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cdnaviator said:
You are talking like you know a LOT about RMC. Have you ever stepped foot there?
RMC Class of 2010
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You are talking like you know a LOT about RMC. Have you ever stepped foot there?
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DVessey said:
My grandfather told me a story like that a few days back, I guess it's not a new thing. The recruits he left to polish boots while he drank (and for more then 20 minutes, I might add ) would all be Senior NCO's or even retired by now. I'm sure they've seen it all
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SupersonicMax said:
Yup.........
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Have you ever been a Staff/Cadet there?
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Well, since this has exploded into quite the topic, I'd figure that I would throw in my 2 cents from my ongoing experience as an RMC ocdt... The thing is: both sides have valid points to make even though I'll side with the army guys. I am on exchange right now with the USAF and frankly, I've never been more happy about the "army" training that I recieved. If there was no army at RMC, we'd probably look alot like the Air Force academy, or the Naval academy. I did their "BCT" course (6 weeks) during the summer and have seen them doing their training during the school year. Since they have no army things to do, they take classes. Classes on anger, classes on drinking, honor, and many other things. Unfortunetly, though these classes are good courses, the cadets have no context to base the classes on, especially the leadership ones. Their definition of the "field" is a pre-set up encampment where they sleep in the tents roughly equivelent to 2 section mod tents. They fire rifles once or twice throughout their time at USAFA, have no idea how it works, and think that cleaning a rifle consists of pouring oil on the bolt. I was lectured by a chief master sergeant on the big picture, and he concluded that the "big picture" was the air force :
. I could go on forever, but I think that I have never been more thankful for my army training, and it took a look at the opposite end of the spectrum to see that. I bitched about the training when it was going on, but it has only made me stronger, never weaker; both physically and as a leader. I wish I had time for more.
On the other hand, those that aren't at RMC don't see the problems with the army training at the college. Some of the stuff we do is stupid and useless, but not because it is army training, but because we lack the rescources, or the staff to effectively do the training. Many at the college have pretty strong fellings about what goes on at the college (former NCM's in Otter Sqn included). Nobody likes it when our time gets wasted, and unfortunatly this happens at RMC a lot. The ruck marches are a good example. I don't think that rucksack marches are useless, in fact I thought it was a good idea when I first heard about it. However, a large portion of the college (we gave it away after BOTC) can't get rucksacks. The college is working on that, but in the mean time the current routine is a waste of time. Maybe they should turn it into a run, but right now marching slow circles around the college is a waste of time. I don't want to get rid of the army training, I just want it to be effective. The mistake that a lot of guys at RMC make is that they look at some of the inneffective army training that we recieve and they say "Army stuff is stupid. Let's get rid of it since I won't need it." Instead of talking about ditching the army training, we should be talking about improving it.
good night... let's try to get this one back on track instead of tossing mud around
grammar...
. I could go on forever, but I think that I have never been more thankful for my army training, and it took a look at the opposite end of the spectrum to see that. I bitched about the training when it was going on, but it has only made me stronger, never weaker; both physically and as a leader. I wish I had time for more.On the other hand, those that aren't at RMC don't see the problems with the army training at the college. Some of the stuff we do is stupid and useless, but not because it is army training, but because we lack the rescources, or the staff to effectively do the training. Many at the college have pretty strong fellings about what goes on at the college (former NCM's in Otter Sqn included). Nobody likes it when our time gets wasted, and unfortunatly this happens at RMC a lot. The ruck marches are a good example. I don't think that rucksack marches are useless, in fact I thought it was a good idea when I first heard about it. However, a large portion of the college (we gave it away after BOTC) can't get rucksacks. The college is working on that, but in the mean time the current routine is a waste of time. Maybe they should turn it into a run, but right now marching slow circles around the college is a waste of time. I don't want to get rid of the army training, I just want it to be effective. The mistake that a lot of guys at RMC make is that they look at some of the inneffective army training that we recieve and they say "Army stuff is stupid. Let's get rid of it since I won't need it." Instead of talking about ditching the army training, we should be talking about improving it.
good night... let's try to get this one back on track instead of tossing mud around
grammar...
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Japexican said:
That a well express opinion that would sum up what I think
Max
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SupersonicMax said:
Thankfully no. Never had the desire to be. University was never my thing.....at least not back then.
