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Military families against Afghan mission speak out

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Military families against Afghan mission speak out
Allan Woods, CanWest News Service
Published: Monday, October 23, 2006

OTTAWA - Families of some Canadian soldiers say the escalating body count in Afghanistan, and lack of success the international community has had bringing security to the Afghan people, has convinced them the Harper government should pull Canadian troops out of the war-torn country.

This is believed to be the first time Canadian military families of those serving in Kandahar, or set to be deployed there, have publicly expressed their anti-war sentiments.

In exclusive interviews with CanWest News Service, parents and siblings say they are concerned about the dangerous fighting with the Taliban. They are also unsettled by the war-focused nature of the mission, and see no end goal that will define when, and under what conditions, Canadian troops will come home for good.

''I am completely opposed to my son being used as ground fodder for an undisclosed reason,'' says Chris Craig, from Victoria. ''I want to know why we're there. The arguments that have been thus far presented don't do it for me. They do not explain why my son and his friends should be maimed or killed in a far-away country.''

Craig's 28-year-old son, a corporal who has served in Kabul and is set to go to Afghanistan again in February, has attended the funerals of four fellow Canadian soldiers. He has been a pallbearer at two of them.

Similarly, the fighting in Afghanistan hit too close to home for the 22-year-old sister of a young soldier from Burlington, Ont., when his close friend, Pte. Josh Klukie, 23, stepped on a booby trap and was killed Sept. 29 in Kandahar's Panjwaii district.
''My eyes have been opened,'' says the young woman, who asked that she not be identified for fear it could cause problems for her brother. ''When my brother joined the military, he was a peacekeeper. Now he's killing off Taliban in Afghanistan and it's just opened my eyes and I don't agree with it.''

The families have come forward at a time when the mission is causing deep divisions in Canada.

A poll conducted by Ipsos Reid in late September found public backing for the war had rebounded after it fell during the summer months, with 57 per cent of Canadians in support of the use of combat troops in Afghanistan.

The survey suggested public support has an expiry date, with 51 per cent of respondents saying Canada should withdraw its troops when the current military commitment ends in 2009, regardless of the level of success achieved.

In recent months, the families of dead Canadian soldiers have tended to express support for the war.

Indeed, the most vocal segment of the Canadian population which includes much of the military community, as well as Prime Minister Stephen Harper have insisted Canada should not abandon its efforts in the country.

The other side, which includes the military families who have now come forward to express concern, has come to the conclusion that Canada's presence in Afghanistan and particularly in the more dangerous Kandahar province is misguided, is causing more problems than it resolves, and must come to an end.

Craig, 60, says there is an inner conflict that military families who feel the way she does are struggling to deal with: how to support the soldier and oppose the war.

''The guys my son knows feel totally empowered by their families. They also know their families want them out of there, so this is a really unusual thing happening in Canada. Families are speaking out against this and they're saying 'I love my son or daughter, I hope they're safe and I want it over,''' she says. ''How can you not be at odds?''

Paul Short, the father of a 25-year-old army medic who will be sent to Afghanistan next February, said he erected a flagpole on the lawn of his home in Bay Roberts, N.L., this summer and put up the Canadian flag.

''I'm looking out at this flag poll, this beautiful, proud flag poll with the Canadian flag on it flying half staff and I'm constantly reminded of the young people who are dying over there, and in my opinion, needlessly,'' he says.

''With regards to my son going in February, I'd trade places with him in a minute. I'd go over without any training just to take his place.''

He says he told his son several weeks ago, ''If you do not want to go, then don't go refuse to go and your parents will back you 100 per cent.''

''He didn't answer me,'' Short says.

The dissenting military families came to light after a call last summer by New Democratic Party Leader Jack Layton to pull Canadian troops out of the counter-insurgency mission in southern Afghanistan a position for which Layton has been pilloried on Parliament Hill.

''I have never voted for the NDP in my life. It's just that the Liberals made a mess of this a while back, then Stephen Harper picked up on it. I don't know what happened when Stephen Harper took over. It just went to hell in a handbag,'' Short says.

''It's all right for Stephen Harper to say that that's the price you pay when you go to war, but that affects so many lives. Just because that person's life ended it doesn't mean that everybody else is not suffering around them. Stephen Harper don't seem to realize that.''

