Ontario Majority Government 2022-2026 (?)

[Good2Golf]

Bus services also lose money, the difference is, a train moves a lot of people around very efficiently.

When it’s not throwing axels and standing riders for hours at a time and taking weeks to repair…

 

[Furniture]

When it’s not throwing axels and standing riders for hours at a time and taking weeks to repair…

I'm not pretending our LRT is perfect, but there are lots or subways and LRT services in the world that do great work. The reason we aren't there yet is mostly down to the fact we waited until too late to start. We pretended that busses were enough, because they had been for a long time. It's akin to the CAF pretending that not having AD was ok, because we hadn't needed it for a couple of decades. I'm sure our new AD systems will have a lot of expensive failures as we figure it out again as well... Yet I suspect that nobody on this forum will propose we go back to not having AD because it was cheaper.

Canadian cities love to pretend they are small towns, and forget that infrastructure and transit are part of being "grown up" cities.

 

[Edward Campbell]

The best transit systems in the world, in my (limited, I admit) experience are all private: Hong Kong, which I regard as the best transit anywhere; Tokyo and Singapore. The worst, including London, New York, Paris, Toronto and Ottawa are all public.

My 2 cents about

 

[Good2Golf]

I'm not pretending our LRT is perfect, but there are lots or subways and LRT services in the world that do great work. The reason we aren't there yet is mostly down to the fact we waited until too late to start. We pretended that busses were enough, because they had been for a long time. It's akin to the CAF pretending that not having AD was ok, because we hadn't needed it for a couple of decades. I'm sure our new AD systems will have a lot of expensive failures as we figure it out again as well... Yet I suspect that nobody on this forum will propose we go back to not having AD because it was cheaper.

Canadian cities love to pretend they are small towns, and forget that infrastructure and transit are part of being "grown up" cities.

I agree overall, was just noting the OTrain’s penchant for chucking major components and being less than a stellar system…though perhaps that had more to do with the fact that the project had notable issues with a deliberately biased procurement that saw an award go to the team that was lowest cost because it actually ‘forgot’ to include the automatic control system that was a mandatory requirement…go Team SNC Lavelin…

As you point out, much of the issue comes from North American cities having much of their relatively young life (compared to European cities) grow in the period of the car, and then trying to retrofit traffic infrastructure to a means of transport that just isn’t socially anywhere close to being mainstream, ie. the bicycle. Pretending that Canadians (North Americans) have it in them socially to aspire to using a bicycle throughout all four seasons, notwithstanding the elitist protestations of those cyclists at the top of the commitment and skills pyramid, isn’t realistic.

 

[mariomike]

The best transit systems in the world, in my (limited, I admit) experience are all private: Hong Kong, which I regard as the best transit anywhere; Tokyo and Singapore. The worst, including London, New York, Paris, Toronto and Ottawa are all public.

Great to read about Ottawa transit. Just tap my PRESTO when I visit and enjoy the ride.

Never been to Hong Kong, or used their transit, but have watched many Youtube videos about HK and its transit system. Very impressive. So are the people I have met from there.

Japan is my sentimental favorite of places I have visited.

Here in North America,

Toronto has the third largest transit system in North America

The TTC is the least subsidized system in North America.

Funding Toronto's Transit Needs

Toronto has the third largest transit system in North America, operated and maintained by the Toronto Transit Commission (TTC). The TTC carries the vast majority of all public transit riders in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area (GTHA). All orders of government play a critical role in funding...

www.toronto.ca

 

[Brad Sallows]

Bus services also lose money, the difference is, a train moves a lot of people around very efficiently. Busses move at the whims/fortunes of traffic, or cost a lot extra for their special transit ways to be maintained.

No sale here. I used bus and LRT for a few years. Road networks allow buses to detour, and they do. The handful of complete rail shutdowns I experienced were quite the events. Fortunately, they had buses to run shuttles. If a new bus route is needed, just added buses and operators.

With public transit there is no free ride. We all pay a bit to subsidize transit. We can choose efficient and effective rail transit, or we can pretend that busses are good enough on their own.

Run the numbers for capital costs and operations to produce per-rider costs. Buses almost always win, bigly. Rail is practical for a few high-density routes.

I'd require a good case that a rail line would pay for its construction in 30 years, and all of its operating costs, before I'd build one.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Transit in North America will always be inefficient due to labour costs. Until we have self driving buses. You can only sustain so many unprofitable routes and runs.

 

[lenaitch]

(Making short diversion away from transit for a moment)

Doctor at the head of the panel? Check.

How much primary care do these guys do? Well, in the current environment, folks without docs go to ERs, so there IS that.

Docs? Covered.

Hmmm, never thought of them in the equation, but it's not impossible they could do more re: primary care. They often run clinics for various vulnerable populations - could that be broadened?

I was just poking a bit at the fact that it seems to be doctors who tend to take the lead in figuring out how to make the system work better.

