If you haven't been to Afghanistan shut up.

[fraserdw]

How about "I fight for the Trans-Afghan Pipeline"  :-*

 

[aesop081]

"I fight because i like it"

It would go over well......

 

[armyvern]

"I fight because i like it"

It would go over well......

+100!! LMAO.

 

[cupper]

Or the more pragmatic:

"I fight so I can put food on the table, pay my mortgage, put my kids through school, and save for my eventual retirement."

Then in small print below:

"Now if the Government would stop taxing my ass, I'd be happy"

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Or the more pragmatic:

"I fight so I can put food on the table, pay my mortgage, put my kids through school, and save for my eventual retirement."

"I fight for 2% pension/year superannuated by 2% a year to cover inflation"??

how about, "I fight when it's convenient, but most of the time I just try to get out of FTX"?

 

[GK .Dundas]

I find it ironic that we push ourselves as defenders of freedom and freedom of speech ... yet then see some with (alleged) 'balls' enough telling other people who, as taxpayers and voting citizens, to STFU about their entitled democratic opinion on it.

The irony in that slays me at a double face palm level.

"We fight for your freedom/freedom of speech ... but don't you dare ******* use it."

How absolutely stoopid is that all things considered.

I agree  this whole pathetic debate is just a trifle silly it also reminds me of an argument that took place in a local legion where my Father was President.
It seems there was this crusty old  WW II vet who took umbrage at someone who dared voice an opinion on some part of the conflict and had the poor enough enough taste to be born post 45" He then made the mistake of turning to my father and expecting some sort of support when dealing  this upstart.
" Bloggins", sighed my Father. We went thru Borden together and you were a an idiot then . And you went went all the way thru France , Belgium ,Holland and Germany and all that made you was a well travelled idiot . 

 

[Redeye]

I don't see a problem with this statement for the military IS commonly referred to as the entitiy that fights for our (democratic) freedom (ref: Vets usually). The problem that I would have from it is the childishness of it. It's saying, in a more mature way, 'Yeah, well my daddy can beat up your daddy'. I do not see (or personally haven't at least) cops' cars say 'my daddy keeps your freedom safe', teachers' cars say 'my daddy educates you on freedom', or anything of that sort. This need for bragging countermands the quiet professionalism we should all have.

I did not join to be thanked by every citizen, get a gold star or blue ribbon for my participation. I proudly do it and never have the urge to chest-thump to my male peers in order to defend and/or justify my employment. If people want a pat-on-the-back for titles like being a soldier, a soldier's spouse, how hard it is to run towards gunfire or even how hard it is to do PT every moning (and get paid for it), then perhaps the military is not a place for them. Perhaps grade school is a better place where you are given gold stars and blue ribbons for everything from showing up to a mandatory event to washing your hands after using the bathroom.

I do not believe in the practice of demanding thanks from people. So you don't support the troops - my employment is to protect the right that gives your the freedom to voice that. So I fought for your freedom - if I didn't, someone else would have been told to it. So my life as an army wife is stressful - it was my choice and will continue to be my choice. Demanding gratitude from people via even the form of bumper stickers is hypocritical of military ethos.

I'll stop there b/c I have a feeling I offended some already. If I did offend you, feel free to stand in front of me....at the Tim Hortens lineup.

Very well said. I feel mostly the same way. In fact, that "thanks" think makes me feel awkward sometimes. It did especially before I deployed, because I was just another Reservist, and reality was I'd never really been called on to do anything particularly significant. True, I stood ready to and put my name forward should the call come, so to speak, but it still made me feel weird. And even now, I sometimes feel like some kind of grifter for all the stuff people send etc. I have had infinitely more satisfaction exchanging emails with someone who sent a package than I have from anything in them, and lest anyone think otherwise, I appreciate greatly that people take the time and make the effort to get donations and send stuff over. An organization got my name from an old friend and sent over a bunch of packages and actually took advice from people before sending a second - they're sending over stuff that we can hand out to kids (pens and notebooks and the like) rather than junk food we don't really need. That's admirable.

What really torques me are people that think that being in the military or a veteran entitles them to a whole bunch of special treatment. The case in point is something I saw that's been going on for a long time - a veteran who was fined by his condo corporation for hanging a flag off his balcony which is a violation of the condo corporation's rules, and something he had been told, repeatedly, to stop doing. To be fair to him, I don't know that this guy was the one who turned it into something big, I suspect it's more civilians who are only too happy to speak for us it seems. It's simple enough in my view. The rules are clear. When he bought the condo, they would have reviewed them with him. His balcony, in most condos, is an exclusive use common area, meaning in layman's terms, he doesn't own it therefore the rules apply. "But he's a veteran!" they scream. So what? Rules are rules are rules. We all have to follow them.