Layton says military families have important concerns that have not been heard in the debate over Canada's role in Afghanistan. He says it is a ''nuanced'' position that needs to be heard.

''I think there is something particularly poignant about the opinions of these families, which isn't to diminish the view of military families who are taking a different perspective on it,'' he says. ''They're like Canadians except they have an even deeper connection that is as intimate as it gets.''

Military experts have echoed criticism of the mission, but they are quick to say it is a ''simplistic'' idea to pull Canadian troops from Afghanistan and risk creating a power vacuum that will be filled by Taliban militants.

However, right now Canadian troops spend about 90 per cent of their time engaged in combat and just 10 per cent on reconstruction and humanitarian efforts, while a winning formula should be the opposite, according to Walter Dorn, a professor of peacekeeping at the Royal Military College. Dorn teaches majors, generals and combat commanders who have served in Afghanistan.

''It seems to me that for every person that we kill, we create relatives and associates who increase the level of hatred and we're sowing the seeds for future attacks,'' he says in an interview from New York, where he is working with the United Nations. ''If you don't win the hearts and minds of the people, you'll lose.''
 
I found this part interesting.
He says he told his son several weeks ago, ''If you do not want to go, then don't go refuse to go and your parents will back you 100 per cent.''

''He didn't answer me,'' Short says.

 
''When my brother joined the military, he was a peacekeeper. Now he's killing off Taliban in Afghanistan and it's just opened my eyes and I don't agree with it.''

I'm sorry, but please.

 
Parents and siblings afraid for thier own... nothing new here.

I don't know why this makes the news... parents and a sister... my parents and sister never liked me being in - and still thinks my hubby is nuts... when hubby goes away his mom curses the news and government... but she always supports him.

Is it not natural that family would be concerned?!

You can't just support your soldiers when there is peace - they need the support more now then ever, and questioning thier mission is not the way to do it.

I feel like this is a dead horse and we've been flogging it for months now....

 
Nothing like using your son or daughters commitment as a platform for your own idea's.
 
''When my brother joined the military, he was a peacekeeper. Now he's killing off Taliban in Afghanistan and it's just opened my eyes and I don't agree with it.''

Okay, now I'm starting to get really frustrated. Where are people getting this...media? the education system? Well, I maybe not be able change the media, but I can make an impact. I know I'm only one teacher among many thousands, but I can change my little corner of the world. People's attitudes has helped me reflect on my own teaching and how I approach this topic in my Canadian history class.
 
Similarly, the fighting in Afghanistan hit too close to home for the 22-year-old sister of a young soldier from Burlington, Ont., when his close friend, Pte. Josh Klukie, 23, stepped on a booby trap and was killed Sept. 29 in Kandahar's Panjwaii district.
''My eyes have been opened,'' says the young woman, who asked that she not be identified for fear it could cause problems for her brother. ''When my brother joined the military, he was a peacekeeper. Now he's killing off Taliban in Afghanistan and it's just opened my eyes and I don't agree with it.''

I suppose they never thought any of the mine strikes we suffered in Egypt, Sinai, Cyprus, Cambodia, Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo and all those other "Peacekeeping" missions were not as devastating to the members of the CF who suffered them?  Mines don't care who they kill or injure, in war or in peace.  The thing is to stop people like the Taliban from laying more mines, bombs, booby-traps, IEDs, VBIEDs, etc.


 
George Wallace said:
I suppose they never thought any of the mine strikes we suffered in Egypt, Sinai, Cyprus, Cambodia, Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo and all those other "Peacekeeping" missions were not as devastating to the members of the CF who suffered them?  Mines don't care who they kill or injure, in war or in peace.  The thing is to stop people like the Taliban from laying more mines, bombs, booby-traps, IEDs, VBIEDs, etc.

I'd hazard to guess even worse - we weren't really able to do anything about it, just had to stand there and take it as it were.  When I hear people that say their brother is  "a peacekeeper", it really opens my eyes  to just  how deluded people in this country really are.  I mean, dude, he joined the ARMY, not UNICEF.

I'm thinking CRIS is at least as prevalent in the civilian populace as it is in the civil service and the military.

MM
 
I think what you are witnessing is the affects of the electronic world.

People are more cognizant about what going on in Afghanistan, particularly those with vested intererests.

