MND O'Connor Says "No New Missions for now"

[17thRecceSgt]

http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060508/oconnor_military_missions_060508

No new overseas missions for now: O'Connor
CTV.ca News

Canada's military can't take on any new overseas missions while it's trying to expand, says Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor.

"As long as we are expanding the armed forces, we will not be able to maintain two sort of heavy lines of commitment from the army,'' he said Monday while testifying before a Senate defence committee hearing in Ottawa.

Sen. Romeo Dallaire and NDP Leader Jack Layton have called for a Canadian presence in Darfur, the violence-racked area in southern Sudan. The Sudanese government has signed a peace deal with the major rebel group there and has indicated it would be open to UN peacekeepers getting involved.

O'Connor said the current mission in Afghanistan, which involves 2,200 forces personnel, is the limit, although Layton suggested shifting resources from Afghanistan.

The minister said, "We can maintain Afghanistan as it is into the future basically forever, but we would be greatly challenged for a substantial commitment elsewhere."

The main challenge right now is to refill the ranks of the army, navy and air force, he said.

At the start of the 1990s, there were 75,000 forces personnel. Currently, there are about 62,000, but O'Connor said only about 52,000 are termed "effectives."

The rest are recruits in training, people on courses or those on medical and other forms of leave.

The Tories plan to add 13,000 full-time recruits to the military.

Equipment

The forces will go on a shopping spree of aircraft, ships and trucks once cabinet gives the go-ahead, O'Connor said.

Streamlining the ponderous procurement system will be a priority, O'Connor said. The minister said he wants to buy proven, off-the-shelf equipment.

"We're not going to buy paper trucks or paper airplanes,'' he said.

O'Connor rejected the notion equipment had to be "Canadianized" unless there was a compelling reason.

The retired general said he remembered when helmets had to be tweaked to be Canadian, "as if there was a 'Canadian' head."


Paper trucks?  I didn't know the LSVW was made of paper!
Is this the Fed Gov drawing a line in the sand specifically because JL and the rest of the NDP cult are echoing Senator Dallaire and calling for tp's in Darfur??

MRM

 

[geo]

well.... I for one congratulate the MDN for his perceptive abilities.
Having the choice between doing two things - half assed or one thing done right, let's get some country that doesn't have much UN committment get involved in Sudan....
China? N Korea?

 

[17thRecceSgt]

I thought it was sort of "the MND says we are stretched thin, and need to re-generate..don't ask us to go to Africia right now we are busy trying to hire/train those 13,000 Reg Frce people we annouced last week and OH...we are going to buy some new kit soon, and it might not be sourced in Canada so suck it up"...

I wonder if the PR folks are Bombardier have read that one yet  

or Western Star

or...

 

[Hunter]

Paper trucks?  I didn't know the LSVW was made of paper!
Is this the Fed Gov drawing a line in the sand specifically because JL and the rest of the NDP cult are echoing Senator Dallaire and calling for tp's in Darfur??

Minister O'Connor has been talking about equipment mentioned in the article since before the last Federal Election.  I don't think the Conservatives give a flying foxfart about what what comes out of Layton's mouth.  As far as the equipment goes, you are correct - the LSVW is not made of paper, but given their reliability some of them may as well be.  And it was the  Progressive-Conservative Party; they are not the same political party as the one that purchased the LSVW.

 

[Armymedic]

well.... I for one congratulate the MDN for his perceptive abilities.
Having the choice between doing two things - half assed or one thing done right, let's get some country that doesn't have much UN committment get involved in Sudan....

+1 and,
ref Sudan +1. I personally don't want to go to that little shithole of insanity. If you thought Afghanistan was a foriegn climate.... :evil:

 

[paracowboy]

I personally don't want to go to that little ******* of insanity.

I do, but not with what we got right now. I would dearly love to visit some righteous indignation upon the janjaweed and their puppet-masters in Khartoum.

But we can't do it yet.

And MND got it right, as far as I am conerned.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I do, but not with what we got right now. I would dearly love to visit some righteous indignation upon the janjaweed and their puppet-masters in Khartoum.

But we can't do it yet.

And MND got it right, as far as I am conerned.

Bingo!

Darfur needs doing; but not by us and, right now, maybe not even by any Western nation.

Darfur is a crime against humanity and the bad guys need sorting out - into graves.  One of the problems is that they are on the list and it's a long list and they aren't at the top of the list, yet.  Resources, even America's resources, only stretch so far.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Oh no, its that other person's younger sister Paracowboy?

Jack Layton is "suggesting" we move some of the assets in Afgha to Darfur.  Is he really that clueless or is it purely for political points?

This is one link I was using to get background info on Darfur.

http://www.darfurgenocide.org/

I am sure there are better ones but it was a start.

I support the MND and what others have said here.  It seems time to suck back, reload, and not take on any more at this time.  If the CDS and PM also toe the same line...maybe folks will listen?

Wait, what did I just say?  Slap.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

:rofl:

The MND said a priority will be improving the procurement process (or words to that effect).  Is this even possible??

As I type that I remember a story one of the last Base Commanders of CFB Summerside told me when I was driving him to a mess dinner ( a while ago...CFB Summerside????) about when he was in RMC in the 60's...they had asked about getting toques and told "R & D is being done on some this year".   R & D.  In Canada. On toques.

