A
aesop081
Guest
Are we thinking of closing this topic ?
Danny Williams lowers the Canadian Flag
- Thread starter Bograt
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I have witnessed alot of people bringing good points from both sides and alot of Liberal bashing, something that. IMO, has been quite rampant lately. My allegiances are certainly not with Paulie and his cronies, however I fail to see the point of trashing them repeatedly in a public forum, that sort of thing doesn't do a damn thing to back up ones argument.
- Reaction score
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All right, the lock has come off this thread as the "mods" decided it could be saved, HOWEVER, lets stick with the story and not just use it as an excuse to throw in one-liners on how the lynching of[pick one] Martin/Williams will be carried out.
Bruce
Bruce
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Ok first of I was Screeched in, and spent 7 years on the Rock, so I guess that does give me the right to comment. Danny is posturing that's all. Taking down the flag is childish and wrong. That said and done if it gets Baby Doc Martin to stop friggin waffling on just one thing start making decisions and in this case honouring deals maybe and I stress maybe the ends justify the means in this place.
The whole Hibernia thing, and Nflds economic dependence on the rest of the country is as long and convoluted as the â Å“lets bribe the separatists in Quebec to stay another 10 yearsâ ? concept. I remember in 1980 when then Premier Brian Peckford was almost saying they'd soon be rolling 55 gallon oil drums down Water St in St John's and we'd all be millionaires. Still waiting to see that one.
As for the $8,000,000.00 extra Toronto dumps into the Federal coffers annually, with this present incompetent Mayor and his bunch of socialist politically correct lapdogs on council, I'm not sure I'd want Toronto to have that money. God knows what they'd waste it on. More aesthetic suicide prevention barriers on bridges, lattes for the homeless, converting the DVP into all bike lanes, banning drinking music and enjoying yourself in a bar....
Finally 5,000 homeless in Toronto? Even Saint Jack, Patron Saint of the Political Correct Sound Bite, never came up with a number that high. Realistic estimates are 300-600 and that gap of 300 is because no one is willing to actually count them, preferring to pull a number out of their arse to justify the dollars tossed at the problem.
The whole Hibernia thing, and Nflds economic dependence on the rest of the country is as long and convoluted as the â Å“lets bribe the separatists in Quebec to stay another 10 yearsâ ? concept. I remember in 1980 when then Premier Brian Peckford was almost saying they'd soon be rolling 55 gallon oil drums down Water St in St John's and we'd all be millionaires. Still waiting to see that one.
As for the $8,000,000.00 extra Toronto dumps into the Federal coffers annually, with this present incompetent Mayor and his bunch of socialist politically correct lapdogs on council, I'm not sure I'd want Toronto to have that money. God knows what they'd waste it on. More aesthetic suicide prevention barriers on bridges, lattes for the homeless, converting the DVP into all bike lanes, banning drinking music and enjoying yourself in a bar....
Finally 5,000 homeless in Toronto? Even Saint Jack, Patron Saint of the Political Correct Sound Bite, never came up with a number that high. Realistic estimates are 300-600 and that gap of 300 is because no one is willing to actually count them, preferring to pull a number out of their arse to justify the dollars tossed at the problem.
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Danjanou said:
Isn't this maybe taking things just a bit far? I know we're kidding around and everything, but I think we've got a long way to go before we can start comparing Martin to a tyrannous Haitian dictator.
Danjanou said:
I was going to try to refute this. Then I went to Out of the Cold's website. It states that: "A total of 31,985 different people stayed in Toronto's emergency shelters in 2002; almost 5,000 were children." So, 31,985 / 365 days a year = a grand total of 88 per night. That would seem to refute the 5,000 number pretty easily. I'd be surprised if the number were actually as low as 88 (it almost certainly isn't, as this doesn't include those who choose to sleep on the street), but wow, that's certainly a much lower number than I thought.
P
Peace_Keeper
Guest
What Danny Williams has done is disrespectful but making a point. I've lived here all me life now b'ys so listen up.
Promise of all oil + Not doing that = BIG MESS
understand?
Promise of all oil + Not doing that = BIG MESS
understand?