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cdnaviator said:
Then how can you judge on the things they make us do at RMC?
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aesop081
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SupersonicMax said:
Because i've seen it....and its no different than any other school in the Cf where students are time compressed, have serious and difficult studies to undertake. I dont see them on here complaining
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big bad john said:
So have I.....
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From what I've seen, training officers on basic training / phase training are different than officers at RMC (their role seems different). But anyways, my point is that military stuff that we are given are pretty much useless at RMC. I wrote a memo in my 3rd year to have lectures on the CF administration system (that would be usefull for a CF officer wouldn't it?) instead of lectures on how to write a memo for the 100th time. The answer came back that it would be looked at. At the end of my 4th year : still memo lectures...
Max
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SupersonicMax said:
I understand the memo thing......i'll give you that. But it goes on in every single school in the CF so stop thinking you are something special.
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I find it intresting as I look to my future that this thread would occur...
The concept of soldiers at a FOB came up and what little rest was/is gotten while in them. I'll raise all operational requirements in a command position while in what little down time was available doing correspondence work on a degree on his own time. Now I don't need t get into his daily schedule but lets hypothesize a 10 hr patrol with orders previous and debriefings after, now throw in post patrol drills and then doing PT and then 2 sentry shifts at night and yes he found time in there to do multiple university course while maintaining a near perfect grade avg.
Remember all this is in Afghanistan in the middle of bad guy country and if he could it all without a single complaint I fail to see how the rest of you can whine about it. Remember you chose to go to RMC, you knew it was more then just an academic institution. If you can't hack it quit but stop crying foul.
PS 14 post went up while I typed I hope it's still relevant
The concept of soldiers at a FOB came up and what little rest was/is gotten while in them. I'll raise all operational requirements in a command position while in what little down time was available doing correspondence work on a degree on his own time. Now I don't need t get into his daily schedule but lets hypothesize a 10 hr patrol with orders previous and debriefings after, now throw in post patrol drills and then doing PT and then 2 sentry shifts at night and yes he found time in there to do multiple university course while maintaining a near perfect grade avg.
Remember all this is in Afghanistan in the middle of bad guy country and if he could it all without a single complaint I fail to see how the rest of you can whine about it. Remember you chose to go to RMC, you knew it was more then just an academic institution. If you can't hack it quit but stop crying foul.
PS 14 post went up while I typed I hope it's still relevant
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Thanks Infanteer,
Re: the whole bloody mess and noise about the rucksack marches and Army training; whining about/from OCdts; and sucking it up.
I am at RMC, as a UT(2 years here). I also did 13 years in first-line units, the last 8 with an infantry BN. I like Army shtuff. I will attempt to clarify a few things (for everyone interested).
To the OCdts: Rucksack marches are not for staying physically fit. I am a fat Army guy, and have been for a number of years. On BOTP this past summer, I had difficulty keeping up on the runs in the morning. When we got to the field, many of my far more fit peers had difficulty keeping up with me going 5km in webbing. It is all mental endurance. This will serve you well in every thing you do, no matter your element or trade. If you can come up with a better way to achieve this same end result, let's hear it, no more useless whining.
To everyone else: I know, I know. We "get it." We've also been doing it and more for X years. Instead of wanting to reach down their throat and squeezing, I would ask that you try to "explain" why we do things. These ones are not trained like many of us older ones were, they have been taught to question almost everything, not to waste time on useless training. They have not been told the value of such training by anyone here, therefore, it is a waste of time. One of the largest issues that came to light with this new training here is meal time. Their mess does not operate early enough for many (if not most) to get fed before or after training. At 0800 hrs, class starts (1000 on Wednesdays). Once class starts, NOTHING is allowed to interfere with that. All training MUST be done outside of these hours. Here, the Academic wing currently holds precedence over everyone else. This puts a large number of constraints on all training.
The Professional Military Training classes that we get here on Wed mornings are pretty standard and, unfortunately, very duplicated between RMC and CFLRS in St.Jean. That has started to change, but as many are aware, changing/dropping courses from a training schedule is not a simple matter, especially when there is a standards cell involved. This year is better than last year and that was better than the year before (so I am told). They are almost uniformly boring, mundane, everyday things that we must know how do to (SHARP, Public Affairs, diversification, WHIMIS, etc and yes memos).
