Fat troops on the street....

[mover1]

This issue has been discussed Ad Nuaseam before, in fact there was one very long thread on the subject.  look here http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/1406.0.html

Hatchet Man
CHECK YOUR FIRE. That post is over a year old and if someone wants to start a new and fresh thread on the subject then let him. Besides the person is only asking a question. Someone should take the time and answer properly instead of crapping all over them.

Chopperhead
In answer to your question.Yes there are a lot of "fatties" out there but one explanation for it is that we are an older military and a lot of these guys are just showing the "milddle age spread" This doesn't mean that any of them can't or don't pass the PT tests. A lot do. And a few don't.

Those who don't are given often a second or third chance at passing the PT tests. If they fail after that. Then Adminisrative action is taken against them. (Relesae in some cases)

 

[The_Falcon]

Hatchet Man
CHECK YOUR FIRE. That post is over a year old and if someone wants to start a new and fresh thread on the subject then let him. Besides the person is only asking a question. Someone should take the time and answer properly instead of crapping all over them.

1) What the heck?   So the thread is old, many threads get resurrected from time to time.    Why start a new thread about topic that can be a very "heated" when there is already one. 2) I wasn't crapping on Chopperead this time, I simply stated that this topic has been brought up before.





Mod edit for content and relevance.

 

[CREW ACTION]

This is the result of a army with no standard's or should i say standards its not willing to enforce!!!!

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

i have a problem with some of the remarks made here .
I was R031, I could not run like shit for the longest time, could not do push ups, never could to them. I remusterd at the end of 031 training which I passed.
I became a Pay  Clerk,  did my  CLC and passed it the PT  was a killer, but I learned to over come it. I can out route march anyone I know, I can walk for days non stop.  Just could never run far.  I learned to do both with some effort.

CRS training started when I came back to the HQ i was working at and I passed the 3.2k run with equipment in over 17 minutes, not bad timing at all , I made the gold run time limit.
Next year I went to the Guards and I did the run, CSS trade I was the fastest man in the Unit of the Full Time Staffers, run was just over 16 minutes, made gold standard again.  I stopped on my  run to take off my  bush cap to put my  beret so I could finish with the log badge showing.

I was 6' 2 plus, weighed in at a grand total 155 pounds soaking wet with web grear, helmet and rifle. What made the change in my  running I got tired of being left behind and  having to run to catch up , watching the troops wait for me on break then when i got to the break point it was over because I had to keep up. You want to play  with the big dogs, you have to work at.  I am now 35 years old, weigh in at 185, i can still run 10 minute mile, no more 7 minute miles for me.

Not all CSS trades are fat and out of shape. I was a skin and bones CSS trades who was out of shape. I could run and shoot and do the payrolll at the same time.

But I do not like it when I see over weight people on parade. When I was R031 will not say  the unit, but it was in Ottawa dstrict, there a female CSS not sure of her trade, Sgt Major, the former CO and new CO forbid her to be on parade, her combats  had 2 extra seams in the pants so she could fit in them.  walk across the parade the square and she would be winded, but what ever she did for the unit she was good at, just not allowed on the parade square to lead the HQ COY as the Sgt Major, a WO Cook trade did that. He was a skinny  cook.

I think PT training should be just as important as drill practice and weapons. Mybe diet training would come in there somewhere.

 

[casing]

FHG,

Good on you for your work ethic.  However, and perhaps it's just me, but I'm really not sure what you are attempting to say with your post.  Having fatties in the forces is bad... good... acceptable...?  Having skinnie, out of shapers in the forces is bad... good... acceptable...?  All three depending upon the circumstances...?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

So is that Casing, as in shell...empty... or...sausage.

Sorry, just taking a mickey at you. I couldn't resist

 

[Bartok5]

I've seen all shapes and sizes over the past 26 years.  My only experience-based criteria is this:  can you hump 90 lbs of fighting order and another 75 lbs of battle order at 10,000' AGL while remaining situationally aware?  If so, then you are "good to go" in my books, regardless of how you look in DEUs.  End of story.

Far be it from me to harp on the same old song, but I've never seen anyone on combat operations wearing silk running shorts, a "wicking" shirt, and $150 Nike running shoes.  Call me a dinosaur, but if you can hump the load and do the business then you are OK in my books - regardless of body-type.  Gazelles are great, and sometimes they can even carry a soldier's load for more than a day or two.  Sometimes.....

