Recruiting Standards

[army]

Posted by "Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com> on Mon, 26 Feb 2001 07:04:59 -0700
Joan from Ian:
I missed the announcement, although I do know that DND had been
atempting/planning to raise the min. requirement for entry as an Officer.
Perhaps someonce can give me a summary or a URL for review. I‘ve also heard
from several sources that the minimum age limit for entry to the PRes has
been lowered to 16. I would like confirmation on that if someone can.
My personal opinion is that 16 is too low. That‘s what it was when I joined
and that‘s what the age min. was for many years. Doubtless it helps in
bringing in recruits. But that one year or half a year makes a big
difference in the maturity and to some degree physical strength suppose
standards will not be downgraded of the young entrants. I was 16 when I
joined and there was a tendency for the "Student Militia" to be considered
just older cadets but then we had many that were underage - docs weren‘t
checked as much then. And of course this lowering will have a drastic
effect on the Cadet Movement - "stealing" senior cadets at just the age when
their training and leadership is most needed. Well, as I said somwhere in a
recent posting, it‘s a question of whether the Pres is "needin‘ or feedin‘ "
and obviously they are needin‘.
----- Original Message -----
From: Joan O. Arc
To:
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:08 AM
Subject: Re: QMSI
>
John,
>
> Given some of your comments below, I take it, then, that you probably
agree
> with the announcement or was it just speculation? last week re: new
> recruiting standards/targets for the CF? More education, intellectual
> flexibility, etc., espec. among the officer class...
>
> Apologies if you guys have already covered this issue - I‘m running
behind
> on the discussion, I‘m afraid. Caught the punch recipes, though. Groovy.
To
> think that in college the best we could come up with was lemonade, vodka
and
> - yikes! - blue curacao...
>
> Terribly sorry to hear about your mom. Glad, though, that the "Big Guy"
was
> listening to your prayers.
>
> : Joan
> Yes, I‘m back!
>
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[army]

Posted by "Peter deVries" <rsm_kes_cc254@hotmail.com> on Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:30:52
Ian,
Yeah, you only have to be 16 when you join the PRes, but you have to be
17 by the time you complete your QL3. At least, this is what I heard was
going on in my regiment.
Peter
>From: "Ian Edwards"
>Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>To:
>Subject: Recruiting Standards
>Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 07:04:59 -0700
>
>Joan from Ian:
>
>I missed the announcement, although I do know that DND had been
>atempting/planning to raise the min. requirement for entry as an Officer.
>Perhaps someonce can give me a summary or a URL for review. I‘ve also heard
>from several sources that the minimum age limit for entry to the PRes has
>been lowered to 16. I would like confirmation on that if someone can.
>
>My personal opinion is that 16 is too low. That‘s what it was when I
>joined
>and that‘s what the age min. was for many years. Doubtless it helps in
>bringing in recruits. But that one year or half a year makes a big
>difference in the maturity and to some degree physical strength suppose
>standards will not be downgraded of the young entrants. I was 16 when I
>joined and there was a tendency for the "Student Militia" to be considered
>just older cadets but then we had many that were underage - docs weren‘t
>checked as much then. And of course this lowering will have a drastic
>effect on the Cadet Movement - "stealing" senior cadets at just the age
>when
>their training and leadership is most needed. Well, as I said somwhere in a
>recent posting, it‘s a question of whether the Pres is "needin‘ or feedin‘
>"
>and obviously they are needin‘.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Joan O. Arc
>To:
>Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:08 AM
>Subject: Re: QMSI
>
>
> >
> John,
> >
> > Given some of your comments below, I take it, then, that you probably
>agree
> > with the announcement or was it just speculation? last week re: new
> > recruiting standards/targets for the CF? More education, intellectual
> > flexibility, etc., espec. among the officer class...
> >
> > Apologies if you guys have already covered this issue - I‘m running
>behind
> > on the discussion, I‘m afraid. Caught the punch recipes, though.
>Groovy.
>To
> > think that in college the best we could come up with was lemonade, vodka
>and
> > - yikes! - blue curacao...
> >
> > Terribly sorry to hear about your mom. Glad, though, that the "Big Guy"
>was
> > listening to your prayers.
> >
> > : Joan
> > Yes, I‘m back!
> >
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>message body.
_________________________________________________________________________
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--------------------------------------------------------
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[army]