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Yesterday Priemier Danny Williams (Nfld) ordered that all the Canadian flags be removed from Provincial buildings in a sign of protest over the Federal Governments refusal to honour it's promise to give Nfld 100% of offshore oil revinue.
Do you think this is a wise political move with deeper ramifications or a purely political stunt?
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/12/24/williams041224.html
Personally I think well done! It's about time the provinces took Ottawa to task and started voicing their disaproval.
When the Federal Government has had billion dollar surpluses for the last 10? years why would they want to keep Nfld in the have not category rather than having a strong and financially independant province. The same thing goes for NS.
What is the feeling about this move from the Rock? Anyone here care to share their insight?
Do you think this is a wise political move with deeper ramifications or a purely political stunt?
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/12/24/williams041224.html
Personally I think well done! It's about time the provinces took Ottawa to task and started voicing their disaproval.
When the Federal Government has had billion dollar surpluses for the last 10? years why would they want to keep Nfld in the have not category rather than having a strong and financially independant province. The same thing goes for NS.
What is the feeling about this move from the Rock? Anyone here care to share their insight?
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I am from the east(not newfoundland) and now I live in edmonton. People here are always bitching about how the east soaks off the west. Now Newfoundland wants something for themselves to help themselves and the government doesnt want to let them have it. I say good for them. Take the flag down in protest, it's not like they are burning the flags or anything.
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
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But, what will Newfoundland do with those monies? Have they demonstrated that the money would be used to good effect? It is one thing to say "sure, keep the money you make" but if they spend it like sailors on liberty, what good does it do....I am certainly not saying that is the case, but does Newfoundland have a plan for these monies?
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I'm sorry, but there's no excuse for this act! The flag is sacred and represents all that is Canada. It's what I work for while I'm here, overseas, or where ever else I may be that I can proudly support the Maple Leaf on my uniform (not to mention my tattoo). One just has to look at the DND Maltese Cross crest and what do we find in the middle???(just look at my avatar for those who don't know).
I don't know how Premier Williams can call his land mass a "Province", seems how he all but excludes himself from the right to use that word through his actions.
We've had our issues with Quebec, most recently the Remembrance Day Canada Flag fiasco. And, whether you're a Newfoundlander/Labradorian or not, I'm sure we won't soon forget that. I can't seem to put this in any other mind frame other than "Disgraceful and UnCanadian as they come."
I realize what him and Premier Hamm are fighting for, and agree with their reasoning (heck, I am in Nova Scotia, after all). But there is no way possible that I can support the tactics of Mr. Williams. What he's fighting for...Yes, but not the way in which he employs his fight. Granted, this is my opinion, and for once...I refuse to be open-minded when it comes to the Canadian Flag being used as a tool. I don't give Quebec any leeway, nor will I give such to any other place.
It's a real sin that I will now associate this action every time I think of Newfoundlander's/Labradorian's, some of the truest and nicest people that we have in Canada.
Chimo!
I don't know how Premier Williams can call his land mass a "Province", seems how he all but excludes himself from the right to use that word through his actions.
We've had our issues with Quebec, most recently the Remembrance Day Canada Flag fiasco. And, whether you're a Newfoundlander/Labradorian or not, I'm sure we won't soon forget that. I can't seem to put this in any other mind frame other than "Disgraceful and UnCanadian as they come."
I realize what him and Premier Hamm are fighting for, and agree with their reasoning (heck, I am in Nova Scotia, after all). But there is no way possible that I can support the tactics of Mr. Williams. What he's fighting for...Yes, but not the way in which he employs his fight. Granted, this is my opinion, and for once...I refuse to be open-minded when it comes to the Canadian Flag being used as a tool. I don't give Quebec any leeway, nor will I give such to any other place.
It's a real sin that I will now associate this action every time I think of Newfoundlander's/Labradorian's, some of the truest and nicest people that we have in Canada.
Chimo!
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Garbageman
to stray of topic a tad, welcome to one of TO's favourite and most profitable pastimes, the poverty game. No one really wants to solve it, because it's so easy to milk it for all you can, and no one dares criticize you as that would be the same as "attacking the homeless" and nobody could be that cruel right. Take those numbers you pullled up, which are generous BTW, and divide the number of millions the City of Toronto alone tosses at the homeless problem every year into them. Get a pretty number eh.