Just me thinking out loud..... 

 

[Kat Stevens]

Some of us are thoroughbreds, some are carthorses, both have their uses. A thoroughbred can't pull a beer wagon and shouldn't be expected to. Conversely, speaking as a carthorse, I'll never win the Queens Plate.  But I always did my job, and, if I may say so, did it rather well.  I agree with all you biggie bashers, we should never have to go on parade and disgrace our uniform and our nation.  But don't forget, it's the big guys that build your bridges...

Kat

 

[paracowboy]

thoroughbred, quarterhorse, shetland pony, draft horse...they get too damn fat, they ain't worth nuthin' but glue and dog food.
Should we all be Olympic athletes? Sure.
Will we? No.
Should we be rampant with escapees from Jenny Craig's Fat Farm? No.
Are we? Yes.
We have people so obese they can't fit in the turret of an APC. We have people who are winded walking across a parade square. I remember one dude who couldn't fit in the door of a pizza shop. He had to go through the delivery bay! Tell me how effective they are. There shouldn't even be waist sizes made that large in cbt pants (and what exactly are 'combat' pants, anyway? Extremely aggressive trousers?).

Same goes for skinny li'l grass-snakes that can't hump a ruck with spare ammo and a radio. Not effective.

We needs to be makin' folks adhere to the standards. Not to their couches.

 

[Britney Spears]

Funny story time. I recently witnessed a woman on an MG course who, honest to god, cannot keep up with the rest of the course when marching from the shacks to the mess hall. If the MG course had a PO check called "Carry the gun across the parade square 3x times without dying" she would have failed the course. There was not and she did not. Nor did she, in the ample downtime that is troops have on an MG course, engage in PT on her own time, EVER. I find this kind of phenomenon exasperating and I am furious that she is now, on paper, just as qualified as her course mates, most of whom went for runs and ruckmarches every morning on their own time and engaged in more PT again in the evening, as professional soldiers should. People like this are the reason why there is so much resistance to women in the combat arms, and unless we put in place realistic standards of physical fitness, this stuff just plain ain't going to work.

 

[silentbutdeadly]

lol paracowboy! hit the nail right om the freakin head! going back a few reply's....yes if he can carry a ruck he is good in my booksss?.....sorry but its what you do when you get there that means living and dyin!~ i see tons of other trades ruckin around the base, but hell there look like there going to die when there done and when your finish you should be able to fight or should i say peacekeep! haha :threat:

 

[paracowboy]

lol paracowboy! hit the nail right om the freakin head! going back a few reply's....yes if he can carry a ruck he is good in my booksss?.....sorry but its what you do when you get there that means living and dyin!~ i see tons of other trades ruckin around the base, but heck there look like there going to die when there done and when your finish you should be able to fight or should i say peacekeep! haha :threat:

stop helping me.

 

[Young KH]

Does anyone remember the addage of shoot for the center of the largest mass. For the smaller and faster guys, you should be happy to have someone larger and slower then you out there. Most of the enemy will shoot the big guy first for two reasons, easier to hit and because you don't want to go Hand to Hand with the heavy weights.

 

[silentbutdeadly]

Fine your on your own!

 

[DVessey]

I just read through this whole thread. Physical fitness is something my peers and I discuss on a regular basis, mainly due to the sea cadets being here at RMC during the summer. There are a definately a few 'waddlers' around...

I also think the following article from the Canadian Military Journal is quite applicable to the topic at hand:
http://www.journal.forces.gc.ca/engraph/Vol6/no1/12-ViewsOpinions1_e.asp

My favourite quote from that is 'Fitness is a leadership issue, and leadership is by example'.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Does anyone remember the addage of shoot for the center of the largest mass.

"Aim for the centre of the visible mass"

 

[Young KH]

"Aim for the centre of the visible mass"

heheheheh Are you following me??

 

[Fishbone Jones]

heheheheh Are you following me??

Yes, it's becoming a full time job correcting misinformation.