Posted by "Joan O. Arc" <joan_o_arc@hotmail.com> on Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:29:08 -0000
Ian,
Unfortunately, I can‘t give you a URL or exact reference. I*think* it was an
item on the CBC or maybe CTV evening news one night last week when I was
off the list. I remember, because I wished at the time that I was still
*on* the list so I could ask people what they thought about it!, but a
search of the CBC archives yields nothing, so maybe I dreamed the whole
thing up, or something.
Sorry ‘bout that,
Joan
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Peter deVries"
Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:30:52
Ian,
Yeah, you only have to be 16 when you join the PRes, but you have to be
17 by the time you complete your QL3. At least, this is what I heard was
going on in my regiment.
Peter
>From: "Ian Edwards"
>Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>To:
>Subject: Recruiting Standards
>Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 07:04:59 -0700
>
>Joan from Ian:
>
>I missed the announcement, although I do know that DND had been
>atempting/planning to raise the min. requirement for entry as an Officer.
>Perhaps someonce can give me a summary or a URL for review. I‘ve also heard
>from several sources that the minimum age limit for entry to the PRes has
>been lowered to 16. I would like confirmation on that if someone can.
>
>My personal opinion is that 16 is too low. That‘s what it was when I
>joined
>and that‘s what the age min. was for many years. Doubtless it helps in
>bringing in recruits. But that one year or half a year makes a big
>difference in the maturity and to some degree physical strength suppose
>standards will not be downgraded of the young entrants. I was 16 when I
>joined and there was a tendency for the "Student Militia" to be considered
>just older cadets but then we had many that were underage - docs weren‘t
>checked as much then. And of course this lowering will have a drastic
>effect on the Cadet Movement - "stealing" senior cadets at just the age
>when
>their training and leadership is most needed. Well, as I said somwhere in a
>recent posting, it‘s a question of whether the Pres is "needin‘ or feedin‘
>"
>and obviously they are needin‘.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Joan O. Arc
>To:
>Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:08 AM
>Subject: Re: QMSI
>
>
> >
> John,
> >
> > Given some of your comments below, I take it, then, that you probably
>agree
> > with the announcement or was it just speculation? last week re: new
> > recruiting standards/targets for the CF? More education, intellectual
> > flexibility, etc., espec. among the officer class...
> >
> > Apologies if you guys have already covered this issue - I‘m running
>behind
> > on the discussion, I‘m afraid. Caught the punch recipes, though.
>Groovy.
>To
> > think that in college the best we could come up with was lemonade, vodka
>and
> > - yikes! - blue curacao...
> >
> > Terribly sorry to hear about your mom. Glad, though, that the "Big Guy"
>was
> > listening to your prayers.
> >
> > : Joan
> > Yes, I‘m back!
> >
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>message body.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
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[army]

Posted by "Mathew Snoddon" <msnoddon@hotmail.com> on Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:27:44 -0500
The age limit is in fact at 16. As far as I know the physical standards
have not been changed to reflect this, but then again it doesn‘t matter.
They are so low anyways that I would be surprised if someone that age
couldn‘t meet them.
Matt S
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[army]

Posted by Juno847627709@aol.com on Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:28:40 EST
I was obviously speaking just about NCM‘s.
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[army]

Posted by Juno847627709@aol.com on Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:28:21 EST
Ian and all, as you know I‘m only 16, but joining the reserve and am
targeting to get on a QL2 or possibly a QL2/3 combined course this summer.
I totally see where you‘d be coming from with being sceptaclesp? about
letting in youngin‘s of 16 years.
I think for the most part, 16 would be too young. Reasoning: Most 16 year
olds haven‘t done a REAL long stretch away from home, and lived under
somewhat stressful circumstancesie: been to university, or whatever Those
first coupla weeks of basic could be killer for one this unexperienced.
Also, mental toughness is almost certainly not there, I wouldn‘t think.
LastlyI think, being ‘under-age‘ doesn‘t help your inclusion with the
‘lads‘. Alas, I hear stories about getting green troops smashed, etc, then
running ‘em sick the next morning.Not that running is needed in the recipe
for sickness on the next morn
However, there are circumstances where one could be *somewhat*
experiencedlike Cadet camps, which I KNOW ARE NOTHING like ‘real‘ camps, but
still it gives a sense of put up or go home.Atleast it used to Also, some
kids are just naturally a little more mentally and physically suited for
military life, atleast for relatively short periods.
I think, overall, that 16 is a little young, but alternatively, I‘d be
kinda pissy if I wasn‘t allowed to be processed ‘till next june/july.
So I guess if the standards aren‘t lowered AT ALL, there‘s little harm in
incuding us lads.
-Matt
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[army]