I age myself a bit, but ...
View attachment 88593
Meanwhile, in related news ....

Supply shortage for Ontario home care, palliative patients 'unacceptable': minister

TORONTO - Ontario is wrestling with delays and shortages of supplies needed for home and palliative care, with dying people unable to get sedatives and patients going to hospital because

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

I wasn't making the point so much as who-does-what but, rather, recognizing that there is a ton of expertise amongst the players who are up to their armpits in the problem every day. For that matter, nobody ever seems to ask the nurses.

I understand Dr. Philpott just wrote a book on the topic (haven't read it). Maybe she should be on a panel/committee/taskforce of 'industry' players - maybe even head it, but bringing her in as a solo white knight advisor is little different that a consultant, and I've never seen a consultant come out a tell the folks paying the bill that what they are doing is wrong. I see a new report sitting on a waiting space on a shelf.

Everybody involved in the game will have an agenda of some kind. I think one of the biggest obstacles in bringing new foreign trained doctors on board is the CPSO protecting their turf and their alma maters, but if you involve them in a broad analysis of the problem, there is a better chance of buy-in.

 

[Halifax Tar]

On the other hand, suburban commuters in Ottawa have stripped front lawns and other space from downtown to accommodate their unwillingness to use transit (Bronson is a sad example of that). The destruction of downtown neighbourhoods to accomodate people who don't live there is a huge problem.

Can you expand on this for a guy who has no idea. How did drivers do this ?

 

[The Bread Guy]

Interesting double-whammy here ....

Ontario plans to bar international students from medical schools starting in 2026

Ontario will not allow international students in medical schools beginning in the fall of 2026, and will also cover tuition for more than 1,000 students who commit to becoming a

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

I've seen "we'll cover your tuition if you agree to hang around" schemes fail in the past because, well, there weren't enough teeth in whatever agreements were signed with whoever was covering the tuition to keep docs from GTFO'ing anyway. We'll see what happens with the legislation that ends up being grunted out.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Ah, the dreaded "oh, yeah, one more thing" regulations ....

'We feel hoodwinked': Ontario grocers wary of new recycling rules with alcohol sales

TORONTO - Ontario grocery stores — particularly smaller, independent shops — say new bottle return requirements that were sprung on them a week before they're set to take effect may

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

See what happens when things get hurried along?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

What kind of store owner would pile empties next to fresh produce? Sounds like a solution, looking for a problem. As for turning back their license? Go ahead. I doubt anyone will notice and just drive a block further to the next store. When we had home delivery of beer, the Beer Store took the empties when they brought your order. And they still do when supplying retail outlets. So I'm not sure where they think they have a problem.

 

[The Bread Guy]

What kind of store owner would pile empties next to fresh produce? Sounds like a solution, looking for a problem. As for turning back their license? Go ahead. I doubt anyone will notice and just drive a block further to the next store. When we had home delivery of beer, the Beer Store took the empties when they brought your order. And they still do when supplying retail outlets. So I'm not sure where they think they have a problem.

I'm going to guess most corner stores don't have much storage space for empties - not to mention it doesn't look like someone's going to go to the outlets to pick up empties.

Yeah, it's up to the vendors to know the details (no such thing as free lunch from any government), but as you know with other levels of government, the devil's in the (regulatory) details.

But hey, Team Blue's the party of small business, right?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

All it means to me is walking 75 yards or driving 4 blocks.

Or calling the Beer Guys and having it delivered.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Alberta in the '80's had Bottle Depots where you could drop off all your bottles/cans, whether beer/wine/spirits of pop and they would pay you for the returns. Not sure if they still exist, but may be something the Ford govt should look at?

 

[Brad Sallows]

Ah, the dreaded "oh, yeah, one more thing" regulations ....

'We feel hoodwinked': Ontario grocers wary of new recycling rules with alcohol sales

TORONTO - Ontario grocery stores — particularly smaller, independent shops — say new bottle return requirements that were sprung on them a week before they're set to take effect may

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

View attachment 88675
See what happens when things get hurried along?

It'll be interesting to see whether "or else I'll hand back my licence" amounts to "or else I'll move to Canada". Liquor licences in BC have approximately the status of a licence to print money and are highly sought; I'd be surprised if it's much different in any other province.

 

[dapaterson]

Odd that Quebec has deposits on most cans and bottles, and requires retailers with 375 sq m or more of floor space to take them back... perhaps Ontario has something to learn?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

In Michigan they have machines outside the stores. You put in your cans and get your deposit back. Let me tell you what a pain in the ass that was after a Sqn smoker.

 

[dapaterson]

In Michigan they have machines outside the stores. You put in your cans and get your deposit back. Let me tell you what a pain in the ass that was after a Sqn smoker.

Quebec also has machines... none of this is rocket science.

 

[RangerRay]

Meanwhile, Manitoba is in the Stone Age. You can only return beer bottles and cans for deposit at beer vendors only. All other cans and bottles go in the recycling bin/garbage can.