Of Helicopters and Hellfires

[Inch]

I've never had it happen at 5000 ft and I hope I don't find out. 

Honestly, you got me there. The Sea King has 5 blades but I don't know if takes more torque to get the thing turning or not. To the operator, all we see is the torque gauge and it's a percentage of torque that we fly off. I don't have the first idea how many ft-lbs of torque we pull.

 

[Kirkhill]

I hope not too. Continued good luck.

As to the other, silly question, just letting my curiosity getting the better of me.

Cheers and thanks.

 

[Mortar guy]

1 Wing (the Tac Hel guys in the Air Force) did a study a while back about upgrading the Griffon to the UH-1Y standard (or CH-146Y as they called it). IIRC the plan involved replacing the gearbox and main rotor shaft with the sturdier ones from the UH-1Y and replacing the metal tail boom with a composite one that would reduce weight. The presentation that I saw mentioned that the good people at Bell Helicopters in Mirabel said this could be easily accomplished as the UH-1Y and CH-146 were so similar. I'm sorry I can't back this statement up with a link but we can't link to the DIN here.

MG

 

[Inch]

I think you're right MG, I recall discussion on that very subject while I was on OJT at 1 Wing HQ prior to going to Moose Jaw. It seems very feasible, it's just a matter of getting the funding for it.

 

[Kirkhill]

MG and Inch, if so that doesn't sound like a very pricey solution - not billions anyway considering the whole buy was just about 1 billion  for 100 AC IIRC.

That would go a long way to solving SOME of the TAC lift issues wouldn't it?  Not to mention deployability.

???

 

[Inch]

I agree Kirkhill, it won't be too bad. The only hang up would be that the Griffon is still only about 10 years old ( I think we got them in 95-96) so I think we may have a hard time selling the upgrade.

It should solve some of the issues, keep in mind that it's still not going to lift as much as a Blackhawk will, but I don't think the crunchies will have much trouble settling for lifting a combat loaded section.

 

[Wizard of OZ]

Plus it might turn the Griffon into an aggressive platform not something the government wants to project.

they wanted them painted pink but green was cheaper whheeee we lucked out there. ;D

 

[Kirkhill]

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?session=dae.4308111.1089903978.QPadasOa9dUAAESlMZk&modele=jdc_34

Pink, green or UN white, here's an update on how Bell and the Marines are making out with the UH-1Y/AH-1Z upgrades.  If only I didn't have to wake up in the morning then I could enjoy the fantasy of us upgrading the CH-146s and maybe buying a couple of dozen AH-1Zs as well,  commonality donchano....

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?session=dae.4308111.1089903978.QPadasOa9dUAAESlMZk&modele=jdc_34

And here's a story on the "upgrading" of the US Army's fleet of  Chinooks to the CH-47F/G standards.  11.4 BUSD between now and 2018 to upgrade them and keep them flying well beyond that date.
The tale sounds kind of like "My Grandfather's Axe" though - My Grandfather bought and Axe, my Father replaced the handle, I replaced the head, but it is still my Grandfather's Axe.  When you replace rotors, engines, drivetrains, avionics and fuselages what is left from the original aircraft?

I wonder how much it would cost to buy some of these "Upgraded" CH-47s and AH-1Zs.

 

[ArmyRick]

Griffons, arggghhhhhh...
I don't have the same technical knowledge most of you guys do but I have flown on them numerous times..
I have also flown on Chinooks, twin hueys, USMC Sea Knights, Czech Hips and Dutch cougars...
The griffon is such a little kid compare to the others..

Put your helmets on, I have a war story...
John Manley (He was like minister of foreign affairs or something at the time) came to visit us in Bosnia on Roto 8 and he would not fly on a CF Griffon. He managed to get the dutch to   fly him into our camp at Tomislavgrad.
I was kind of torqued and wished that the Canadian public knew this. What the CF helicopters weren't good enough for him?
Oh well.

I know for sure the this story is true by the way because I was with RCR Para and we provided LZ security for him.

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

War Story that  made the news  , last visit from the Pesident of the United States to see the Prime Minister Jean .
There is a protocol things that  says host nation leaves last.  Marine One had to leave 45 minutes  earlier then required so that  Canadian Helicopter carrying the PMO and staff would be able to arrive a head the US Prez.  The US Prez went on a planned sight seeing touring over Ottawa in to Quebec , I forget where the meeting was being held at in Quebec but our helicopter needed a head start to get there before the rest and it had to be the last one in the air.
We do need a faster , more powerful taxi  system here

 

[Black Watch]

BHere's a good one: when a Griffon flies overhead, there will be clear sky for at least 10 days.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Black Watch,

Quit littering the board with your inane comments. No one thinks they're funny, the one above doesn't even make sense.

 

[Kirkhill]

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2005/sep/SB-Navy_Wants.htm

Joint Common Missile not yet dead?  I know Lockheed Martin has been pursuing the programme on its own nickel.

Maybe congress will come to the rescue.  Or maybe the pentagon will decide their are no available options.

 

[baboon6]

I've seen pictures of USMC UH-1Ns and Ys fitted with Miniguns and rocket pods. Has this kind of armament ever been fitted to a Griffon? Do armament kits exist? (Besides door guns)

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I've seen pictures of USMC UH-1Ns and Ys fitted with Miniguns and rocket pods. Has this kind of armament ever been fitted to a Griffon? Do armament kits exist? (Besides door guns)

There are a few links on here with pics provided that answer your question

 

[Black Watch]

But with all the thigns i read on this topick, why don't we replace Griffons by blackhawks?

 

[BITTER PPLCI CPL]

There is a common misconception that Blackhawk's are magical low-maintanence birds. While they are awsome to fly in and are one of the workhorse's of the U. S. army (the other being the Chinook) they require a lot of maintanence time after so much of hours of flight time. Plus it's not built in Quebec so we'll never see it!

 

[Kirkhill]

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?session=dae.4308111.1089903978.QPadasOa9dUAAESlMZk&modele=jdc_34

US ordering Thermobaric Warheads for Hellfire.  That would give the Hellfire Thermobaric, Bunker-Buster and Anti-Tank warheads that could be integrated with Longbow, Brimstone, Joint Common Missile and Netfires Loitering Attack Missiles and Netfires Precision Attack Missiles,  all of which are derivatives of the same family with ranges from 5 km to >70km.