Posted by Greg Hawes <hawes@SEDSystems.ca> on Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:57:30 -0600 (CST)
As per the Recruiting Information Guide:
http://209.82.43.37/main_frame.html
Basic Eligibility
Before enrolment in the Canadian Forces, you must meet the following criteria:
* be a Canadian Citizen
* be 18 years of age, or 16 with parents‘ permission
* have a minimum grade 10 education at a provincial
standard
* be free of any legal obligations
greg
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[army]

Posted by "Tom Campbell" <tomcampbell@canada.com> on Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:05:51 -0500
I can verify that. I spent last summer as a Basic Recruit Training Section
Commander in Sunny Meaford. In my Section I had around five or six Recruits
who were 16. Personally I found very little difference between them and
Recruits who were older. It had more to do with their maturity which I have
found to be independent of age.
Prior to last summer I know this surprised my Recruiting NCO at my Unit so
much that he had to get confirmation from higher that we were allowed to
recruit 16 year olds.
----------
Tom Campbell
from Work
TomCampbell@canada.com
ICQ - i can‘t remember right now
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[army]

Posted by CoastDanny@aol.com on Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:24:26 EST
Just a thought, a quick phone call to the nearest CFRC should clear that
issue up.
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[army]

Posted by "Wm. Durrant" <lgunnerl@home.com> on Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:33:37 -0500
Greg,
    Troops under the age of 18 can not be put in an operational theatre.
-Bill

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Greg Hawes"
  To:
  Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 3:57 PM
  Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards
  >
  > As per the Recruiting Information Guide:
  >    http://209.82.43.37/main_frame.html 
  >
  > Basic Eligibility
  >
  > Before enrolment in the Canadian Forces, you must meet the following
criteria:
  >
  > * be a Canadian Citizen
  > * be 18 years of age, or 16 with parents' permission
  > * have a minimum grade 10 education at a provincial
  >    standard
  > *  be free of any legal obligations
  >
  > greg
  >
  >
  > --------------------------------------------------------
  > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
  > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
  > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
  > message body.
BODY
BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top MARGIN-TOP: 50px FONT-WEIGHT: bold
FONT-SIZE: 10pt COLOR: 000000 BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat
FONT-FAMILY: Arial
Greg,
Troops under the age of 18 can not be put in an
operational theatre.
-Bill
 
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Greg Hawes" lthawes@SEDSystems.cagt
  To: ltarmy-list@CdnArmy.cagt
  Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 3:57 PM
  Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards
  gt gt As per the Recruiting Information
Guide:gt
    http://209.82.43.37/main_fra
me.html
  gt gt Basic Eligibilitygt gt Before enrolment
in the
  Canadian Forces, you must meet the following criteria:gt
gt * be a
  Canadian Citizen gt * be 18 years of age, or 16 with parents'
permission
  gt * have a minimum grade 10 education at a provincial gt
  standard gt * be free of any legal
obligations
  gt gt greggt gt gt
  --------------------------------------------------------gt
NOTE:
  To remove yourself from this list, send a messagegt to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the
account
  you wish togt remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in
  thegt message body.

