pushups. That way there‘s punishment, and it solves the problem.

 

[Fader]

From what I‘ve gathered, basic training was nothing more than an introduction to how to operate in a military. As the name suggests; it taught me the very basics, many of which I still do apply (my ghilie suit for example, I created using the principles I learnt in my cam and concealment part of my LET). While it wasn‘t anything like I expected, (I expected it to be like the first 45 minutes of Full Metal Jacket) it was still difficult enough to instill a sense of pride towards the military.
I think the attitude of a soldier graduating from basic today differs a lot more than the attitude of a soldier that graduated in your time Windwolf; as for further trades courses, I‘m not too sure if it‘s trade specific, but I think the same trend occurs.
Ironically enough, I think one thing that accounts for this, is though basic military fundamentals are still present (rank structure, chain of command, division of work, etc.) these days, we seem to be more oriented around thinking for ourselves as subordinates, rather than just doing exactly what someone of higher rank tells us. The term "Thinking man‘s army" has come up alot in my interactions with people as it relates to the Canadian military. I had a theory that the CF being in a neglected a state as it is, our soldiers HAVE to stay sharp mentally on an individual basis in order to be able to do thier jobs effectivly.
I believe that a great deal of grit and physical strength have been sacrificed as a desireable trait for soldiers, and in it‘s place seems to be logic and mental aptitude, especially within the reserves. I think that comes as no surprise, since a great deal of new recruits are very well educated (as is reflected in our population of people within that age group). I also believe that that emphasis accounts alot for our differant attitudes: it‘s easier to become more emotionally attatched during times of intense stress, and it‘s alot easier to inflict physical stress on someone than it is mental. That‘s why I think alot of the guys that are combatants and do or have lead "the hard life" within the military are especially more loyal than those of us who have lived in the era of the effective inddivdual.
You‘re attatchment to the old ways is understandable, I‘m sure it has it‘s advantages. I‘m also sure the old system worked for the time it was implemented, but nothing works forever, which is why things change.
As for the Iraq and Asymmetric warfare, that only applies on a tactical level. If there were a war somewhere, I don‘t think I‘d have too much to worry about the Fedeyeen shooting at me if I were using an INMARSAT or LCT from somewhere here in Canada, keeping comms with someone in Europe, keeping comms with someone in Iraq. When I was gunho, I was all about the "TacRad go out in the field and paint your face green;" but now that we‘re going more StratRad, I‘m more about the "Sitting in the office on an HF radio, with a pizza and flat of pop; keeping in comms with someone in the field."

 

[Thaedes]

While I agree the military is certainly changing pace, from a previously more ridgid and controlled aspect to a more relaxed and contemplative position. I believe that to sacrifice much of the hardliner way is a really bad idea. Otherwise, infantry just cannot and will not be as effective.

The only possible solutions are that of a really intense MOC for infantry, or a seperate Basic for those applying to infantry. The fact is, if your a fat a$s in infantry, your going to be a problem for your company. If you spend all your time thinking, and not acting on the orders given to you by men who are trained to be competant (admittedly they aren‘t always), then your gonna be a storage facility for incomming enemy ammunition. And to a certain degree, I imagine this would apply to all other MOC‘s.

Thats just my $0.02 worth though.

 

[riggah052]

In case nobody told you, no matter what trade you are in the forces, you are going to see something. The number one ground target for enemy forces to liquidate is an RRB site, Know what that is? Another target that is quick to be neutralised in a war fighting enviornment is HQ & sigs, hey hey can you see a picture developing here? You should. One of the main trg activities for the russian spetznas forces was strictly taking out various rad dets.
While we‘re on the topic of the second gulf war, remember the saga of the maintainence coy. that got captured? "we‘re only here to fix broken trucks, not to fight" seems that twelve got captured and only one lived to tell the tale, and even there, only barely.
Don‘t be ignorant LUI,it doesn‘t suit you and you seem like a smart guy :warstory:
By the way, even though your unit is playing more with SATCOM, it doesn‘t necessarily mean that it‘s what you‘d see in a war.

 

[riggah052]

Sorry, forgot to ask in my last post, did you answer my question in my last post? In all the rhetoric, I didn‘t find it. I don‘t care if guys you knew got injured, or whether you wear your combats to paintball. I just wanted a question answered, If you want some respect at least give some.
:skull:

 

[WINDWOLF]

You have a good point there Lui. the guys in
my platoon had ,i think, a average gr 10.
So we were not the brightest bunch around.
Being smacked was probably the only way to
get our attention & to instill disipline.

It,s sad to know that pt is taking a back
seat in the training regiment.I always
thought that physical training was the key
to good soldiering in the field.You could
have all the brains of god,but not be able
to make back to the rally point.

Combat_medic,it is now the single & not the
group that is disiplined for shortcomings
in training?

 

[combat_medic]

Windwolf: I think it depends on the infraction. At the beginning of basic, if they‘re trying to ram home a certain point, or if several people make the same mistake, they‘ll certainly punish the whole group. However, if one person shows a lot of continuous difficulty with something, often they‘ll single out the individual.

For example: if the whole platoon can‘t march, or if there‘s a number of them who just don‘t get it, the whole platoon will be up late doing remedial drill. If one guy alone is repeatedly thick and doesn‘t get it, he‘ll be singled out and get taught on his own (usually in addition to getting an ‘initial warning‘ formerly known as a ‘verbal warning‘).

 

[WINDWOLF]

Ah,verbals,how well i know those.Use to start
out with"Pte,you piece of sh!t,your other left"
& then go down hill from there.

:warstory:

 

[Deleted member 585]

So Thaedes, got your CD yet?

ROFL.

Rhetoric: a post lacking the benefit of military indoctrination and despite this, attempts to expound military notions. Mmm. Tasty dogmatic rationale.

The saving grace? It demonstrates a genuine interest. I‘m sure that once you go through BMQ, bust your a$$, and endure a few show-parades, it will all come together. There‘s always a place for principled, outspoken individuals -- they usually become leaders. :warstory:

Here‘s to esprit de corps!

Cheers!