GET DOWN IN THE HATCH!

[TCBF]

Yes, I was yelling.

When Crew Commanding an AFV on the move, the proper exposure is eyeballs over the ack-ack-rail.  No more, or you risk:

1.  Being hit.
2.  Being thrown from the callsign and crushed or killed if it rolls.

Arms should be inside the turret, unless operating external weapons/eqpt or giving hand signals.  If you ride too high with your elbows above the hatchring, you will not be able to drop down fast enough to avoid ejection.  Especially those of you who have a well developed trunk.

Riding high in the hatch on the move should be done ONLY to create safety, not flaunt it, such as going up to watch for small children when moving slowly through a narrow lane in a tribal village (contact not imminent), or at intersections on an admin road move in Canada.

Use the armour - that's why it is there.  If you can't crew command 'eyeballs up' , then you can't crew command.  There is NO excuse, NONE, for riding high in the turret of ANY AFV cross country or on tracks and trails at speed.

Rant off.

Regards,

Tom

 

[Trinity]

Tom

If they ever let me NEAR an armoured veh.... 

I'd be the luckiest man alive.

But on that note.. I'll remember to stay down in the hatch! 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Thanks Tom,

I was wondering when someone was going to breach the subject.

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

What about LCF!?

Sorry, couldnt help it 

 

[TCBF]

What's LCF?

 

[Armymedic]

What about LCF!?

Sorry, couldnt help it 

You won't look cool with your head squashed like a grape.

 

[GO!!!]

You won't look cool with your head squashed like a grape.

Nonsense, my PHOP will protect me from all threats, from frostbite to tungsten core fin stabilised discarding sabot armour piercing incendiary rounds - even in the face! 

 

[Sig_Des]

LCF= Look Cool Factor

Edit: Nothing cool about a flag-draped coffin off the back of a Herc

 

[TCBF]

Thanks, now what's PHOP?

If youse guys don't cut it out, I'm going to ColdWarAcronym yer butz.

:

Tom

 

[GO!!!]

Thanks, now what's PHOP?

Tom

I was hoping you would ask...

Purple Hat Of Power

Airborne!!  ;D

 

[ZipperHead]

And I thought only the black beret carried with it the power of invincibility! Or is that imbecility?!!??! Unfortunately we don't have a cool acronym for the black beret like PHOP. Maybe BBOD. Black Beret of Doom.

Tom, I couldn't agree with you more about the "ridin' high in the turret". I saw a guy CC'ing a LAV III down highway 7 who was so high in the hatch that he was leaning forward like a ski-jumper. Man, if a stray bird were to get anywhere near him (at pushing 100 km/h) he would have been history.

Now that they make CADPAT in sizes to make Omar the tentmaker jealuous, they may have to increase the size of the turret rings to suit the larger of girth. Seriously though, with all the fightin' and dyin' gear on, even a modestly proportioned person needs to lube up to insert themselves into the hatch, let alone move around to grab gear or play with the radio, etc. Who knows: maybe somebody will have to make a Human Rights claim to get all the Mat Techs working overtime to increase the size of the hatches. But people would still have their kneecaps resting on the sighthead while CC'ing (or gunning).

Al

 

[George Wallace]

Ah!  Yes!  The LCF.  When I was in Germany (Silver helmets - Germany Story) we were constantly ridden to keep down in the hatch.  Granted, it was only a year or two earlier that a Dvr was killed when the top of his head was taken off by the turret.  All because he failed to turn on his Turret Safety Switch when he got up unannounced from his hole and the Turret traversed.  Poignant point was made.  I was surprise a few years after returning to Canada, to go over and see crews exposed from the shoulders up.  As Tom said, it should only be the eyes up. 

How soon people forget.  The same can be said about crawling over or under the gun.  Another Germany story.  A very close friend, a Wpn Tech to boot, died one day when he worked on a gun system in the turret over the lunch hour.  He was crush up against the roof of the turret, and there was no one around to find him.  Several lessons to be learned there.

Carelessness in any job can cost you your life.  There are no shortcuts when it comes to Safety.

 

[Franko]

We had un-written rules as to how we go about doing our buisness in A stan.....

1. Eyes up...not heads up out of the hatches. If the CO saw us too far up he'd have us at the chow in a heart beat. When getting through the gates of KAF or in Kabul we went heads up...where it was safe. No higher than the top of your shoulders though...and the speed limit is 16 km/h....not 30!

2. Shoulder pads off the bloody flak vests. Trying to get down in a hurry in the turret/ GIB holes is hard enough with the things on, never mind the shoulder pads getting caught up on everything on the way down. Keep the neck collar on though....for obviouse reasons.

3. Stand in the turret...on the floor!!!! Not the bloody seat. If you have to ge down in a hurry it's easier than having to waste time flipping the seats up then stepping down. Yes you will get tired and sore....suck it up.

4. Seats for the GIBs...swing seats that can move out of the way quickly. If it can't....you're standing for the whole trip.

5. Turret crews and GIB wear only the flak vests....no TV. Less things to get caught up on.

6. GIBs are up as soon as you leave the gates and never go down until you get back.

7. Gunners will scan using the optics....they're not tourists.

8. Put the cameras away and concentrate on the job. (We noticed a few CSS troops in the Bisons during the road moves doing this....and it was dealt with quickly)

Regards

 

[medicineman]

Now that they make CADPAT in sizes to make Omar the tentmaker jealuous, they may have to increase the size of the turret rings to suit the larger of girth. Seriously though, with all the fightin' and dyin' gear on, even a modestly proportioned person needs to lube up to insert themselves into the hatch, let alone move around to grab gear or play with the radio, etc.

Imagine the fun I get to have when I go over to the Armour school and walk and talk guys through casualty extrications - we've almost dislocated shoulders pulling guys up through the hatches in Coyotes (in fact we almost HAD to do that to get a few people out), and that's without the body armour or tac vest on.  Not to mention some of the near disc and abdominal herniations... ;D  Makes you wonder if the rings were actually made for North Americans.

MM

 

[Caleix]

sorry, couldn't find the acronym for GIB.....care to explain

 

[big bad john]

sorry, couldn't find the acronym for GIB.....care to explain

Guys in the back

 

[Franko]

sorry, couldn't find the acronym for GIB.....care to explain

Air sentry.....Guys in Back   

Regards

 

[lawandorder]

Anyone have any tips for the G-Wagon hatches and getting down quick?  I know its not quite the same as a LAV or Bison, but anyone have any tips for those, or is it all just the same,

 

[TCBF]

"sorry, couldn't find the acronym for GIB.....care to explain"

- AKA: "Trunk Monkeys."

A phrase often bandied about during the infamous "Hull Scum" versus "Turret Scum" euchre games.

 

[McG]

Rant off.

What inspired this?

3. Stand in the turret...on the floor!!!! Not the bloody seat. If you have to ge down in a hurry it's easier than having to waste time flipping the seats up then stepping down. Yes you will get tired and sore....suck it up.

4. Seats for the GIBs...swing seats that can move out of the way quickly. If it can't....you're standing for the whole trip.

These two remind me of my principle beef with the Bison.  That stupid CC seat can't be put out of the way & it does not go low enough to stand on.  It should be ripped out & replaced with a LAV CC seat or nothing at all.