Snowbird Jet Crashes Into House in Kamloops- May 17 2020

[MilEME09]

Here's an article on that... from 11 years ago.

Spare parts could keep Snowbirds aloft until 2020

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2009/06/14/spare_parts_could_keep_snowbirds_aloft_until_2020.html

Just going off the article it sounds like we are macgyvering to keep them flying. I was just reading a brief article stating the government cancelled a program to replace the Tutor in 2018, opting to upgrade and keep it going until 2030.

Considering we first flew these in the late 60s, is it fair to say this is the fixed wing equivalent to the Seaking?

 

[Zoomie]

Considering we first flew these in the late 60s, is it fair to say this is the fixed wing equivalent to the Seaking?

CC115 Buffalo - 1967

 

[Quirky]

Considering we first flew these in the late 60s, is it fair to say this is the fixed wing equivalent to the Seaking?

No. Considering there are 11 of them flying around during a normal airshow year, season after season, without any significant issues is a testament how reliable the entire fleet is. What happened in the last two crashes (this one looks to be a pop-stall from one of the videos) seems like the worst case scenario, power-loss at low altitude. If it happened during a transit and the plane lands it doesn’t make the news. But now, there are people coming out of the woodwork saying the fleet should be retired etc etc. These last two crashes happened to be at the worst time, only a few months apart.

 

[dimsum]

There is a flypast scheduled in the BC Lower Mainland area tonight.  They are flying the route the Snowbirds would have done.

Route is in the link.

https://www.bcaviation.ca/bcga-news/operation-backup-inspiration-snowbirds-memorial?fbclid=IwAR0HZ3Zyv6Kr1E3piOEfe0iA3kpVNTu-875Cl4QBJB4FyJZtOafsA5T-CZU

 

[Cloud Cover]

No. Considering there are 11 of them flying around during a normal airshow year, season after season, without any significant issues is a testament how reliable the entire fleet is. What happened in the last two crashes (this one looks to be a pop-stall from one of the videos) seems like the worst case scenario, power-loss at low altitude. If it happened during a transit and the plane lands it doesn’t make the news. But now, there are people coming out of the woodwork saying the fleet should be retired etc etc. These last two crashes happened to be at the worst time, only a few months apart.

All good points, but I do believe there is a plan to have the aircraft replaced at some point last year or this year. 

 

[PuckChaser]

All good points, but I do believe there is a plan to have the aircraft replaced at some point last year or this year.

Yeah, they started a project in 2012 to have them replaced in 2020. It was cancelled in favour of life extension into the 2030s.

 

[MilEME09]

All good points, but I do believe there is a plan to have the aircraft replaced at some point last year or this year.

Why not just buy more Hawks? BEA still makes them and we already use them as a jet trainer

 

[kev994]

There is a press conference in 4 mins

 

[OceanBonfire]

..

It appeared to Deschamps that two people ejected, but footage he%u2019d seen didn't show their parachutes deploying. 'It was a very low-level ejection, so those are very high risk,' he said."
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/05/17/canadian-forces-snowbird-plane-crashes-in-kamloops.html

This witness:

Kamloops Snowbird crash witness claims Capt. Jennifer Casey%u2019s parachute was undeployed

A Kamloops father who lives in the neighbourhood where Capt. Jennifer Casey landed after ejecting from the Snowbird CT-114 Tutor that crashed on Sunday suggests she fell to her death without a parachute.

"I saw the parachute and everything on the one roof where the pilot landed," Brian Hunter told Global News on Monday morning as Canadian military investigators took over the crash scene near his house. 'It was over here (pointing over his house) where the other pilot landed. As far as I knew, [Capt. Casey's] parachute didn't open."

"It's very unfortunate. I feel for the family,"

"It's all hard to take in," Hunter said. "I had a hard time sleeping. If that plane were another second in the air it could have been my front yard."

Global News has reached out to the Canadian Department of National Defence for confirmation about the state of Capt. Casey's parachute.

...


https://globalnews.ca/news/6956543/kamloops-snowbird-crash-witness-claims-capt-jennifer-caseys-parachute-was-undeployed/

 

[OldSolduer]

Yeah, they started a project in 2012 to have them replaced in 2020. It was cancelled in favour of life extension into the 2030s.

I was wondering about that - I read that our Dear Leader had cancelled the order for the new aircraft.

Was it him or was it a DND decision?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Must have been our dear leader: Replacing a Tutor with a Hawk sounds way too much ... well, hawkish!  :nod:

 

[PuckChaser]

Folks, check rhe authors of the articles ypu post please.

 

[dapaterson]

There is ongoing work to revamp the end to end training to OFP for pilots.  If we intend to use the same training aircraft for 431 Sqn as we use for training, one would hope that the training requirements would be primary in the requirements.  Thus, the timeline for any CT-114 replacement will likely be dependent on the next generation training system for RCAF pilots.

Any other approach would either (a) risk putting stunt flying requirements above training requirements or (b) create another bespoke, niche fleet.

 

[MilEME09]

There is ongoing work to revamp the end to end training to OFP for pilots.  If we intend to use the same training aircraft for 431 Sqn as we use for training, one would hope that the training requirements would be primary in the requirements.  Thus, the timeline for any CT-114 replacement will likely be dependent on the next generation training system for RCAF pilots.

Any other approach would either (a) risk putting stunt flying requirements above training requirements or (b) create another bespoke, niche fleet.

Agreed which is why I suggested the Hawk since it is already used as a Jet trainer, that said could we not replace the Hawk, Tutor and Harvard II all in one go with a newer aircraft?

 

[SupersonicMax]

It’d be very hard to replace the Hawk with the same aircraft that will replace the Tutor/Harvard II.  The Hawk is a transition to a fighter.  You need those systems and the speed in order to ease the transition between a small jet/turbo prop aircraft and a supersonic fighter.

 

[MilEME09]

It’d be very hard to replace the Hawk with the same aircraft that will replace the Tutor/Harvard II.  The Hawk is a transition to a fighter.  You need those systems and the speed in order to ease the transition between a small jet/turbo prop aircraft and a supersonic fighter.

Fair, so drop the Harvard 2 from my suggestion, a tutor/Hawk replacement all in one, would that work?

 

[SupersonicMax]

Sure or a Harvard II/Tutor replacement depending on what the team’s niche would be.

 

[Drallib]

How about Boeing's T-X.

The US is using it to replace their again T-38's, so if Canada had it as well then it would be the same aircraft for the pilots who train in the US and Canada in the NFTC Program.

It wouldn't be an exact copy as the British Red Arrows.

Any fighter pilots would have already trained on the T-X, so they would be familiar with it.

 

[observor 69]

Reading this thread with my morning coffee. Ah! a comment by Supersonic Max.
Always spoken from experience and knowledge. Your input is always appreciated, Sir.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

How about Boeing's T-X.

The US is using it to replace their again T-38's, so if Canada had it as well then it would be the same aircraft for the pilots who train in the US and Canada in the NFTC Program.

It wouldn't be an exact copy as the British Red Arrows.

Any fighter pilots would have already trained on the T-X, so they would be familiar with it already.

How about the RCAF focus its limited resources on delivering operational effects, rather than airshows?

I get that we (The CAF) need to be seen by the Canadian Public, but, honestly this discussion about an air display team jet replacement is a bit like discussing what type of horse the RCMP needs for the musical ride.

The real question should be: can the RCAF actually afford to try and keep up with the “big boys” (USN, USAF, RAF) with an air display team before we attend to our core mission of defending Canada?