Like their sons or dauighters.  No one even knew what we did in Kosovo, or Cyprus or a dozen other operational areas becasue they had no way of knowing. I'm not being critical, just stating a fact. There were no embedds, or example, or blogs. Someone mentioned something about using sons and daughters to exploit a political point but I do not think it is that simple.

Not when it is there family on the line.

I would suggest that their views should be considered then, deciding on your personal values, politely dismissed or embraced.

Regardless, they must be tolerated.

We owe their sons and daughters that much, yes?
 
However, right now Canadian troops spend about 90 per cent of their time engaged in combat and just 10 per cent on reconstruction and humanitarian efforts, while a winning formula should be the opposite, according to Walter Dorn, a professor of peacekeeping at the Royal Military College. Dorn teaches majors, generals and combat commanders who have served in Afghanistan.

Am I foolish to think that if you have 90% doing reconstruction, and 10% in combat (security) there would be mass carnage?  I would like to think that you need a SECURE area to reconstruct, and you get that through COMBAT (or presence of force).... I may be a SAILOR with my only infantry experience coming from Hollywood and the Sony Playstation, but it doesn't make sense for anyone to send out reconstruction teams into an unsecure zone............  Perhaps I need to spend more time watching NDP approved movies like Hugging Private Ryan.
 
People fail to understand that unless there is stability, the construction efforts are for the most part a waste of money.

This type of reporting is nothing new for the MSM although to be fair there are some amongst them that don't just want to stir up negative feelings against the mission.

People's tunes will change when we are attacked on our own soil, and then people will be crying for us to do more than we have been. As for people joining as Peacekeeping.......Get a grip. A soldier who joins thinking they're only going to hand out candy and give out medicine and blankets, WILL be set straight during their training..........If they like it they stay, if the don't they'll get out. Peacekeeping is something we do, not something we are. You cannot have peace without warriors.

 
I wonder if said "peacekeeping expert" has actually served on a mission or just stayed at the Holiday Inn Express while writing his dissertaion...

MM
 
medicineman said:
I wonder if said "peacekeeping expert" has actually served on a mission or just stayed at the Holiday Inn Express while writing his dissertaion...

MM

HERE HERE MM

Now I don't know about you, but when you folks signed on the dotted line when joining, were you not told about the dangers of the job and how it could include everything up to and including death? I sure as hell understood it at the end of the interview. I understood it before I went for any of the tests. I'm signing up to be a soldier, it's not a prissy job, it takes guts and skill and the acceptance that the next tour, operation, mission, patrol, I go on, I may not come back from. Personally, knowing that is going to make me fight harder to come back from the said tour, etc. alive.

Just my thoughts.
 
Walter Dorn = UN cheerleader

Bio here: http://www.rmc.ca/academic/poli-econ/dorn/index_e.html

I find myself wondering how these families "came forward"?  Did the media seek them out, or did a small group of politically motivated (hence the reference to the NDP and Taliban Jack) decide to play the media card?  My family includes people from a variety of political viewpoints - none of them speak for me, however.
 
Wow, I am absolutely stunned by the family member's comments and total disregard for their child/sibling's sense of duty and answering their calling.  In juxtaposition there are those families that must bear the loss of their loved one and have done so with courage and fortitude even in their grief.

Yet, amongst the unbearable grief these families must endure, the words of Mrs Reid about her son, Christopher, rang out clear and strong.  In the greatest depths of her grief, Mrs  Reid reminded me what it was to be a True Canadian.  I don't stop at just what Mrs Reid had to say but for each and every grieving family,  for they too, remind me what it is to be a True Canadian.   Each family has in their own way spoken to what it is to be Canadian. They have reminded me that we as Canadians, in the essence of their sons or daughter, believe in the very freedoms others take for granted or attempt to deny.  Each family has spoken about their loved one having a strong sense of justice, and wanting to just make the world a better place and a safer place.   They spoke of the rights we as humanity have come to long for and gain and the never ending requirement to defend these rights as well as protect them. These families have epitomized what being a True Canadian is all about.  That even in their sorrow and heartache, they speak no ill of the makers of these troubled times, they fling no insults at the governments but instead speak about  honour, courage and duty.