 

[Recce41]

What pisses me off, is the soldier that is a sack of crap, Fat, Skinny,Tall,Short. This summer I have seen, soldiers, Reg and Res, that look like crap. A Snr NCO (Sgt) that 5hits on a yng soldier with dirty boots, but has more dirty on his uniform. Than the poor yng soldier who just screwed up.
A few weeks ago, I had seen it. Well, that Snr NCO payed for it.

 

[armywoman]

As someone who has battled my weight for about 15 years now I have to say that I have a lot of opinions on this. For the education of those who think that fatties should not be allowed in. I will give you some insight to this self proclaimed fattie. I am 5'3" so even a little weight is noticeable on me.

Firstly I am an intolerant fattie, I hate listening to others say that they have diseases, glandular problems, etc for their weight problems.   I personally eat when I am depressed which if I don't exercise enough causes me to gain weight..Pretty much textbook.   I don't make excuses for it like that should give me a pity exemption from pt, but I can and will admit truthfully what my problem is.

Having read all of the posts I have to say that there are some who have made some really harsh assumptions on all fatties. I can not speak for all, but I do personally do not eat Krispee Cremes, or any other type of pastry, except if not presented an option.   As well I very seldom eat junk food at all.

I recently failed my pt test..   An extremely depressing fact since it was the second time.   I have since lost 20 lbs but still find it is more emotional then physical.   In my quest for 'unfattiness' I have hired a personal trainer (army friend so he charged my half of what I would normally have paid)   Cut down on food intake although I find some times I am weak and go back to old habits.

I passed everything on the pt test except the run *&$%@!!!!
I have never been a strong runner, as a matter of fact I normally joke that running should only be done when a crazy man with a knife is chasing you, or it is gift with purchase time at the Estee Lauder counter. Even as a kid I would join sports but sucked at the running part.

Despite this an officer at my unit is a runner with the CF, I approached her a month ago and told her quite plainly I hate running, but I have too and want to, can you help me.   She did.   She wrote me out a program that involves walking to start, stretching then every workout adding a couple of minutes to the jogging section.
I am doing that, paddling (kayaking and dragonboating), going for speed walks.   The workup training for the BFT is in Sept, I have started already, by hiking.

Just recently I found out from a friend that my chain of command had let slip the results of my pt test.   Some of the comments I found out about made even the rudest ones here look tame.
Sadly however the ones who have had the most to say, are HUGE themselves and they stopped doing all exercise as soon as the BFT was over, and don't start exercising until the next year.  
Apparently I am lazy and I do not want to even try the BFT. The medical officer put unfit BFT on my chit.   Something I argued against. Ever see a Cpl arguing with a CWO?   I did not want to be singled out. In the end he told me as soon as I strengthen up a bit he would change it.
Needless to say when the comments were flying around about me, my chain did not feel fit to mention that I was not allowed too. Really if you have nothing better do except bad mouth your troops at least give out accurate information.   I won't be taking a bullet for any of them.   That is hard for me to say but there you go.
Any who!   I am on remedial, doing my own running, going for speed walks/jogging with my section commander..who talks incessantly while doing push ups, about how he is not able to do very good push ups because they have bad wrists, (he can do 2 sometimes 3 okay pushups) he can not do as many situps as me, either. This is a person who looks like they are in shape too.
Yada yada!   bottom line for physical fitness in the military is the following
1. Reserves or regs pt should be mandatory everyday.   Never thought you would hear a fattie say that huh!   I have tried arguing that at my reserve unit, but it is a money issue.   'They are only here part time if they get injured there are too many hassles for the military, if they get hurt'   It has been a while since I got in, did we not have to sign something that explained the job and the expectations ???
2. Discipline by example.   There is nothing worse then a out of shape officer or SNCM preaching about pt.
3.Have people qualified to conduct pt, do so.   It also helps if they are able to do it as well.
4.Regardless of the time and money pt should not ever be cut from course curriculum.   It is too important to the job.   If the day has to be longer to get things done, or the course an extra week..so be it.
I have since convinced the CWO to remove unfit BFT... WOohoo, go me!!!.   I hate ruck marches, but if the job says you have to, I will.

Incidentally I have met guys and girls on my courses that are extremely fit but are the biggest wimps, whining about everything. Personally I would prefer to have someone heavy on my course, if they work their *** off to deserve to be there.
  Fat comes and goes, whiny ******* stays forever.