If you take the total spent per homeless it would be better to give everyone of them a cheque at the beginning of the year and say here you go here's $30,000-$60,000 to live on for the year. Don't come back for 12 months. All that money and the problem is still growing, wonder why?
End off topic rant.
Back on topic. As noted several times here Danny is a bit of a publicity hound. (mind what Politician ain't) This stunt was designed to draw attention to this situation and surprise it has. Look at the number of posts on this thread and how heated the debate has become at times, CBLA aside.
As for my little pet nickname for our beloved leader. I thought it was appropriate. Crewtin was often referred to here and elsewhere as Papa Doc. Who replaced Papa Doc Duvalier, his dithering son. 8)
to stray of topic a tad, welcome to one of TO's favourite and most profitable pastimes, the poverty game. No one really wants to solve it, because it's so easy to milk it for all you can, and no one dares criticize you as that would be the same as "attacking the homeless" and nobody could be that cruel right. Take those numbers you pullled up, which are generous BTW, and divide the number of millions the City of Toronto alone tosses at the homeless problem every year into them. Get a pretty number eh.
If you take the total spent per homeless it would be better to give everyone of them a cheque at the beginning of the year and say here you go here's $30,000-$60,000 to live on for the year. Don't come back for 12 months. All that money and the problem is still growing, wonder why?
End off topic rant.
Back on topic. As noted several times here Danny is a bit of a publicity hound. (mind what Politician ain't) This stunt was designed to draw attention to this situation and surprise it has. Look at the number of posts on this thread and how heated the debate has become at times, CBLA aside.
As for my little pet nickname for our beloved leader. I thought it was appropriate. Crewtin was often referred to here and elsewhere as Papa Doc. Who replaced Papa Doc Duvalier, his dithering son. 8)
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I am a maritimer that went away and then came back. There are canadians that believe that the east has it easy with all of the transfer payments we get. Fine , we get transfer payments, so do alot of the provinces in Canada. The east did not get any large benefits from confederation. There was no large gain of land over the years. There has been a continuous out flow of people. Now we are looking at becoming a few provinces of mostly senior citizens.
I am proud to be Canadian. However I have alot of respect for people like Brian Tobin, Frank McKenna and Mr. Williams. These three have stood up to the federal goverment, each in their own way, to get something for their provinces. It seems, to me, that we are always being told what is better for us. It took us years to convince the feds to increase the fishing limit. Longer to enforce foreign fishing quotas.
What the east needs is to be treated fairly. Give us the same fighting chance that resource blessed Ontario, B.C., Alberta and Quebec were given. Perhaps , with tha, we can use the gas and oil reserves to build a better economy and lessen the need for transfers.
I am proud to be Canadian. However I have alot of respect for people like Brian Tobin, Frank McKenna and Mr. Williams. These three have stood up to the federal goverment, each in their own way, to get something for their provinces. It seems, to me, that we are always being told what is better for us. It took us years to convince the feds to increase the fishing limit. Longer to enforce foreign fishing quotas.
What the east needs is to be treated fairly. Give us the same fighting chance that resource blessed Ontario, B.C., Alberta and Quebec were given. Perhaps , with tha, we can use the gas and oil reserves to build a better economy and lessen the need for transfers.
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I know that Danny's still pis*ed because Newfoundland sold Churchill falls power for a song to Quebec with a 99 year contract. This transfers $1,000,000,000 to Quebec each year as they sell it at a massive profit to the US. One should be very wary of any politician making a business decision.
Be afraid of anyone with a 'vision'. If it were so great it would be a done deal already, but it probably isn't that great so the public has to pony up the money. The proposal in Winnipeg is for a new stadium for the Blue Bombers. Quite laudable, but it will cost my family $1,000 up front. Remember the vision that produced Skydome and the Big 'O'??? But I digress....
Danny wants Newfoundlanders to be able to make more per year than AB and ON (per capita) and STILL receive welfare??? WTF?!? What is the colour or the air on his planet?
Be afraid of anyone with a 'vision'. If it were so great it would be a done deal already, but it probably isn't that great so the public has to pony up the money. The proposal in Winnipeg is for a new stadium for the Blue Bombers. Quite laudable, but it will cost my family $1,000 up front. Remember the vision that produced Skydome and the Big 'O'??? But I digress....