As a Canadian, along with the global perception that we are all just "friendly folks" or in the case of the military - "just peacekeepers", I want to also be known by the virtues and attributes that these families have extoled in their loved ones... I want to be known as a brave Canadian who will fear not the fearful world situations but work in my own way to solve them.  I want to be known as an honourable Canadian, one who along with my countrymen can be trusted to keep our word and always to do the right thing.  I want to be the courageous Canadian, who will not run in the face of adversity but stay until there is no need for me to remain, the job is done.  I want to be known as a Canadian that will always put my duty to my Country ahead of selfish motives.  That when my Country calls upon me, regardless of the task, I will respond but more so that as  Canadian that has a duty to make the world a safer and better place.  

What these families have reminded me of is that the virtues of Honour, Courage and Duty are not exclusively in the domain of a Canadian Forces member but rather that represent what my Country is as a whole, down to the individual.  We, Canadians are unique in that when we are faced with adversity, or in the sad case of these families and their grief, we speak and demonstrate as Mrs Reid did,  our neverending ability to draw upon our own courage, honour and duty.  

To me, that is what being Canadian is all about.  We've had our identity and spirit all along - we just needed to be reminded of it.   I can only hope that these families that quickly put their own fears ahead of what their child or sibling has chosen to do as the right thing, will realize that the most loving thing they can give their child is their unconditional support.  
 
I suggest those not familiar with Dorn's self-promoting view of the UN [he is regularly on their gravy train as an "expert"], need look no further than several letters from his RMC colleagues, written to the Canadian Military Journal:
Walter Dorn remains convinced that there is no life after or outside of the United Nations.... Given the events of 9/11, even the die-hard Canadian liberal left has moved on to a more reasoned and responsible position regarding Canada’s place in the world. Dorn has not.

....as an academic he must prove his point in reasoned argument, well supported by evidence, and demonstrating maturity and a sense of proportion. Evidently, all three hallmarks of academic responsibility are missing in Dorn’s most recent contribution to our national security debate.
http://www.journal.dnd.ca/engraph/Vol7/no2/02-Letters_e.asp

As for his experience, his bio claims it to be "extensive"
He has extensive experience in field missions. In 1999, he was a district electoral officer with the United Nations Mission in East Timor. He also served with the UN in Ethiopia (UNDP project) and at UN headquarters as a Training Adviser with UN's Department of Peacekeeping Operations. He carried out research in conflict areas in Central and South America, Africa and South East Asia.
http://www.rmc.ca/academic/poli-econ/dorn/index_e.html
Anyone familiar with UN Civilian Staff will read this as, "watched an election and hung around a UNDP headquarters. Did some academic tourism trying to provide scholarly credibility [lambasted by his peers above]."

::)

 
I would go even further to say that they were grossly overpaid and on a "war" vacation/sightseeing tour.

But I'm not overly bitter...much.

MM
 
Even Romeo Dallaire seems to have caught on that mythical UN-style peacekeeping is a non-starter

Dallaire: Peacekeeping doesn’t work these days
EDMONTON (CP) — Canada must follow through with its mission in Afghanistan, Sen. Romeo Dallaire says.

The retired general .... said people must give up on the notion of the Canadian military as a peacekeeping force......The Canadian army hasn’t been in peacekeeping for the last 15 years. Ambiguity and complexity are now the norm.
http://thechronicleherald.ca/Canada/536082.html
 
I always thought peace through superior firepower was an effective tool.

Peacekeeping is just that, the percieved threat of what is to come should the peacekeeper be attacked is one of the greatest deterrents... .

Once the battle is won, brothers, I suggest that peacekeeping will become the norm again and that we had best be damn good at it.

One only has to look at Iraq to see how far and how fast the situation would decline without an adequate peacekeeping force to keep the tribes from slitting each others throats... or outright civil war.

The same thing will happen in Afghanistan.

As it has been happening for centuries, I might add. 
 
To the family and friends of those who fell, and to those who worry about our brothers and sisters in arms "over there", take solace in the words of the man who requested our help in the first place:

If the greatness of life is measured in deeds done for others, then Canada's sons and daughters who have made the ultimate sacrifice in Afghanistan stand among the greatest of their generation,"  Hamid Karzai, President of Afghanistan

That is how they would wish to be remembered

 
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