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Ottawa unveils details of Nova Scotia carbon tax that will take effect next summer

Halifax Tar

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Is home heating oil still widely used in NS? I swtiched over my house in Halifax 15 years ago to a wood fire, and it paid for itself in a single winter, but at the time the price had gone doubled and was costing something like $600/month for heating oil (old drafty house with bad insulation).

It was a bit lean for a bit to pay for the fireplace, but I would have had to move otherwise.

Very much so. According to the link it was 36% in 2019.

We switched to propane a couple years ago.

 

Navy_Pete

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Very much so. According to the link it was 36% in 2019.

We switched to propane a couple years ago.

Yikes, I had no idea it was still so widespread. This carbon tax is going to really hurt, I fundamentally disagree with it on home heating fuels, as it's really not an option.

There are a lot of subsidized home upgrade programs and rebates, but you still need to be able to pay for a large portion or fork out the money first. Can't do that if you are getting nailed by an extra tax (although there have been rebates in place for 15+ years for home efficiency upgrades, with a lot of additional ones coming up over the years, so my sympathy is somewhat limited for the homeowners that will now be doing a surprised pikachu and haven't been paying attention as the cost of heating oil has gone up threefold).
 

Halifax Tar

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Yikes, I had no idea it was still so widespread. This carbon tax is going to really hurt, I fundamentally disagree with it on home heating fuels, as it's really not an option.

There are a lot of subsidized home upgrade programs and rebates, but you still need to be able to pay for a large portion or fork out the money first. Can't do that if you are getting nailed by an extra tax (although there have been rebates in place for 15+ years for home efficiency upgrades, with a lot of additional ones coming up over the years, so my sympathy is somewhat limited for the homeowners that will now be doing a surprised pikachu and haven't been paying attention as the cost of heating oil has gone up threefold).

You find it most in the older, hard knock neighborhoods (like mine) and rural areas where its almost 100% the heating source.

So this new tax will directly affect the fixed and lower income households. These families generally don't have the means, even with the rebates, to afford the switch to other means.

Right now home heating oil is over 2$ a liter. At 900L being the average size of tank, that's a lot of money. 1800$ +/- every couple of months is no small ask.

Sadly, I don't think this will have any impact on federal electoral outcomes.
 

Good2Golf

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Sadly, I don't think this will have any impact on federal electoral outcomes.
You’re probably right, HT, although the impact in NS will be largely federal LPC supporters, the math doesn’t compare to the vote-rich 905 belt mostly in natural gas.
 

Navy_Pete

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You find it most in the older, hard knock neighborhoods (like mine) and rural areas where its almost 100% the heating source.

So this new tax will directly affect the fixed and lower income households. These families generally don't have the means, even with the rebates, to afford the switch to other means.

Right now home heating oil is over 2$ a liter. At 900L being the average size of tank, that's a lot of money. 1800$ +/- every couple of months is no small ask.

Sadly, I don't think this will have any impact on federal electoral outcomes.
That's nuts; I couldn't afford it when it hit $0.80/litre. I was in the same kind of neighbourhood, and it was a struggle for sure for me. I don't think rebate programs work for a lot of people, so goverment backed loans would probably make more sesne. Especially with how much rent costs, people definitely get caught where they can't afford to move, but can't really afford to live where they are either.

If the NS government can give Irving a forgiveable $250M loan, they can afford to back loans for people not to freeze in their home.
 

SeaKingTacco

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I would note that elections have consequences.

The Liberals made no secret of their carbon tax plans. Yet, Nova Scotia still voted strongly Liberal last election.

I fail to see how anyone could not understand the outcome…
 

Halifax Tar

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That's nuts; I couldn't afford it when it hit $0.80/litre. I was in the same kind of neighbourhood, and it was a struggle for sure for me. I don't think rebate programs work for a lot of people, so goverment backed loans would probably make more sesne. Especially with how much rent costs, people definitely get caught where they can't afford to move, but can't really afford to live where they are either.

If the NS government can give Irving a forgiveable $250M loan, they can afford to back loans for people not to freeze in their home.

The NS Gov had a carbon plan that was in place. But it wasn't the Fed Liberal plan. It was actually a provincial Liberal plan.