Max (and others): maybe you know how to write a memo, but I guarantee that most do not. I have seen them. The training here/everywhere is for the majority. You will be in classes for the rest of your career that you will think are boring and useless because you already know how to do them. Try to remember that the person sitting next to you may not get it at all and needs that extra help. If you have good ideas, send them up the chain. We do all the time. It may go nowhere, but if so, it will probably be for reasons that you do not know. Want clarification, ask. What's is the worst that can happen?
Rucksacks: RMC is a training school and as such, most of the CF members here are not entitled to most of the gear that those of us in operational units take for granted. We can not get rucksacks, the supply system will not give them to us (I mean us as a unit). The Cadet Wing Sgt-Maj (and others) are trying to sort this out, but it is a horrible mess. Technically, and I have been told this to my face at clothing stores, I am no longer entitled to my ruck, my goretex bivvy bag, or any of my field kit and I should turn it all back in. I can't even exchange my goretex jacket that I have had for years because I am not entitled to it. I should be wearing the old combat jacket with my CADPAT (I am not joking, it's freaking horrible and looks retarded). And to top it all off, where the heck are we going to find 1000 rucksacks for everybody here? Think supply wants to use their budget up for that?
There is a lot more to all of this (and more) than anyone on this thread is giving it credit. Yes, my first reaction is to say "Suck it up and carry on," but I do know how many hours I do not see Mrs and little Wook because I am "working." Most would be surprised. There is a lot of whining here, but with 1000 teenagers (and 34 military staff to supervise. I am not kidding), are you really surprised?
As for walking up and speaking to the Sgt-Maj here.......he is a good cat and I have a lot of time for him, however, the emphasis here is put on using the Cadet Wing CoC and many get their peepee slapped hard for stepping around it. This place is not normal.
Please Help. :-\
Re: the whole bloody mess and noise about the rucksack marches and Army training; whining about/from OCdts; and sucking it up.
I am at RMC, as a UT(2 years here). I also did 13 years in first-line units, the last 8 with an infantry BN. I like Army shtuff. I will attempt to clarify a few things (for everyone interested).
To the OCdts: Rucksack marches are not for staying physically fit. I am a fat Army guy, and have been for a number of years. On BOTP this past summer, I had difficulty keeping up on the runs in the morning. When we got to the field, many of my far more fit peers had difficulty keeping up with me going 5km in webbing. It is all mental endurance. This will serve you well in every thing you do, no matter your element or trade. If you can come up with a better way to achieve this same end result, let's hear it, no more useless whining.
To everyone else: I know, I know. We "get it." We've also been doing it and more for X years. Instead of wanting to reach down their throat and squeezing, I would ask that you try to "explain" why we do things. These ones are not trained like many of us older ones were, they have been taught to question almost everything, not to waste time on useless training. They have not been told the value of such training by anyone here, therefore, it is a waste of time. One of the largest issues that came to light with this new training here is meal time. Their mess does not operate early enough for many (if not most) to get fed before or after training. At 0800 hrs, class starts (1000 on Wednesdays). Once class starts, NOTHING is allowed to interfere with that. All training MUST be done outside of these hours. Here, the Academic wing currently holds precedence over everyone else. This puts a large number of constraints on all training.
The Professional Military Training classes that we get here on Wed mornings are pretty standard and, unfortunately, very duplicated between RMC and CFLRS in St.Jean. That has started to change, but as many are aware, changing/dropping courses from a training schedule is not a simple matter, especially when there is a standards cell involved. This year is better than last year and that was better than the year before (so I am told). They are almost uniformly boring, mundane, everyday things that we must know how do to (SHARP, Public Affairs, diversification, WHIMIS, etc and yes memos).
Max (and others): maybe you know how to write a memo, but I guarantee that most do not. I have seen them. The training here/everywhere is for the majority. You will be in classes for the rest of your career that you will think are boring and useless because you already know how to do them. Try to remember that the person sitting next to you may not get it at all and needs that extra help. If you have good ideas, send them up the chain. We do all the time. It may go nowhere, but if so, it will probably be for reasons that you do not know. Want clarification, ask. What's is the worst that can happen?
