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Defending Canadian Arctic Sovereignty

torg003

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From what I've read, the main reason the Russians sold Alaska to the Yanks is that they didn't want the British to gain control of it.

Anyway, I don't think the Danes will want to sell Greenland off, whether it's to the US or Canada.
 

lenaitch

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Greenland is working its way towards independence of sorts. I think they can easily look at our northern policies and decide that perhaps its not in their best interest.
Is that like being sort of pregnant? Fifty six thousand people to support 2 million square kilometers - not much of an economy. Perhaps they've been reading Quebec's and Scotland's mail.
 

Spencer100

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Is that like being sort of pregnant? Fifty six thousand people to support 2 million square kilometers - not much of an economy. Perhaps they've been reading Quebec's and Scotland's mail.
Greenland is a net drain on the Denmark government coffers.

"GDP per capita is close to the average for European economies, but the economy is critically dependent upon substantial support from the Danish government, which supplies about half the revenues of the Self-rule Government, which in turn employs 10,307 Greenlanders[11] out of 25,620 currently in employment (2015). Unemployment nonetheless remains high, with the rest of the economy dependent upon demand for exports of shrimp and fish.[12]"

 

Underway

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Is that like being sort of pregnant? Fifty six thousand people to support 2 million square kilometers - not much of an economy. Perhaps they've been reading Quebec's and Scotland's mail.
On 21 June 2009, Greenland gained self-rule with provisions for assuming responsibility for self-government of judicial affairs, policing, and natural resources. Also, Greenlanders were recognized as a separate people under international law. Denmark maintains control of foreign affairs and defence matters. Denmark upholds the annual block grant of 3.2 billion Danish kroner, but as Greenland begins to collect revenues of its natural resources, the grant will gradually be diminished. This is generally considered to be a step toward eventual full independence from Denmark.

Basically, Greenland is a semi-independent country as part of the Kingdom of Denmark. They are a little further down the road to country than Canadian provinces.
 

lenaitch

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On 21 June 2009, Greenland gained self-rule with provisions for assuming responsibility for self-government of judicial affairs, policing, and natural resources. Also, Greenlanders were recognized as a separate people under international law. Denmark maintains control of foreign affairs and defence matters. Denmark upholds the annual block grant of 3.2 billion Danish kroner, but as Greenland begins to collect revenues of its natural resources, the grant will gradually be diminished. This is generally considered to be a step toward eventual full independence from Denmark.

Basically, Greenland is a semi-independent country as part of the Kingdom of Denmark. They are a little further down the road to country than Canadian provinces.
Sounds somewhat familiar.
 

dapaterson

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A now deceased family friend spent some time walking across Denmark.

Seems his aircraft experienced a catastrophic failure due to the Luftwaffe taking a dim view of them dropping bombs on Stettin, so he had to escape overland to Copenhagen.
 

McG

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He's completely correct. Step 2 is missing. Arctic investments should be done more for the people that live there than imaginary sovereignty threats. If that is done then the sovereignty problem takes care of itself.
If the people living in the north feel alienated from the remainder of the country, that is a real sovereignty threat.
Therefore, it is sovereignty investment when you are developing dual-use infrastructure that supports the community 99% of the time.
 

rmc_wannabe

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He's completely correct. Step 2 is missing. Arctic investments should be done more for the people that live there than imaginary sovereignty threats. If that is done then the sovereignty problem takes care of itself.
"All of this is Rome...according to the Romans"

I agree wholeheartedly that we need to work on that Step 2. Folks who live North of 60 might as well be on another planet compared to what goes on in Ottawa. Their needs, wants, and ways to better their situation should come before any rush to beef up our military presence in the Arctic. My experiences in Nunavut highlight that food security, poverty, and education would go further to staking our claim than the NWS or a poorly populated garrison in Inuvik.
 

Skysix

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"All of this is Rome...according to the Romans"

I agree wholeheartedly that we need to work on that Step 2. Folks who live North of 60 might as well be on another planet compared to what goes on in Ottawa. Their needs, wants, and ways to better their situation should come before any rush to beef up our military presence in the Arctic. My experiences in Nunavut highlight that food security, poverty, and education would go further to staking our claim than the NWS or a poorly populated garrison in Inuvik.
Not just Nunavut either, Yukon, NWT and the northern portions of SK, MB, ON and Nunavik
 

TacticalTea

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He's completely correct. Step 2 is missing. Arctic investments should be done more for the people that live there than imaginary sovereignty threats. If that is done then the sovereignty problem takes care of itself.
That was my observation as well from touring the communities. The best thing we can do up there is get them jobs. That will secure their future as individuals, and that of their communities.

