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"Re-Royalization", "Re-Britification" and the Heritage Transformation

The RCN has its old rank titles and executive curl back. What should be the next step for the CF ra

  • Nothing. The current rank system works, so leave it alone.

    Votes: 128 55.9%
  • Complete return to the pre-unification ranks of the 50s and early 60s.

    Votes: 47 20.5%
  • Complete return to post unification ranks of the 70s and early 80s.

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • Officers only return to the pre-unification ranks of the 50s and early 60s.

    Votes: 9 3.9%
  • Copy the UK rank system - it is the prototype anyway.

    Votes: 20 8.7%
  • Copy the US rank system - they are the new colonial master.

    Votes: 4 1.7%
  • Create a whole new Canadian system.

    Votes: 9 3.9%
  • Lobby for standardized NATO rank insignia.

    Votes: 9 3.9%
  • Copy the French rank system - it is the other founding nation's turn

    Votes: 2 0.9%

  • Total voters
    229

Furniture

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What about the EXPEDITION SSM?
I suspect most Expedition SSMs are given to the navy, and they tend to do medal presentations in NCDs or 3Bs when deployed.

Edit: I got my SSM and second bar in the mail years after my deployments. If the cost of getting people their medals in a timely manner is presenting them in CADPAT, then present them. Nobody should have to wait months/years for a medal, just so it works out well with the command team to put on DEUs.
 

Eye In The Sky

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I suspect most Expedition SSMs are given to the navy, and they tend to do medal presentations in NCDs or 3Bs when deployed.

Edit: I got my SSM and second bar in the mail years after my deployments. If the cost of getting people their medals in a timely manner is presenting them in CADPAT, then present them. Nobody should have to wait months/years for a medal, just so it works out well with the command team to put on DEUs.

In the LRP community, you never get a gong until well after returning for the deployment. Even ones that aren’t linked to flying days.

My CD2 was due in 2021, shows on my MonMass MPRR with an obtention date of July 2022 and I’ve not seen it as the Sqn is waiting for a H and A day as you describe.
 

eliminator

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SSM-NATO and SSM-Expedition are dished out regularly on deployed ops, as they now only need 45 days deployed are not engraved with the recipiants details. Lots of folks on Op UNIFIER and Op REASSURANCE were receiving them at the end of their tours, before returning home.

Most, if not all, SSM-Alert medals are issued upon return to the home unit as members still require 180 days to qualify...and most of the tours are in the 185ish day range.

Side note, the CA is still looking for a mechanism to indicate multiple-rotations on the SSM....similar to the rotation bars on the GCS/GSM/OSM. But that's going to be complicated without something drastic, such as new ribbons. Guess they should have gone with mission specific bars ('OP UNIFIER 2019' or 'UKRAINE 20XX') vice the easy button EXPEDITION. I suppose they could also go with different coloured SSM bars, like the SSI. I'll stop there.
 

torg003

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I personally think the SSM is outdated and should be dropped. There is also the fact that the medallion part looks basically the same as the MB and kind of cheapens the MB (IMO). Why not create an OSM NATO and a Canadian Arctic Service Medal that would be used to recognize all service in the arctic (not just Alert and Ranger). I know it will never happen.
 

NavalMoose

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I personally think the SSM is outdated and should be dropped. There is also the fact that the medallion part looks basically the same as the MB and kind of cheapens the MB (IMO). Why not create an OSM NATO and a Canadian Arctic Service Medal that would be used to recognize all service in the arctic (not just Alert and Ranger). I know it will never happen.
Using that logic, how many medals that have The Queen on the medallion need to be replaced or dropped? Maybe there is a reason for the unique colourful ribbon that goes with each gong.
 

daftandbarmy

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Just noting that a photo about 'silly hats' has now devolved into a passionate discussion about H & A issues... ;)

Jimmy Fallon Idk GIF by The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon
 

dimsum

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I personally think the SSM is outdated and should be dropped. There is also the fact that the medallion part looks basically the same as the MB and kind of cheapens the MB (IMO).
I don't know about you, but the main way of recognizing a medal is the ribbon, not the medallion itself.

