More $$ for RMC students...?

[Drummie]

Well, the latest and biggest hype going around the college today goes as follows:

Supposedly, if one was in the Res. F before becoming an OCdt and transfering to Reg. F to come to RMC, one is now entitled to the balance of money one would have made if still a reservist.
It supposedly all started with a 1st year who found this amazing clause. He was apparently in the reserves for 4 days before transfering to Reg F, and now here at RMC, he's supposed to (if not already gotten) get a cheque of approx $20, 000 or close to it. The avg. amt's I heard ppl getting is around the $30, 000 range, but and 4th year who lives downstairs from me was a MCpl in Res, and now he;s in 4th year, so with the retroactivity, he's calcuated to rcv. approx. $100,000, while a 3rd year near him is rcving around $85, 000.
While I don't blame anyone for happily accpeting the money ,b.c who wouldn't,  some of us find it a little odd.
The theory is as a member of the CF, your pay should never be decreased (unless demoted), so transfering between components should not decrease pay.
What's hard to wrap my head around is, if one is not doing PTE work anymore, and is doing OCdt work (which at RMC, is jsut school work), then why deserve PTE pay, etc for other ranks and cimcumstances.
When we signed our contracts, I though anyone who signed agreed that, yes, they will be an officer cadet, accepting the crap that comes with it, for 4 years, including pay...?
While it's true the UTPNCM's remain at their pay grade from their NCM rank, the differince is in their title itself...they're UTPNCMs, not ROTP officers, meaning they have families, lines of credit, etc, etc to pay.
Obviously, ppl here are estatic over this... I mean, who wouldn;t be. After the first person got his approval, and told his buds, it spread around like wildfire, and now every former reservist here is cashing in.
My biggest question is, where is all this money gonig to come from? All we ever hear is how there's not enough money for this and that.
Guess I shouldn;t have wasted all my time in cadets, or I'd be $30,000 richer right now, jsut like that :-\

 

[casing]

Your post is extremely painful to trudge through.  You are an RMC cadet, you say... Aren't decent writing skills a prereq for admission into RMC?

Anyway!  I'm failing to understand how a former Reservist is entitled to so much back pay.  Were they on class B or C contracts?  Even so, how would that warrant entitlement to what equates to RegF back pay? 

So far this is all hear say.  Do you have any substantiating evidence to back this up?  CFAO numbers indicating the "loop holes", or anything else?

 

[lawandorder]

as a PTE reservists only going to parade nights, weekend training, and 2 months class B in the summer, I can see making about $11 000 a year.  But that 2 months class B.  How are some people cashing cheques for $85 000.

Doesn't make much sense to me.

And just to let you know, there are plenty of PTE who do school work as well, its not just an Officer thing.

 

[Rad]

Well right now i'm a reservist with about almost 10 months credited time, and I have applied for RMC.  Are you saying if i get accepted that i can possibly get a check for $20,000??  Because I don't understand how that would work ???.

 

[Inch]

I'm calling BS. Kincanucks can confirm this, but I'm pretty sure you don't component transfer into ROTP, which means you actually release from the CF even if only for a day. In that case, all pay and anything else you were entitled to would cease and you'd start all over again as an ROTP Ocdt.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/cbi/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=6&Section=204.03&sidecat=21&Chapter=204#204.03

CBI Reference, pay particular attention to para 2. "Pay Protection not applicable" sub para (b), this is you guys. Now, to clarify this, if a pilot is remustered for some reason, para 2 applies to them as well in that they lose their pilot pay and revert back to GSO pay scales at the same IPC. IE Pilot IPC 5 would go to GSO IPC 5. You don't keep your pilot pay because you're not a pilot anymore.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/cbi/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=6&sidecat=21&Section=204.211&Chapter=204#204.211

Have a read of para 10, you'll notice that para 3 (the ROTP para) is not included in its criteria.

Now, disclaimer here, I'm no RMS clerk but I can read CBIs as well as anyone else can and it's pretty clear to me that you're all SOL. Sorry but thems the breaks for getting a free education.

 

[Rad]

Can't really say that I'm dissapointed haha.  Would have been something else though.

 

[Wookilar]

I've directed a few of the RO's to check everything with the pay office. I personally know two that have recieved substantial checks. I read the CBI's also and they do seem pretty clear. I just told them to NOT SPEND THE MONEY until they had confirmed everytyhing with the pay office (atleast twice). Nobody seems to know where these checks are coming from, so I would just advise any former Reservists to double check with their orderly rooms on this one.
Not that our pay system ever makes mistakes or anything  (I recieved Maj's pay for three months when I went from Pte2 to Cpl after the pay freeze was lifted. Then had to give it all back  :'()

 

[kincanucks]

Actually the CT policy has changed and yes you can now CT into ROTP and yes your pay will be protected now.  However, I didn't hear anything about it being grandfathered.  Wait and shoot.

 

[Rad]

How, if you don't mind my asking, would I go about doing a CT from PRes to ROTP?  I have all my applications done as well as my interview for ROTP but it would be the same as if i started right out of high school.  Any help you be greatly appreciated.

 

[kincanucks]

How, if you don't mind my asking, would I go about doing a CT from PRes to ROTP?  I have all my applications done as well as my interview for ROTP but it would be the same as if i started right out of high school.  Any help you be greatly appreciated.

You have already been interviewed for ROTP this year while you were in the Reserves?  If yes then you are now doing a CT.