And stop treating them like the government's foster children. Crime is crime. Parenthood is not a get-rich-quick scheme.
 

lenaitch

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That was my observation as well from touring the communities. The best thing we can do up there is get them jobs. That will secure their future as individuals, and that of their communities.

And stop treating them like the government's foster children. Crime is crime. Parenthood is not a get-rich-quick scheme.
Great idea but how is that reconciled with their right/desire to live on their traditional land on in their home community that has little to no inherent economy? I'm not familiar with the arctic but the comment about the similarity in the territories and north portions of provinces is apt. When you live in a community of a few hundred perched in the middle of the bush or the shore of the arctic sea, where do the jobs come from beyond a possible few in tourism or government, or possible a nearby mine, which seems rather serendipitous.
 

Underway

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That was my observation as well from touring the communities. The best thing we can do up there is get them jobs. That will secure their future as individuals, and that of their communities.

And stop treating them like the government's foster children. Crime is crime. Parenthood is not a get-rich-quick scheme.
Being judgemental about their situation says more about you than it does about them. You would be behaving exactly the same as them given the situation. It's survival mode and I don't think many people understand that.

Crime is cultural as is parenthood and the expectations thereof. When you destroy a culture WTF do you think replaces it? Exactly what you saw.
 

Kirkhill

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This is the counter-point to the Arctic. The Greater Golden Horseshoe.


About the Greater Golden Horseshoe​

The Greater Golden Horseshoe (GGH) is the urban region centred around the City of Toronto, located at the western end of Lake Ontario. It stretches north to Georgian Bay, south to Lake Erie, west to Wellington County and Waterloo Region, and east to the counties of Peterborough and Northumberland. Home to 10 million people and 4.9 million jobs, the GGH is the economic engine of Ontario and one of the fastest growing regions in North America.
The Greater Golden Horseshoe (GGH) is a large urban region centred around Toronto, encompassing Waterloo, Brant and Haldimand in the west, Niagara to the south, Simcoe in the north, and Peterborough and Northumberland in the east. (Figure 1) It is home to 10 million people, or over 60% of Ontario’s population.

The GGH is the economic engine of the province. Two-thirds of Ontario’s gross domestic product (GDP) is generated here.

I take issue with the concept of the region, or any region, generating GDP. I see GDP as a measure of activity, much like number of lights at night or number of cell calls made, or even population. GDP doesn't, in my opinion, tell us anything about the quality of the economy, just that there is an economy.

The Golden Horseshoe justifiably gets attention because it has a large population, that makes a large number of cell calls, turns on a lot of lights and trades a lot of money.

A well-functioning transportation system is critical to economic prosperity. Time waiting for a bus, time stuck in traffic on the way to meet a client or to make a delivery – all of these are costs to our economy.

Infrastructure investments haven’t kept up and won’t meet future needs on their own. Over the 15-year period of 2001-2016, travel demand on the highways grew three times faster than the rate of new road construction during this time.

Canada inherited an ongoing operating cost and a moral responsibility when it decided to buy some of the Hudson Bay Company's rights to Rupert's Land. It costs money to operate an enterprise with that much in the way of physical infrastructure, all that land is analogous to a business that is heavily invested in bricks and mortar. It is easy to lose money.

The solution, short of divesting of the holdings entirely and selling them off to somebody else, is to develop the economy so that it becomes an attractive place for financial investment and for people to invest their lives and livelihoods. So that it becomes a place where people can see their futures. A place that allows people to start exploiting opportunities that they see. A place where people are willing to take risks despite knowing that most risks fail. But people survive.

The key to that development is A well-functioning transportation system

That is as true today as it was when Darius created the Royal Highways of Asia 2500 years ago or James the Sixth opened up the Royal Mail routes to the paying public. It has been true for the millenia that people have exploited waterways and ice, all over the world, to trade.

We may never see a payoff from investing in the North and Northerners. It might be that the best we can achieve is at some point in the future defraying the cost of the investments. But somebody, someday, may come up with a successful model that exploits the assets available in a constantly changing environment.

The opportunity is Canada's. If Canada doesn't exploit the opportunity to help the locals there are other people, Europeans, Americans, Russians, Chinese, that are interested in buying a stake themselves.
 
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