 

[PMedMoe]

What really torques me are people that think that being in the military or a veteran entitles them to a whole bunch of special treatment. The case in point is something I saw that's been going on for a long time - a veteran who was fined by his condo corporation for hanging a flag off his balcony which is a violation of the condo corporation's rules, and something he had been told, repeatedly, to stop doing. To be fair to him, I don't know that this guy was the one who turned it into something big, I suspect it's more civilians who are only too happy to speak for us it seems. It's simple enough in my view. The rules are clear. When he bought the condo, they would have reviewed them with him. His balcony, in most condos, is an exclusive use common area, meaning in layman's terms, he doesn't own it therefore the rules apply. "But he's a veteran!" they scream. So what? Rules are rules are rules. We all have to follow them.

Completely agree.  I had a debate on FB with someone who was on the veteran's side.  The stupid thing is, it wasn't even a flag but a damned windsock!  :

 

[dapaterson]

Completely agree.  I had a debate on FB with someone who was on the veteran's side.  The stupid thing is, it wasn't even a flag but a damned windsock!  :

No - it was a windsock OF FREEDOM!

 

[PMedMoe]

No - it was a windsock OF FREEDOM!

:rofl:

 

[bridges]

I find it ironic that we push ourselves as defenders of freedom and freedom of speech ... yet then see some with (alleged) 'balls' enough telling other people who, as taxpayers and voting citizens, to STFU about their entitled democratic opinion on it.

The irony in that slays me at a double face palm level.

"We fight for your freedom/freedom of speech ... but don't you dare ******* use it."

How absolutely stoopid is that all things considered.

As people have the freedom to display bumper stickers and say things like "STFU" in Facebook posts, so do others have the freedom to analyze and criticize those messages.  That's all we're doing here - exercising our freedom in kind.  No reason we should be compelled to be muzzled on the topic.  And I don't recall anyone telling posters of said bumper stickers not to dare use their freedom. 

Personally I'm heartened to see the silent majority weighing in on this.  I, too, find the bumper stickers annoying, and undermining what we do... ironically.   

No - it was a windsock OF FREEDOM!

Windsock of freedom    ;D    Yep.

 

[armyvern]

As people have the freedom to display bumper stickers and say things like "STFU" in Facebook posts, so do others have the freedom to analyze and criticize those messages.  That's all we're doing here - exercising our freedom in kind.  No reason we should be compelled to be muzzled on the topic.  And I don't recall anyone telling posters of said bumper stickers not to dare use their freedom. 

Personally I'm heartened to see the silent majority weighing in on this.  I, too, find the bumper stickers annoying, and undermining what we do... ironically.   

Windsock of freedom    ;D    Yep.

Actually, it all harkens back to "quiet professionalism" we (collectively) used to be known for ... of days obviously gone by.

 

[Sythen]

Actually, it all harkens back to "quiet professionalism" we (collectively) used to be known for ... of days obviously gone by.

You mean days when there wasn't quick to access public forums to post or say whatever happens to cross your mind at the time? If FB had been around during WW2, the same type of stuff would have been posted. People don't change, only mediums of communication do.

 

[armyvern]

You mean days when there wasn't quick to access public forums to post or say whatever happens to cross your mind at the time? If FB had been around during WW2, the same type of stuff would have been posted. People don't change, only mediums of communication do.

No, I mean days when those in the CF would correct misperceptions and provide information in an attempt to educate those not so much so in a polite manner ... in a first reaction.

Rather than saying "Shut up, you haven't been there" in either words OR bumper stickers OR facebook posters as a first reaction.

Sadly, there are even those who use the same thing on their fellow soldiers - let alone fellow citizens - as some 'newfound'  "right" given that they've "been there, done that" ... "You weren't OTW - STFU/You're useless".

I think it's pretty unprofessional. You may or may not agree. That is your right.

 

[exabedtech]

As people have the freedom to display bumper stickers and say things like "STFU" in Facebook posts, so do others have the freedom to analyze and criticize those messages.  That's all we're doing here - exercising our freedom in kind.  No reason we should be compelled to be muzzled on the topic.  And I don't recall anyone telling posters of said bumper stickers not to dare use their freedom. 

Personally I'm heartened to see the silent majority weighing in on this.  I, too, find the bumper stickers annoying, and undermining what we do... ironically.   

Windsock of freedom    ;D    Yep.

Thank god!  I was starting to think I was the only one completely sick to death of the "fighting for your freedom" crap.  If the military is your chosen profession, you must have had some clue that at some point the job could get pretty tough in more ways than one.  You still signed up.  Please don't ask to be regarded as a hero by everyone you meet or profess deep strategic understanding of world events by virtue of having been deployed or knowing someone who has.

I've hung around with a few paramedics over the past year, and its funny how I NEVER hear them going on about how they should be seen as heros, given special privileges or any other crap like that.  Yet, they save lives on a daily basis in some pretty tough conditions without the benefit of being armed to the teeth.

So you've been to Afghanistan.  Just as thousands of others have.  Followed orders, did your job with the professionalism that is our trademark.  That's pretty awesome, but it hardly gets you a PhD in middle eastern studies. 