Why not create an OSM NATO and a Canadian Arctic Service Medal that would be used to recognize all service in the arctic (not just Alert and Ranger). I know it will never happen.
An OSM NATO is redundant, no? NATO already issues a medal for their operations - the reason why Canada didn't award them for OP ATHENA (other countries did for their equivalent missions) is because of our policy of not awarding multiple medals for the same operation.
 

torg003

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The point I was trying to make about the SSM was that the medal uses the same design as the Medal for Bravery and that it should never had been done that way, mainly out of respect for those people who performed braved deeds and got the MB. It's not like they couldn't have come up with a different design if they weren't keen on putting the monarch on the front. Just off the top of my head, they could've put the royal cypher inside a maple leaf on the front and "FOR BRAVERY" (in English and French) inside a wreath on the back.
Anyway, this is taking the discussion off the original topic considering this started out discussing ranks and uniforms, not service medals.
 

dimsum

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Just noting that a photo about 'silly hats' has now devolved into a passionate discussion about H & A issues... ;)
Kinda makes the whole argument of "no one cares about buttons and bows (and medals)" a little bit mistaken, no?

People, both in and formerly-in uniform, definitely do.

When people say that only "Boomers" care about dress regs issues, I mention the Rouleau Roll and the excitement on CAF Reddit.
 

eliminator

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I don't know about you, but the main way of recognizing a medal is the ribbon, not the medallion itself.


An OSM NATO is redundant, no? NATO already issues a medal for their operations - the reason why Canada didn't award them for OP ATHENA (other countries did for their equivalent missions) is because of our policy of not awarding multiple medals for the same operation.

Perhaps Canada needs to stop formally accepting NATO and UN medals and create an actual Canadian honour. Just look at what happened in Mali (as noted in the post-mission AAR): discontent with honours as some members received the OSM-HUMANITAS while others received the UN MINUSMA medal based solely on CFTPO and UN politics. (note: Both groups qualified for CPSM)

That is, one group received a high-quality Canadian honour with their name and SN engraved on the edge, bearing the Sovereign of Canada...while the other recieved a cheap UN medal that can be found on ebay for $10.

UN and NATO medals should become 'keepsakes', not for wear... or we just go wild like Australia and NZLD with double-medal'ing.

Moreover, we tend to break our own rules: Issue an OSM when no NATO or UN medal is available...yet look at Afghanistan: troops didnt want the NATO-ISAF medal because it was thought, "...NATO medals being mostly associated, in their view, with peacekeeping service in the Balkans and not a combat mission." Why did Canada refuse NATO’s Afghanistan medal for its troops?

And then look at the Libya mission. We accepted the NATO medal. No consideration for a Libya GCS/GSM or OSM.

Sorry, rabbit-hole. Back to hats! RCAF/Air DEU members should be able to buy their new ball caps from Canex in the coming months to wear in combats and flights suits. New 'hi-vis' silver ranks and nametags coming too!

RCAF 100th in 2024. Peaked caps coming back?

What a time to be alive!
 

rmc_wannabe

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Kinda makes the whole argument of "no one cares about buttons and bows (and medals)" a little bit mistaken, no?

People, both in and formerly-in uniform, definitely do.

When people say that only "Boomers" care about dress regs issues, I mention the Rouleau Roll and the excitement on CAF Reddit.
It's honestly the only part of our image/branding we as individuals have a solid grasp on and see meaningful change in during a 5-10 year career path .

No one but those high in the food chain of government/NDHQ can see what vehicle I will be rolling around in 10 years from now, what weapon I will be firing after the C7/8ABC123, or which aircraft or ship will replace the museum pieces we have in our recruitment posters.

What we do see are small changes to appearance/dress over the course of time. It's been 16 years and I have seen changes in Beret colour, rank structure, uniform cut and appearance, dress and grooming standards, and much more. All while still using the TCCCS comms suite in my LSVW CP variant that entered service when I started 1st Grade.

Much like orders; most folks are going to brush over the higher level intent stuff, head straight to Groupings and Tasks, and try to figure out how the thing affects them personally. Dress, pay, and personal well being top theblist compared to National Procurement in most folks brains.
 

FSTO

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Sorry, rabbit-hole. Back to hats! RCAF/Air DEU members should be able to buy their new ball caps from Canex in the coming months to wear in combats and flights suits. New 'hi-vis' silver ranks and nametags coming too!

RCAF 100th in 2024. Peaked caps coming back?

What a time to be alive!
Does that mean that the invisible RCAF rank on the CADPAT will go the way of the buggy whip?
 

eliminator

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Does that mean that the invisible RCAF rank on the CADPAT will go the way of the buggy whip?
I do believe so. Unless they decide to retain the current stuff for possible tactical situations. But I think we are beyond that now.

I'm sure it will all be sorted out just in time for the new pattern of combats to arrive! Unless the air force decides to continue with CADPAT to be distinct from the army?
 
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