The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[Fishbone Jones]

Sorry to be pedantic but... source please.

Martin Jr Election commercial

"There will be soldiers. In the street. With guns."
As I explained, I paraphrased this. To fit the liberals joking about bringing tanks to the protest.
Use your own googlefu to look it up.

Sorry to ruin your moment there, ueo.

 

[Eaglelord17]

How much do you want to bet that the next thing they try to confiscate won't be gas powered engines?

No need, either stop selling gas, make it so expensive that it isn't affordable to have a gas powered engine (they are working on that currently), or simply prohibit the sale of new gas powered engines. Confiscation is costly, dangerous, and time consuming. Easier to simply cut off the supply and let it fade out.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

He can say anything he wants at this point it is just grandstanding.

The USSC has already upheld the fact common use firearms cannot be banned.

He’s lost the House (and didn’t have enough anti gun dems anyway) and the Senate is notoriously less partisan when it comes to guns especially with southern democrats who want another term).

I know he won't accomplish it Kev.

With the last minute, too late to stop it, introduction of G-4 the liberals are moving off the 'assault style rifle' narrative, on to the broader term 'semiautomatic' ban.

I've never heard a US politician use the term 'semi automatic' as criteria for a ban. Until yesterday.

“The idea we still allow semiautomatic weapons to be purchased is sick. It’s just sick. It has no, no social redeeming value. Zero. None. Not a single, solitary rationale for it except profit for the gun manufacturers,” Biden argued.

From an 'assault rifle ban' to a 'semiautomatic ban.'

I just thought the timing of the switch odd.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

No need, either stop selling gas, make it so expensive that it isn't affordable to have a gas powered engine (they are working on that currently), or simply prohibit the sale of new gas powered engines. Confiscation is costly, dangerous, and time consuming. Easier to simply cut off the supply and let it fade out.

all small gas engines banned (for sale) in California. Jan 2024.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The finalized list. 300 pages of banned firearms.

https://firearmrights.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/the-list.pdf

 

[Brad Sallows]

Continuing digression: my father has moved to all-electric (battery-powered mower and snowblower) and so far is quite satisfied. Ditto a friend who has a battery-powered leafblower. Stipulating that there might be some users who need the power of a gas engine, I don't think a move away from small gasoline engines is necessarily retrograde.

 

[singh1947]

It's actually incredible to think anyone believed this was going to end any other way. This was always Canada's destiny, to join the ranks of other anti-gun countries like UK, Australia, NZ, etc.

They essentially brought back a new form of registry in May. Every gun registry in history has lead to confiscation. The writing was on the wall for ages. Despite every clue, every signal that this was going to happen, most people just kept saying "They'll never do that" and now here we are, the final chapter, and they're closing in on the last of the guns that weren't already banned. Even if they don't get every variant this time, and a few are left, they'll eventually add them to list.

Anyone who is interested in gun ownership and the right to self-defence should know by now that the government is doing everything it can to ensure Canadians won't be allowed either. Believing otherwise is as foolish as all the people who said "But...They will never ban X..." only to see it in the following ban, it won't end until everything is gone except some highly regulated hunting rifles, and even then we can expect those laws will continue to get stricter and stricter because at the end of the day a bullet is a bullet and no amount of regulation will go far enough for the anti-gun crowd.

That part of our freedom in this country is dead and gone, there's no convincing arguments to suggest we'll see that change, it only gets worse from here. This country doesn't have the 2nd amendment, so essentially the USA will be last place in the West that allows gun ownership and the right to adequately defend yourself in an increasingly violent society.

Sorry to be so blunt, but honestly, who really thought this wasn't coming? It was only a matter of time for Canada. It was always only a matter of time.

American judges let tinder dates red-flag you & neither can felons vote.

Pre Trudeau you could get a PAL after your sentence was done.

The difference being the NRA has shit tons of political clout.

They've acceded to red flag laws & a whole bunch of stuff. I don't see them fighting the NFA or full auto ban either..
Full auto would ironically reduce mass shooting casualties - which aren't that many anyway it's like under 1500 or 1000 over close to 40 years..

Continuing digression: my father has moved to all-electric (battery-powered mower and snowblower) and so far is quite satisfied. Ditto a friend who has a battery-powered leafblower. Stipulating that there might be some users who need the power of a gas engine, I don't think a move away from small gasoline engines is necessarily retrograde.

Battery mower, plug-in leaf blower, but 357cc snowblower here for my dad.
Battery in the cold or a tiny electric motor are both a no-go.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The finalized list. 300 pages of banned firearms.

https://firearmrights.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/the-list.pdf

I'll try unpack this.
They did an end run around the Bill of Rights. Prohibited items can be seized by the government, with no compensation. The government, through this bill, can change the status of any firearm or device from non restricted to prohibited with a computer stroke, allowing them to legally change the status and seize it under the Criminal Code. Something can be good one minute and five minutes later, you are a criminal.
If future governments wish to undo this, they must use the full legislative process to do it. Something that wasn't done currently, to enact C-21.
The list is deeply flawed with firearms descriptions cut and pasted. They didn't research the models they are banning, for compliance to the OiC.
They banned hundreds of firearms by manufacturer. Winchester, Remington, Mossberg, etc capturing all kinds of hunting rifles and shotguns. Bolt actions, lever actions, break action and .22 rimfires
Liberal members of the SECU are saying the list is 'weapons of war' and 'sniper rifles'. Their descriptions and claims have shown a tremendous lack of understanding and ignorance about the subject they are pushing. They didn't answer questions, as per normal, and stood on solicitor/ client privilege when boxed in.
They removed the legislative process and government responsibility to change classification and gave it over to the RCMP to classify firearms and devices wholesale with no criteria. Someone like Murray Smith their firearms 'expert' can just say he doesn't like the look and flip it from non restricted to prohibited like he has done so far with thousands of firearms identified in the FRT.