Sorta suggests that our procurement procedures are and have been so tied up with red tape and "policy" to not upset anyone that the ones who suffer are and have been the end users.  Aka the troops.  Thats too bad.  I think the troops should come before Company A and Company B's right to bid on toques.

Time will tell?

Mud

 

[geo]

Hmmm.....
The MDN did not win too many points yesterday talking to the Senate avout the money he's gotten and the new recruits he's saying he'll recruit and train.

He's gone on record as saying that he's not an accountant (a good thing) but that by using what accountants use (creative bookkeeping?) (not a good thing) he'll be able to meet objective.

(meeting - will post quote later).

 

[geo]

Mike Blanchfield, Canwest news service ; 

Lib Senator Day pressed the MDN on how the military could even begin it’s ambitious recruiting plan with as little as 200MM$ in actual new money this year.  “We’ll actually spend more money on people this year, above what the original plan was and, uh, the magic of accountants, somehow they can shuffle those dollars around” the MDN replied>>”I don’t get into that sort of stuff, but they can shuffle dollars around and there will be extra money to buy more people this year”.

A sceptical Day replied “the magic of the accountants, unfortunately, has resulted in the past in the armed forces not having the money to do the job we’ve been asking them to do – and that’s what our concern is. And that’s why we’re putting these questions to you”

Now, this is what was said in the printed press...... is it out of context? - don't know but I would not have started to talk about creative bookkeeping or accounting magic...
(we here all know what he means by it BUT, does the public?)

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

the magic of accountants

:rofl:

Why am I not surprised...  :

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Mike Blanchfield, Canwest news service ; 

Lib Senator Day pressed the MDN on how the military could even begin it’s ambitious recruiting plan with as little as 200MM$ in actual new money this year.  “We’ll actually spend more money on people this year, above what the original plan was and, uh, the magic of accountants, somehow they can shuffle those dollars around” the MDN replied>>”I don’t get into that sort of stuff, but they can shuffle dollars around and there will be extra money to buy more people this year”.

A sceptical Day replied “the magic of the accountants, unfortunately, has resulted in the past in the armed forces not having the money to do the job we’ve been asking them to do – and that’s what our concern is. And that’s why we’re putting these questions to you”

That's funny, I thought it was the policies of Mr. Day's party that led to that end state.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Very true, but the Senate Defence Committee has always been supportive of the CF and of giving the CF new resources - no matter what the political stripe of its members...

 

[geo]

Michael....
The policies of the Progressive Conservatives and the "green" Brian Mulroney also contributed to the current boondoggle.

That having been said, the Senator is entitled to ask the MDN how he intended to reach his goal... but talking about Magic and accounting wizzardry isn't the right course to follow.............. IMHO

 

[Kirkhill]

geo:

You're right on the accounting bit.... :

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Agreed.  Although it might be CDF in the military what that means, John and Susy Taxpayer might not get it...the whole idea of "transferable budgets" or whatever the magic accountants call them...

I hope the MND has some more solid answers in the future, if only to keep the other (IMO) truly crappy parties have having any more leeway than they can scrape up against the MND and our current PM...

"not good enough, get down and do it again" is what I think about his Harry Potter Accounting answers.

Public impression is important now I think?  Hate to have their job...straighten out the mess the GDman Liberals made of everything a federal government could possibly f**k up...and then have the Liberals sitting there criticizing you on cleaning up their mess.  I would have punched the $%^@#@ out of someone by now...

I am holding on what he said though...no new missions, more troops, new kit.  THATs the stuff he said I care about...I would think it would be funny if he came back on TV and introduced the CF accountants and they were all in like big pointy hats and about 12 years old though...

:rofl:

 

[McG]

Contradictory signals on Canadian military role in Darfur
Mike Blanchfield
CanWest News Service; Ottawa Citizen
Wednesday, May 10, 2006

OTTAWA - The Canadian Forces told the Liberal government last year that they could provide troops to an international protection force for Darfur, apparently contradicting Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor's assertions that the military is too stretched to help in the war-torn Sudanese region.

This is because in order to achieve the growth directed by the government, the soldiers that could have gone to Sudan will now be required to run courses & training.  So, what was said last fall & what is being said now are both true (though contradictory).

 

[MarkOttawa]

The media's agenda marches on: a piece by Jim Travers in the Toronto Star in which he claims that former PM Martin got a promise in March 2005 from Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Hillier that there would be troops for both Afstan and Darfur. The title says it all: "Peacekeeping pledge broken".
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1147297813034&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home

Mark
Ottawa

 

[McG]

Peacekeeping pledge broken
Military said they'd be ready for Darfur
A year later, DND commitment has faded
May 11, 2006. 05:33 AM
JAMES TRAVERS
NATIONAL AFFAIRS COLUMNIST
TORONTO STAR

The title if definately missleading, but the facts are there if you look into the article.  The CF told the Liberal government that it could do Afghanistan & Sudan.  Then we got a Conservative government which said directed the CF to grow by a lot (and to do it fast).  The CF has not broken any promisses.  The government has changed prioreties and the CF will now do Afghanistan & massive growth.