Sorry about the rant... a little sorry at least, but I just got off FB where AGAIN some idiot posted that "if you don't stand behind our troops..." crap.    :facepalm:

 

[Sythen]

No, I mean days when those in the CF would correct misperceptions and provide information in an attempt to educate those not so much so in a polite manner ... in a first reaction.

Those good old days that never existed you mean? I am sure, like today, there are those who would politely correct false information.. But just as today, there were those with less patience who said heck with it, you have no idea what you're talking about and I refuse to argue with you so stfu.

Sadly, there are even those who use the same thing on their fellow soldiers - let alone fellow citizens - as some 'newfound'  "right" given that they've "been there, done that" ... "You weren't OTW - STFU/You're useless".

If you get told that you weren't OTW so stfu a lot Vern, it probably means you need to stay inside your lane. I have met FAR more WOGs trying to tell me what it was "really like in Afghanistan" or "I wouldn't have acted like that if I were in his/her position" than I've met Combat Arms who have said "You weren't OTW - STFU/You're useless". Its awesome when I talk to uniformed members with LOG on their slip on telling me all about Afghanistan, now that I am a civvy. The best part is the look on their face when I tell them I was in The RCR for 5 years.

I think it's pretty unprofessional. You may or may not agree. That is your right.

I think its unprofessional to try to talk down to others because they don't act like you believe they should. Its funny though to try to harken back to some time when everyone in the CF was like some movie version of what soldiers should be. This was never the case, and never will be the case.

 

[bick]

The "inside/outside the wire" and "you haven't been to Afghanistan" talk will continue.  This talk goes on in the US and UK militaries and was a highlighted theme in the book, "War." 

I have to agree with Sythen, the people with the hardest stories about Afghanistan are those who did the least fighting.  Not to belittle the support trades.  Without their support, the boots on the ground can't do their job.

 

[armyvern]

...

If you get told that you weren't OTW so stfu a lot Vern, it probably means you need to stay inside your lane. I have met FAR more WOGs trying to tell me what it was "really like in Afghanistan" or "I wouldn't have acted like that if I were in his/her position" than I've met Combat Arms who have said "You weren't OTW - STFU/You're useless". Its awesome when I talk to uniformed members with LOG on their slip on telling me all about Afghanistan, now that I am a civvy. The best part is the look on their face when I tell them I was in The RCR for 5 years.

Actually, never been told that myself ... just see it even on this very site. Just do a search.

"WOG" = WithOut Guts

Ineresting, but baseless, term inferring superiority.

You guys have fun in here.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The "inside/outside the wire" and "you haven't been to Afghanistan" talk will continue.  This talk goes on in the US and UK militaries and was a highlighted theme in the book, "War." 

I have to agree with Sythen, the people with the hardest stories about Afghanistan are those who did the least fighting.  Not to belittle the support trades.  Without their support, the boots on the ground can't do their job.

Can't agree 100%.  I have quite a few friends from the battlegroup that exaggerated their stories.  It's not specifically the support trades that boast shit.
I mean I was on a MSVS course and we had a transport guy (MSE op) from Pet talking about all the tango's he ghosted but just as many battlegroup riflemen dudes tell BS stories.
Anecdotal but I had a friend who was telling everyone in the mess how he flipped out at walmart a week after getting home. The pakistani guy selling him an XBox reminded him of shit "over there" and he wanted to kill the guy.
I called bullshit and asked hiim how many Pakistani guys working in the Walmart in Afghanistan selling XBox's tried to kill him.

It's not just support guys crafting these stories.



I was under the impression WOG was actually "Worn Out Grunts"
You know the guys with time in who spend 20 years busting their knees and backs in the combat arms who decide to CT to a support trade.

Don't see any weakness in putting your time in then sucking back a little and letting the next generation take over.

 

[Sythen]

Can't agree 100%.  I have quite a few friends from the battlegroup that exaggerated their stories.  It's not specifically the support trades that boast crap.
I mean I was on a MSVS course and we had a transport guy (MSE op) from Pet talking about all the tango's he ghosted but just as many battlegroup riflemen dudes tell BS stories.
Anecdotal but I had a friend who was telling everyone in the mess how he flipped out at walmart a week after getting home. The pakistani guy selling him an XBox reminded him of crap "over there" and he wanted to kill the guy.
I called bullshit and asked hiim how many Pakistani guys working in the Walmart in Afghanistan selling XBox's tried to kill him.

It's not just support guys crafting these stories.



I was under the impression WOG was actually "Worn Out Grunts"
You know the guys with time in who spend 20 years busting their knees and backs in the combat arms who decide to CT to a support trade.

Don't see any weakness in putting your time in then sucking back a little and letting the next generation take over.

Never said there aren't those in the Combat Arms who don't do the same. In my personal experience, the majority are WOGs. And I mean WOG as Vern defined it, so there is no doubt.