HH

 

[Rad]

Well, i didn't do it through the reserves.  I joined the reserves through one recruiting centre and did my ROTP through another.  The people who did my ROTP thing know i'm a reservist but i'm not 100% sure if my Reserve unit knows i'm applying for ROTP.

 

[kincanucks]

Well, i didn't do it through the reserves.  I joined the reserves through one recruiting centre and did my ROTP through another.  The people who did my ROTP thing know i'm a reservist but i'm not 100% sure if my Reserve unit knows i'm applying for ROTP.

Hmmm, well in order for the CFRC/D to process you for ROTP while you are in the reserves they would have to contact your home unit for information so I am sure they know.

 

[Rad]

That makes sense, they did tell me they had to contact the other recruiting centre, but didn't tell me anything about contacting my unit.

 

[Drummie]

Your post is extremely painful to trudge through.  You are an RMC cadet, you say... Aren't decent writing skills a prereq for admission into RMC?
So far this is all hear say.  Do you have any substantiating evidence to back this up? 

Writing skills, you bet they are! Fortanatley for me, since this is not being 'graded', and it's around 12"00 midnight, after completeing my duty shift, and a longer then usual day of school,  I'm not too worried about proof reading..it's readable. My apologies that you had to trudge. I shall aspire to make my posts less trudge-ereous in future.

as a PTE reservists only going to parade nights, weekend training, and 2 months class B in the summer, I can see making about $11 000 a year.  But that 2 months class B.  How are some people cashing cheques for $85 000.

And just to let you know, there are plenty of PTE who do school work as well, its not just an Officer thing.

Pte's? School work? No way!... get out!
Perhaps my post wasn't clear, though after just reading it, it still seems clear to me. The point was ROTP cadets just do school work for the most part, and IMO, aren;t really needing, and in many cases, not deserving of the same kind of dough a young NCM rcv's for actually doing a job. It really had nothing to do with who should be educated and who shouldn't.
Given, some of us do train mighty hard on Sandhurst, CISM teams, Varsity, Academic competitions, etc.
How one can make $85,000 is by being in the Res. F for something > 1 yr, and holding a rank higher then Pte, Able Seaman (or w/e it is?), and then going to Prep yr. for RMC. Therefore, one gets retroactive pay from the time they signed on as an OCdt.

I'm calling BS.

Believe you me, I called that way before you did..and repeated it over and over while I cried myself to sleep last night. The fact of the matter is I wouldnt have wasted precious sleep time posting the post if the entire school wasn;t talking about it, and I though it had no significance.
It hasnt digressed either. Today, in every class I had, ppl were talking about it...how they wished they'd not stayed in cadets and joined reserves etc. Tempers started fuming from ppl who aren't getting anything when ppl who were started flaunting it around the classroom, and everyone wants to hurt the guys that served 3 or 4 days in Res, and is getting this extra pay now.
I talked to a friend at lunch who went to see our pay office, and sure enough, they told him he'd be getting around $12,000. He served 1.5 years in naval res.
As for proof, perhaps if I find a copy of someone's check, I'll scan it to you...

 

[kincanucks]

So people are getting some extra cash for being a reservist before going to RMC.  Big freaking deal, move on.  People chose different paths and some get rewarded and some don't.  Cadets running around and waving it in other people's faces is not on but that is an issue for the RMC leadership.

 

[Rad]

Can't we all just get along?  After all we are part of the same family :.  hahaha

 

[h3tacco]

I don't quite get the logic. But since I was in the reserves before I went into ROTP can I get my check please!  ;D

 

[FredDaHead]

So people are getting some extra cash for being a reservist before going to RMC.  Big freaking deal, move on.

The problem is, those people essentially "demoted" themselves to a lower pay grade, willingly, but now they're reaping HUGE benefits. Sure, the guy who did 3-4 years in the Res and went up to Cpl or MCpl could be said to deserve it, but the guy who did 4 DAYS in the Reserves and who's now getting a few grands... How is THAT logical? In four days he probably didn't get his uniform issued to him, much less do anything productive for the CF.

I think that's the problem. I have a few guys in my class who've done a few years in the Res, and I'm cool with them getting money--well, it ticks me off, but MUCH less than guys who did a weekend and now get triple my pay and incredible benefits because of that.

This is definately an issue, and I think telling people it's not and that they should just "move on" will help foster hostility in a way that dealing with the problem, or even just explaining the rationale, would not. Right now, the "have nots" are mad at the "haves" because there's no reason (that's been told to us) that they should get shitloads of money and double/triple (or more) our pay for doing the exact same job. If we just tell the "have nots" to STFU, they're just gonna get angrier and the morale will go ever lower.

Personally, although it bugs me a lot, I don't hate the people for getting shitloads of money. I hate the fact they brag about it every chance they get, but that's beside the point. I'm mad at the CF for doing a totally unfair program (not in principle, but in application) like this and not telling us how it's done or why it's done that way.

But I've already gone way beyond what the QR&O's allow me to say, so I'll stop before an MP comes to take me away.

 

[kincanucks]

but the guy who did 4 DAYS in the Reserves and who's now getting a few thousand grands..

Repetitive BS and wouldn't that be a million dollars?  Love this new generation where you need everything explained to you.

 

[FredDaHead]

but the guy who did 4 DAYS in the Reserves and who's now getting a few thousand grands..

Repetitive BS and wouldn't that be a million dollars?  Love this new generation where you need everything explained to you.

We don't need everything explained to us, just stupid shit like that, that makes absolutely zero sense.

Thanks for pointing out the mistake in that sentence, I shall edit it.