 

[army]

Posted by "Joan O. Arc" <joan_o_arc@hotmail.com> on Tue, 27 Feb 2001 00:00:13 -0000
As I recall, whatever I saw, or read, suggested that, among other things,
the minimum educational requirement be increased from Grade 10 to high
school graduation.
Maybe it was an op. ed. in the Globe and Mail by a general or military
policy analyst or something. Anyway, sorry to have raised the issue without
being able to provide more specifics...
- Joan
----Original Message Follows----
From: CoastDanny@aol.com
Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:24:26 EST
Just a thought, a quick phone call to the nearest CFRC should clear that
issue up.
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[army]

Posted by "Wm. Durrant" <lgunnerl@home.com> on Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:39:15 -0500
--Hopefully, we won‘t need to find out.
-bill
That makes more sense on the Armed Forces part. Are those peacetime
rules, or are they wartime as well?
Thanks,
Greg.
BODY
BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top MARGIN-TOP: 50px FONT-WEIGHT: bold
FONT-SIZE: 10pt COLOR: 000000 BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat
FONT-FAMILY: Arial

--Hopefully, we won‘t need to find
out.

-bill


That makes more sense on the Armed Forces part. Are those
peacetime
rules, or are they wartime as well?

Thanks,

Greg.


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[army]

Posted by "Mathew Snoddon" <msnoddon@hotmail.com> on Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:48:11 -0500
I assume it‘s a national standard, but here in LFQA the education standard
is Grade 9 english, french and math. Although I am skeptical about the
french requirement elsewhere in Canada.
Matt S
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[army]

Posted by "Mathew Snoddon" <msnoddon@hotmail.com> on Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:50:53 -0500
Here a little correction to my last post. I just happened to see on the DND
page that it is grade 9 for Quebec and grade 10 everywhere else in Canada.
Matt S
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[army]

Posted by "Wm. Durrant" <lgunnerl@home.com> on Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:12:18 -0500
Matt,
Grade 9 French is a requirement for all secondary school diplomas in
Canada. After grade 9, however, it is an elective. The requirement for
application to the CF is 15 credits grade 10 1/2
-bill out of the closet Lurker
----- Original Message -----
From: Mathew Snoddon
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards
I assume it‘s a national standard, but here in LFQA the education
standard
is Grade 9 english, french and math. Although I am skeptical about
the
french requirement elsewhere in Canada.
Matt S

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Matt,
Grade 9 French is a
requirementfor all
secondary school diplomas in Canada. After grade 9, however,
itis an
elective. The requirement for application to the CF is 15
credits
grade 10 1/2
-bill outof the closet
Lurker
----- Original Message -----
From:
Mathew
Snoddon
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001
7:48
PM
Subject: Re: Recruiting
Standards
I assume it‘s a national standard, but here in LFQA the
education standard is Grade 9 english, french and math.
Although I
am skeptical about the french requirement elsewhere in
Canada.Matt

S____________________________________________________________________
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[army]

Posted by "Wm. Durrant" <lgunnerl@home.com> on Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:21:21 -0500
Me too. Didn‘t know that about Quebec,,,,,,,wondering why?
-bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Mathew Snoddon
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards, correction
Here a little correction to my last post. I just happened to see on
the DND
page that it is grade 9 for Quebec and grade 10 everywhere else in
Canada.
Matt S

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Me too. Didn‘t know that
about
Quebec,,,,,,,wondering why?
-bill
----- Original Message -----
From:
Mathew
Snoddon
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001
7:50
PM
Subject: Re: Recruiting
Standards,
correction
Here a little correction to my last post. I just
happened
to see on the DND page that it is grade 9 for Quebec and grade 10
everywhere else in Canada.Matt

S____________________________________________________________________
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[army]

Posted by Jean-Francois Menicucci <menicucci@videotron.ca> on Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:13:04 -0500
--------------1DE8036573E2122725D0905C
Back from Ottawa.
Here in Qubec we are a different system that was implemented in the
60‘s
we have 5 years of High School grade 7 to 12
Then if you continue you hace CEGEP uselesss place where you spend 2
or three years depending on program
then if you continue you have university for 3 years.
"Wm. Durrant" wrote:
> Me too. Didn‘t know that about Quebec,,,,,,,wondering why? -bill
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mathew Snoddon
> To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 7:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards, correction
> Here a little correction to my last post. I just happened
> to see on the DND
> page that it is grade 9 for Quebec and grade 10 everywhere
> else in Canada.
>
> Matt S
> ______
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> http://www.hotmail.com.
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> message body.
>
--------------1DE8036573E2122725D0905C
Back from Ottawa.
Here in Queacutebec we are a different system that was implemented
in the 60‘s
we have 5 years of High School grade 7 to 12
Then if you continue you hace CEGEP uselesss place where you spend
2 or three years depending on program
then if you continue you have university for 3 years.
"Wm. Durrant" wrote:
Me
too. Didn‘t know that about Quebec,,,,,,,wondering why?-bill
----- Original Message -----
From:
Mathew
Snoddon
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 7:50
PM
Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards,
correction
Here a little correction to my last post. I just happened to
see on the DND
page that it is grade 9 for Quebec and grade 10 everywhere else in
Canada.
Matt S
_________________________________________________________________________
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--------------1DE8036573E2122725D0905C--
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[army]