Rucksacks: RMC is a training school and as such, most of the CF members here are not entitled to most of the gear that those of us in operational units take for granted. We can not get rucksacks, the supply system will not give them to us (I mean us as a unit). The Cadet Wing Sgt-Maj (and others) are trying to sort this out, but it is a horrible mess. Technically, and I have been told this to my face at clothing stores, I am no longer entitled to my ruck, my goretex bivvy bag, or any of my field kit and I should turn it all back in. I can't even exchange my goretex jacket that I have had for years because I am not entitled to it. I should be wearing the old combat jacket with my CADPAT (I am not joking, it's freaking horrible and looks retarded). And to top it all off, where the heck are we going to find 1000 rucksacks for everybody here? Think supply wants to use their budget up for that?
There is a lot more to all of this (and more) than anyone on this thread is giving it credit. Yes, my first reaction is to say "Suck it up and carry on," but I do know how many hours I do not see Mrs and little Wook because I am "working." Most would be surprised. There is a lot of whining here, but with 1000 teenagers (and 34 military staff to supervise. I am not kidding), are you really surprised?
As for walking up and speaking to the Sgt-Maj here.......he is a good cat and I have a lot of time for him, however, the emphasis here is put on using the Cadet Wing CoC and many get their peepee slapped hard for stepping around it. This place is not normal.
Please Help. :-\
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I think the key here is the "M" in RMC. It is a MILITARY college, and not a CIVILIAN university. Therefore, expect to do things MILITARY. Also, given the nature of army-centric training, it is usually more feasible to do things of a "green" nature. Yes, the water is right there and the air is all around us, but it's much simpler to put on a ruck (if available) and go for a "walk" than it is to do things of a naval flavour or an airforce flavour.
Also, just because your trade is "x" doesn't mean that you will be restricted to "Camp X" in where-ever land. We had Lieutenant-Commanders with us in Kabul, and a Captain (Navy) with us in Haiti, and he was a hard sea trade! Imagine that! He even had to wear the Tac Vest and TV, and you know what? He looked good doing it! (By "look good", I mean he didn't seem out of his element).
So, in short, remember the "M" in RMC, and if you can't put yourself 100% into your potential commissioning, then get out of it 100%.
Also, just because your trade is "x" doesn't mean that you will be restricted to "Camp X" in where-ever land. We had Lieutenant-Commanders with us in Kabul, and a Captain (Navy) with us in Haiti, and he was a hard sea trade! Imagine that! He even had to wear the Tac Vest and TV, and you know what? He looked good doing it! (By "look good", I mean he didn't seem out of his element).
So, in short, remember the "M" in RMC, and if you can't put yourself 100% into your potential commissioning, then get out of it 100%.
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The "M" is a large part of the problem here. Not the "M" in itself, but the lack of it. The emphasis is on the degree. Nothing is allowed to interfere with that. RMC is defiantly more College than Military, and that is not a good thing (in my opinion). Note the ratio of OCdt's to staff. 11 Sqns (11, not 10, you numptys), means 11 Capt's/Lt(N) types, 10 Snr NCO's, 1 Sgt-Maj, 1 LCol, and a handfull of admin positions (Adj, Ops and Training/Transport, etc). I am not kidding when I say 30 some staff to 1000 OCdts.
Also, the lack of connection with the rest of the CF. We need more officers, of all types, to come back here and give presentations. Where they've been, what they've done, units they've been in and tours they've been on. Tunnel vision is rampant here among the non-combat arms types. None of them seem to believe they will ever be in a situation where room service (or their steward) won't be able to sort it out. There is a miss conception that non-green trades never end up in the field, and if they do, it is extremely rare. We need to find a way to fix that, and having staff weenies come for MOC Weekend, for two days, is not enough.
edit: embarrassingly,... for spelling
Also, the lack of connection with the rest of the CF. We need more officers, of all types, to come back here and give presentations. Where they've been, what they've done, units they've been in and tours they've been on. Tunnel vision is rampant here among the non-combat arms types. None of them seem to believe they will ever be in a situation where room service (or their steward) won't be able to sort it out. There is a miss conception that non-green trades never end up in the field, and if they do, it is extremely rare. We need to find a way to fix that, and having staff weenies come for MOC Weekend, for two days, is not enough.
edit: embarrassingly,... for spelling
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