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DND to refit some Sea Kings as troop carriers

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http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060528/sea_kings_060528

The Dept. of National Defence plans to turn five Sea King helicopters -- which have a history of reliability problems -- into troop carriers.

In Afghanistan, Canadian troops don't have their own helicopters. The British, Americans and Dutch all do.

Ironically, the Dutch bought their Chinook helicopters from Canada about a decade ago, and are now using them in Afghanistan, where they occasionally give lifts to Canadian troops.

One defence analyst thinks that in general, this refitting could be a good idea.

"The beauty of that is you could rely on Canadian Forces pilots and Canadian Forces equipment not only to deploy troops but more significantly in some cases to deploy reinforcements and to bring back casualties if you had those," said Col. Michel Drapeau (ret'd).

However, the five Sea Kings to be refitted first went into use in 1970 and were acquired mainly for anti-submarine warfare.

Thirty-six years after their acquisition, Drapeau has doubts about whether they can be made suitable for new missions.

"The Sea King has got a reputation as being an unreliable piece of equipment that has basically outlived its useful life," he said.

The aircraft have the grim nickname within the military -- "flying coffins." There have been at least 14 Sea King crashes since they were introduced four decades ago. Four of them were fatal.

Military sources tell CTV News the Sea Kings could be used in Afghanistan, but most will likely end up providing ship-to-shore troop transport from naval ships.

NDP defence critic Dawn Black used the refitting to blast both the Tories and Liberals.

"What it points to is years of inaction by both previous Conservative governments and Liberal governments to insure our military personnel have adequate and safe equipment," she said.

Drapeau echoed part of that sentiment, saying, "The men and women in uniform have to get the sense of confidence that the equipment the Canadian public is providing them is the best money can buy."

The refits are expected to cost $5.5 million and are intended to be an interim measure. New helicopters for the army aren't due to arrive until 2008.

 
Yeah, an NDP member is sure one to talk when it comes to what's best for our military...
 
Try this thread that's already running on the same topic:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/39557.0.html
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/32837.0.html
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/43579.0.html
 
Still, it is kinda cool watching the NDP trying to do a 180 and become the soldier's friend.  If only decades of history could be quietly redone :-[
 
When I was at 423, I never heard them referred to as "Flying coffins." I am a little disappointed that the writer couldn't come up with another more dangerous sounding nickname- like Ghost Makers, or 21 Gunner, or "Fly this airframe and you will surely die thingy..."  ::)

New helicopters for the army aren't due to arrive until 2008.
What aircraft is the army getting? I'm sure they don't mean the Cyclone... do they?

<sarcasm on>
Excellent piece of journalism.
<sarcasm off>

edited for sarcasm and spelling.
 
So let's see...IMP is doing the refit...and that will take how long?
The likely hood of the refit being completed before the new helicopters arrive is?

Couldn't help commenting...I have been inside a gutted SeaKing (in the fuel cell too)...not that I know anything about the mechanical end of the aircraft...I have watched refits in process...they are sometimes quite lengthy...pieces needed to be custom built or custom ordered...and so on

My 2 cents

HL
 
??? I really don't see the logic of DND going down this route. Great machine for it's day, but it's day is almost done.

If it is a matter of utilizing a repair category of the budget to provide helicopters, it's going to blow back in their faces. They would be better off leasing some Chinooks in it's stead.
 
GAP said:
??? I really don't see the logic of DND going down this route. Great machine for it's day, but it's day is almost done.

For what it's worth...

My father was a FE (Flight Engineer) on the Argus (replaced in '80-'81 with the Aurora, which is now an aging airframe) and he retired with the Argus (after 28 years service), to give you a timeline.

When he got out (25 years ago), he said that the Seaking was an old airframe THEN...before he was a FE, he was what was then called an Airframe Tech and had 15 years turning wrenches before OTing to FE. 

Now, I am not a maritime aviator, but he was and I remember him talking about the effects the maritime environment has on airframes (sea salt, turbulent air from constanct waves, how hard ASW Ops could be on the airframe, etc etc) and, being that he was Sgn FE Leader in 415 and received a CDS Commendation, I am assuming he knew he shite.

for those interested about the Argus...

http://www.forceaerienne.forces.gc.ca/equip/historical/arguslst_e.asp

Now, check out this one on the Seaking and look at the "Years Procured" info...

http://www.forceaerienne.forces.gc.ca/equip/ch-124/intro_e.asp

yikes!

 
Whats the refit going to consist of ,two tone green paint.lol Well past it's retirement date.
 
bubba said:
Whats the refit going to consist of ,two tone green paint.lol Well past it's retirement date.

Yes it is very important that all Naval personnel and equipment be transformed into instruments of the Jarmy......CADPAT for Seakings...woo hoo!!
 
Hey Cuteboots, why bash the NDP?  It was the Conservatives who sold the Chinooks to the Dutch.
 
C and P said:
Hey Cuteboots, why bash the NDP?  It was the Conservatives who sold the Chinooks to the Dutch.

Good point    ;)

As for the Seakings being retrofitted for the land elements....you'll never see this guy volunteering to go for a spin in one.

Sorry, just known too many friends go down in them over the years. I just don't trust them one bit.

Regards
 
This isn't the best plan I've heard today  ::)

So many questions, some addressed above. Bottom line, I concur w/ Recce, I wouldn't be in a rush to board one. I can see the headlines now.
 
Enzo said:
This isn't the best plan I've heard today  ::)

So many questions, some addressed above. Bottom line, I concur w/ Recce, I wouldn't be in a rush to board one. I can see the headlines now.

unless it was at an airshow, ground display and had free sandwiches on it or something?

(just kidding to all the Seaking drivers out there...all in good fun  ;D)
 
There are some that have been in refit for what seems to be years in my experience...some of the Airframe mechanics/AVS Techs love the Seakings and say they are a great rotary wing aircraft and others have mentioned they think they have gone the way of the dinosaur...

Would be really nice to see new aircraft purchased...

HL
 
I am pretty sure this idea is dead.  It surfaced a while back in like February or something like that.  But they looked at the cost and risk and arrival of new helos for the Navy and possible some new birds for the boys in green and decided against it.  I will try and find the article it was in once found I will post here, for your enjoyment.

 
Wizard of OZ said:
I am pretty sure this idea is dead.  It surfaced a while back in like February or something like that.  But they looked at the cost and risk and arrival of new helos for the Navy and possible some new birds for the boys in green and decided against it.  I will try and find the article it was in once found I will post here, for your enjoyment.

Um ok but I have a parishioner at Shearwater (St Michael's Chapel) who is a SeaKing pilot and he told me that they had started on this.....I'll check with him again and see whether in fact they are still working on this.
 
http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-ch124troopcarrier.htm

This link shows that they are getting 5 ready to go some time in Nov/Dec of 2006.  These 5 will not be going to Afghanistan but will be sent to the Standing Contingency Task Force, They are not capable of operation in the stan.  I remember this idea was killed by the CDS last year.  Hope this makes things a little clearer.

We will soon have 5 Sea King Medium lift Troop Carriers.
 
Why can't the CF use Griffons in Afghanistan for troop transport? Too small? Are there any CF aircraft operating over there?
 
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