I've likely missed something and all this is from watching the SECU hearings. I have just started to go through the Bill and have only spot read certain parts.

They found their loophole for classification and confiscation without compensation. I don't know why they couldn't be expected to use the same tactics on anything they want to remove from the people.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Full auto would ironically reduce mass shooting casualties - which aren't that many anyway it's like under 1500 or 1000 over close to 40 years..

Source?

Full autos have not been allowed in Canada for decades. So, a non starter here.

 

[singh1947]

Source?

A database of mass shootings compiled by Mother Jones going back to 1982 counts 123 such incidents in which at least three people were killed, not including the gunman. In that time, 952 people have been killed and 1,315 wounded.

41 Years of Mass Shootings in the U.S. in One Chart

Hundreds of people have been killed in mass shootings since 1982

time.com

The FBI collects data on “active shooter incidents,” which it defines as “one or more individuals actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a populated area.” Using the FBI’s definition, 38 people – excluding the shooters – died in such incidents in 2020.

What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.

In 2020, the U.S. experienced a record number of gun murders, as well as a near-record number of gun suicides.

www.pewresearch.org

What they've started to do in the last year or two is term gangland drive-by shootings as mass to increase the numbers.

----
Anti-gunners are making moral arguments, you can't beat them with statistics.
I stopped trying years ago,

"Weapons are sacred, and the physical form of the Goddess.
Speaking against weapons is blasphemy,
cease or you will be removed from the premises."

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Mother Jones is far, far away from an unbiased opinion.

Registered guns v. criminal firearms.

So far, I find two instances where law abiding people used full autos. Both policemen and it appears they used department weapons. They now fall into the criminal category. However, it has only been a cursory search.

You're putting the onus of the firearm, instead of the person on the bang button. That's what the liberals are doing right now.
Using what is termed as 'assault style rifles' is hyperbole. A scare tactic, used by politicians to elicit fear. There is no definition of an assault style rifle. They use characteristics to define what they think it should be. A firearm that can fire a massive amount of ammo, in a short period of time, in order to kill the most amount of people.

Ironically, besides our military, the only use of true assault weapons and full auto firearms are buy our cops, armed with C8 carbines and 30 round magazines. They try to cover the fact that they carry these, for use, by calling them Patrol Carbines. And whatever the close protection guys use to protect the politicians that are taking our firearms.
Federal Conservation Officers have been issued AR-10 platforms (.308) for use in the field. All of these firearms are prohibited to civilian gun owners.

We can't have them, because, remember, they are designed for only one purpose, they say, One Purpose. To kill as many people as possible in the least amount of time.

So why are our officers carrying them around. Who are these masses of people they are going to gun down in the least amount of time? With their full auto, 30 round magazine weapons?

I'm not besmirching LEOs, or their equipment. I know why they have them.

I'm pointing out the blatant hypocrisy, subterfuge and dishonesty of this whole red and orange liberal misuse of legislation and law, to deprive and disarm Canada and it's citizens.

 

[Booter]

police carbines aren’t full auto.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

police carbines aren’t full auto.

That is the first time I've ever gotten an answer to the question of if they are full auto. The usual response is a blank stare and walk away. And Ive asked lots. So they replaced the trigger group. It can be changed back in five minutes. I'll concede the point. It's still designated, by our adverse government description, 'to kill the most amount of people in the shortest amount of time' or does that not stand because police owned ones are called Patrol Carbines? What 'most amount of people' did the government forsee the police would need to 'kill in the least amount of time?'
Why are Conservation Officers issued AR-10 platforms? Because they need followup shots when dealing with dangerous game. But the liberals are happy to stick a hunter in the same situation without adequate firearm protection.

I'm not slagging cops, their job is hard enough.

I'm simple pointing out the ridiculousness and gas lighting by our current rulers in a blatant attempt to vilify firearms. Most of them couldn't even describe a hunting rifle let alone an assault rifle. Their platform is lies and deceit. The last day of the SECU hearings laid bare the absolute ignorance and inflammatory language used by lying liberals in power.

 

[Booter]

I agree with your premise. I get what you’re saying and I’m nodding along.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I agree with your premise. I get what you’re saying and I’m nodding along.

Cheers.

 

[KevinB]

I agree with your premise. I get what you’re saying and I’m nodding along.

The two incidents of illegal killings with legal machine down here happen to have been LEO’s using Department guns on estranged lovers.

Very few departments issue full auto carbines outside of Tac Teams these days, and more and more Tac Teams are opting for Semi only guns when they buy new ones.

 

[Booter]

It’s always hard to speak globally about equipment in the states- it’s like there is always a department that is an exception. In Canada no department or function has full auto.

 

[OldSolduer]

It’s not the Constable 👮‍♂️ on patrol that we need to worry about generally,

Their leadership is suspect though.

 

[ueo]

Martin Jr Election commercial

"There will be soldiers. In the street. With guns."
As I explained, I paraphrased this. To fit the liberals joking about bringing tanks to the protest.
Use your own googlefu to look it up.

Sorry to ruin your moment there, ueo.

No moment desired, just wanted more than FOX level info.

 

[Weinie]

It’s always hard to speak globally about equipment in the states- it’s like there is always a department that is an exception. In Canada no department or function has full auto.

C8 enters the chat.