I would note that elections have consequences.

The Liberals made no secret of their carbon tax plans. Yet, Nova Scotia still voted strongly Liberal last election.

I fail to see how anyone could not understand the outcome…

Isn't it amazing ? And they will again too.
 

Brad Sallows

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Subsidies for new tech and upgrades are basically gifts to people who are already well enough off to afford to buy whatever is being subsidized in the first place. Not exactly the kind of individual transfers that are helpful when other needs so obviously exceed revenues.
 

Weinie

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You find it most in the older, hard knock neighborhoods (like mine) and rural areas where its almost 100% the heating source.

So this new tax will directly affect the fixed and lower income households. These families generally don't have the means, even with the rebates, to afford the switch to other means.

Right now home heating oil is over 2$ a liter. At 900L being the average size of tank, that's a lot of money. 1800$ +/- every couple of months is no small ask.

Sadly, I don't think this will have any impact on federal electoral outcomes.
Yup. My sister pays more to fill her tank once than I paid for natural gas to heat a big house in Ottawa annually. She could have switched to natural gas, but the company wanted $45K to bring it to her house.
 

Halifax Tar

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Yup. My sister pays more to fill her tank once than I paid for natural gas to heat a big house in Ottawa annually. She could have switched to natural gas, but the company wanted $45K to bring it to her house.

Thats the whole reason I installed the propane boiler and system I did. It has a connection to NATGAS as well. Which is one street away. All I need is the line run.

I feel for your sister. I think there will be lots of hard decisions made this winter.
 

Navy_Pete

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Aside from the cost, there was a spate of greasy junkies cutting the copper line from the tanks to the house for a couple dollars of scrap value, and causing hundreds of thousands in enviromental damage when the oil all ran out into the dirt (and seeped into the foundation). That was about 12 years ago, and think the scrap dealers got a massive kicking from the police on that one in their investigation for stolen goods. Don't think there were charges but they were definitely getting watched.

Those greasy buggers are pretty sketchy anyway though; used to have to regularly send the MPs around the scrap yards looking for big expensive bronze valve and components that disappeared off the shelves.

Getting sidetracked though; I think particularly for people on the margins, just makes sense to have government backed loans for those kind of upgrades. A few hundred a month on a loan repayment is a lot easier to handle then $500+ a month on home heating.
 

Fishbone Jones

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Wood isn't a practical option in most urban areas. Neither is coal. It's fine to do something with all the beetle-killed timber, but eventually people will have to confront the insanity of burning perfectly healthy trees.
We have plenty of downed and cleared trees around here, cheap. We can do a full cord for around $150 and work. Or you can be lazy and have a face cord delivered for $50 - $75. No, it isn't the perfect solution. When the government makes it near impossible to purchase fuel oil, LNG, LP or electric heat, during the Canadian winter, the environment and climate change move to the bottom of the list as a cause de-jour. Especially when the whole problem is perceived as the fault of the government and flawed science. Practical people stop listening to 'experts' when their canned good are freezing in the cupboard and your open fridge door is warmer than the room your in. Your not leaving them a choice.
 

MJP

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Yup. My sister pays more to fill her tank once than I paid for natural gas to heat a big house in Ottawa annually. She could have switched to natural gas, but the company wanted $45K to bring it to her house.
Having never used oil before the sticker shock filling up this year was palpable. I am already looking at switching to heat pump and electric furnace options
 

OldSolduer

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We have plenty of downed and cleared trees around here, cheap. We can do a full cord for around $150 and work. Or you can be lazy and have a face cord delivered for $50 - $75. No, it isn't the perfect solution. When the government makes it near impossible to purchase fuel oil, LNG, LP or electric heat, during the Canadian winter, the environment and climate change move to the bottom of the list as a cause de-jour. Especially when the whole problem is perceived as the fault of the government and flawed science. Practical people stop listening to 'experts' when their canned good are freezing in the cupboard and your open fridge door is warmer than the room your in. Your not leaving them a choice.

Mazlow’s Hierarchy of Needs trumps Environmental concerns,

I think maybe some people never looked at Maslow or choose to ignore it
 
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