Posted by "Jay Digital" <todesengel@home.com> on Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:16:10 -0500
I think it‘s because of the high school system in Quebec. It tends to be
a little more advanced as high school is only grades 9-11 and then
there‘s an additional 2 year sort of prep for university. I guess since
they don‘t have a grade 12 then all the years are bumped up somewhat.
----- Original Message -----
From: Wm. Durrant
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards, correction
Me too. Didn‘t know that about Quebec,,,,,,,wondering why?
-bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Mathew Snoddon
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards, correction
Here a little correction to my last post. I just happened to see on
the DND
page that it is grade 9 for Quebec and grade 10 everywhere else in
Canada.
Matt S

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I think it‘s because
of the high
school system in Quebec. It tends to be a little more advanced as high
school is
only grades 9-11 and then there‘s an additional 2 year sort of prep for
university. I guess since they don‘t have a grade 12 then all the years
are
bumped up somewhat.
----- Original Message -----
From:
Wm.
Durrant

To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001
8:21
PM
Subject: Re: Recruiting
Standards,
correction

Me too. Didn‘t know that
about
Quebec,,,,,,,wondering why?

-bill

----- Original Message -----
From:
Mathew
Snoddon
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Sent: Monday, February 26,
2001 7:50
PM
Subject: Re: Recruiting
Standards,
correction
Here a little correction to my last post. I
just
happened to see on the DND page that it is grade 9 for Quebec
and grade
10 everywhere else in Canada.Matt

S____________________________________________________________________
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[army]

Posted by Juno847627709@aol.com on Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:38:22 EST
SomeoneI think Bill offered that troops under 18 yrs. can not move into an
operational theatre, or something along those lines.
So, ifI know it won‘t happen, but just for arguement‘s sake a 17yr old
kid‘s unit was sent overseas for either aiding some civil power or actually
warfighting, the soldier mentioned would ‘sit on *** and rotate?‘
So why even allow ‘kids‘ under that age in if they can‘t actually serve
during a military crisis?
Maybe I misunderstood.
Comments?
-Matt
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[army]

Posted by "Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com> on Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:54:35 -0700
Well, again I am guilty of trying to talk from personal, outdated
experience. The 16 year old of today is not the same as the 16 year old of
1959. I can‘t recall what year it was first raised to 17, but I noticed a
general increase in the quality of PRes soldiers and how difficult it
immediatly became to recruit them but other variables may have influenced
my view.
However, there must be a difference in a platoon of some 16 year old‘s and
some older recruits/trained soldiers and a platoon of just 16 year olds. The
presence of large number of older solders must have both a good and a bad
effect on the qualities exhibited by the younger ones. Around 1960, to show
you how wrong it was, a former cadet with Cadet Leader Instructor I think
completion could be made an automatic Corporal now section commander upon
entry. That was sure wrong, even though many good NCOs entered that way.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Campbell
To:
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards
> I can verify that. I spent last summer as a Basic Recruit Training Section
> Commander in Sunny Meaford. In my Section I had around five or six
Recruits
> who were 16. Personally I found very little difference between them and
> Recruits who were older. It had more to do with their maturity which I
have
> found to be independent of age.
>
> Prior to last summer I know this surprised my Recruiting NCO at my Unit so
> much that he had to get confirmation from higher that we were allowed to
> recruit 16 year olds.
>
> ----------
> Tom Campbell
> from Work
>
> TomCampbell@canada.com
> ICQ - i can‘t remember right now
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