Danny wants Newfoundlanders to be able to make more per year than AB and ON (per capita) and STILL receive welfare??? WTF?!? What is the colour or the air on his planet?
- Reaction score
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Let me try and quickly explain a couple of things.
There appears to be some spin originating from the PMO that Newfoundaldj is attempting to double dip- sucking on the oil and transfer payment teats at the same time. We just want the same arrangement Alberta has with its oil resources. Currently, for every dollar gained in offshore, we lose 70 cents to the feds. The remaining 30 cents get calculated into the transfer equation. So the more we make in oil, the more goes to Ottawa, and the more we get deducted from transfer. Essentially we are leashed indefinitely on how much we can make. The current Atlantic Accord already states that NL be made the principle beneficiary of offshore, but alas this is not the case.
What we are proposing is we retain 100% our offshore. Period. It is assumed that once the current proposed deal is signed, Newfoundland will immediately become a have province. This is definitely not the case. Even with 50 dollar a barrel oil revenue, we are forcasted to be a "have not" for at least a decade. After we climb up to athe five province standard it would be our pleasure to contribute as per Ontario and Alberta. Don't handicap our economic recovery.
On another thread on this site dealing with the same issue, an individual questioned what if anything we had planned for our money. I have never heard a more condescending comment before. Its exactly that attitude that we Newfoundlanders are protesting against. Imagine the arrogance it takes to make a statement like that, and to govern based on that principle.
I don't agree with taking down the flag. My father wore the flag for 30 years, and next month I will as well. However, I would agree with placing a flag pole somewhere.
There appears to be some spin originating from the PMO that Newfoundaldj is attempting to double dip- sucking on the oil and transfer payment teats at the same time. We just want the same arrangement Alberta has with its oil resources. Currently, for every dollar gained in offshore, we lose 70 cents to the feds. The remaining 30 cents get calculated into the transfer equation. So the more we make in oil, the more goes to Ottawa, and the more we get deducted from transfer. Essentially we are leashed indefinitely on how much we can make. The current Atlantic Accord already states that NL be made the principle beneficiary of offshore, but alas this is not the case.
What we are proposing is we retain 100% our offshore. Period. It is assumed that once the current proposed deal is signed, Newfoundland will immediately become a have province. This is definitely not the case. Even with 50 dollar a barrel oil revenue, we are forcasted to be a "have not" for at least a decade. After we climb up to athe five province standard it would be our pleasure to contribute as per Ontario and Alberta. Don't handicap our economic recovery.
On another thread on this site dealing with the same issue, an individual questioned what if anything we had planned for our money. I have never heard a more condescending comment before. Its exactly that attitude that we Newfoundlanders are protesting against. Imagine the arrogance it takes to make a statement like that, and to govern based on that principle.
I don't agree with taking down the flag. My father wore the flag for 30 years, and next month I will as well. However, I would agree with placing a flag pole somewhere.
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Bograt..You hit the nail on the head. Could not agree more! 
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Now I have to admit I would like to see "crunched" numbers to show how it would take 10 years for Newfoundland to become a "have" province with the oil revenues the way they are.
EDIT:it didn't read right, I mean if Nfld got all the revenue, why 10 years?
...and I really don't care who's right or wrong when I say play with something else and not our flag.
EDIT:it didn't read right, I mean if Nfld got all the revenue, why 10 years?
...and I really don't care who's right or wrong when I say play with something else and not our flag.
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Unfortunately I do not have the numbers. I'm sure a call to the premiers office in January would be able show the number he is working with. I can say that we are now wrestling with a 4 billion dollar deficit. Almsot half the provincial budget goes to servicing the debt. We have a population of 450,000 thousand- something like 23K in provincial debt for every man woman and child.
Do you want to talk roads and infastructure? Do you want to talk access to health care? Do you want to talk Churchill Falls? Do you want to talk education? We are Ireland in the 1950's.
Do you want to talk roads and infastructure? Do you want to talk access to health care? Do you want to talk Churchill Falls? Do you want to talk education? We are Ireland in the 1950's.
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