Canadian Forces underfunded

[King]

Good point Enfield. I‘d like someone to ask Eggleton to justify why he keeps saying the CF is more combat efficient today then it was 10 years ago.

As far as friends go, they don‘t mind. Although my friends are a collection of some strange characters and some of them are from my days in cadets. I did have a conversation with my roommate (who‘s dad is actually an air force LCol.)
where he asked me, since he knew I was joining the militia, if the situation with terrorism blew into WWIII would I drop everything and go. I think I gave a simple yes and then he preceded to explain to me why he couldn‘t ever go because he has responsabilities to get an education first.

 

[brad_dennis]

Disturbance;

I have had friends with that same disposition.

Lets say your friend‘s neighbor suddenly decided that he liked your friend‘s house and wanted it for his own. So he came over put a gun to your friends head and said, "Ok, this is now my house. Every thing that you ever owned and worked for, you will now have to give to me. You will move only the possessions that you can carry in one trip, into the garage where you will now live, for which you will pay me rent. You will not be allowed out, only to work and your paycheque will come to me, for which I will use to provide you with food and water. Oh and by the way, your sister will now be my girlfriend."

Hypothetically we have to assume two things 1) There is no police 2) You have a gun.

Tell your friend he has two choices, he can either continue to live in the garage, or he can ask for help from you. If he replies in the latter, then he has just answered the question as to why Canada and other democratic nations need a military and why one would want to go into the military.

Explain to your friend that good or bad, all you can do is to want to do the best job possible and be proud that you are. It‘s a job like anything else. The only real difference between the military and most other jobs is the fact that you could be called upon and put in a situation that you have to take another person‘s life with whom you have no personal grudge against. (except for the fact that he is shooting at you). Some people can‘t be soldiers, it‘s not in their nature, but they should understand that, since the dawn of time, there has always been and always will continue to be a need for peacemakers.

B.

 

[Infanteer]

King said:

At any rate, I agree that Canada could never truely defend herself

By the end of World War II Canada, a Nation of 13 million people, had an Army of over 500,000 soldiers. The RCN and the RCAF, boasting strengths of over 100,000, were among the strongest in the world. Prior to American entry into the War in late 1941, Canada was considered the "Arsenal of Democracy."
We could easily put forth the resources to adequetly defend this country if we (that is John Q. Public) decided it was important (!!!). However, see my post on the psychological rut and the Lazy Power concept.

 

[Yard Ape]

Eggleton produces open letter defending government & military, hitting critics
JOHN WARD
Canadian Press
October 1, 2001

OTTAWA (CP) - Defence Minister Art Eggleton has traded the sword for the pen, producing an open letter defending government policy on the military and accusing critics of living in the past. The federal government has been sharply criticized in recent days for leaving the cash-strapped Canadian Forces unprepared to tackle a global war on terrorism.

"The low level of collective training, the unsatisfactory state of some weapons and equipment and the lack of logistics support would make engagement in combat operations problematic without resolving those shortfalls." the report said.

"I just want to deal with the issues that came out of the CDA report," the minister said Monday. "I think we have to understand it in context."

In the opinion piece, Eggleton said: "I have been somewhat troubled by what I have read and heard. A good portion of the discourse in Canada appears to be rooted in ‘old-think‘. And history has shown repeatedly that one of the most serious errors a military can make is to prepare for the last war."

If it does involve military action, he said, Canada can help.

"While the Canadian Forces‘ combat capabilities have been much criticized in recent days, this criticism has lacked balance."

He said the government has a national counter-terrorism plan and the Forces have a highly trained counter-terrorism unit called JTF2.

"We also have effective intelligence capabilities," Eggleton said.

The government has put $3 billion into defence in recent years, he said, but more money may be hard to find.

He added, though, that the government is prepared to fight terrorism:

Leon Benoit, the Canadian Alliance defence critic, wasn‘t impressed by Eggleton‘s pledge to defend Canadians.

 

[King]

Infanteer,

Canada has the resources to defend herself, so yeah we COULD do it. TO be able to physically defend our huge nation we would need something quite massive compared to what we have now and it would cost a lot of money (and we‘d have to find the people). Considering the nature of politics (especially in this country) and the threats we actually face, it‘ll never happen. Not unless a dramatic change occurs (not the kind of change that‘s happened recently).

Anyway, I came across a good article in today‘s Toronto Star about the militia and I‘ve never seen anything like this about the reserves in a major daily before...

http://www.torontostar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1001935649388&call_page=TS_News&call_pageid=968332188492&call_pagepath=News/N ews

 

[Yard Ape]

Military well-equipped, Eggleton insists
By JEFF GRAY
Globe and Mail Update
Thursday, October 04

Defence Minister Art Eggleton said accusations from a Canadian Alliance MP that Canada‘s military was "totally unprepared" to defend the country or help in the U.S.-led campaign against terrorism were "a bundle of distortions and exaggerations."

Appearing before the Commons defence committee, Mr. Eggleton faced intense questioning from opposition MPs about Canada‘s military readiness, beginning with Canadian Alliance MP Leon Benoit.

Mr. Benoit charged that Canada‘s military are "totally unprepared" for the challenges they face in the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, and that he was alarmed that the minister continued to use "spin" to say the Forces were battle ready.

The Alberta MP said a long list of experts — including former generals, historians, and a defence lobby group, the Auditor-General — have raised "serious questions" about military readiness.

"So my question is Mr. Minister, given the war we now face, isn‘t time you told your spin people to get away from this. . . . Isn‘t it time you start listening to these experts who really care about our military and understand the seriousness of the situation and work with them to help rebuild our Forces?" Mr. Benoit asked.

Mr. Eggleton responded forcefully.

"Well, Mr. Chairman, I don‘t know how the member can sit there with a straight face and say that. It‘s a bundle of distortions and exaggerations," Mr. Eggleton said.

The minister allowed that "not everything is what we would like it to be in the Canadian Forces," but said Mr. Benoit‘s criticism was "absolute nonsense" and "disgusting." He accused the Alliance MP of being "irresponsible" and wanting only to "play politics."

Other MPs on the committee echoed Mr. Benoit‘s concerns, but insisted they did not want to play politics with the military. Many critics have said recently that Canada‘s military capability had whithered after years of budget cuts.

The Conference of Defence Associations, a defence lobby group, said last week that the Forces‘ were unable to meet their basic commitments, and needed at least another $1-billion a year.

But Mr. Eggleton and his officials have maintained that the Forces are able to contribute in a meaningful way to the worldwide anti-terrorism campaign, as well as live up Canada‘s basic commitments.

In his opening remarks Thursday, Mr. Eggleton said the Canadian Forces were preparing for the threats of the future, such as biological, chemical or cyberterrorist attacks. And he emphasized that the Forces‘ future lay in "niche capabilities," being able to respond to threats in various places around the world, co-operating a sharing intelligence with allies.

He said the government had reinvested $3-billion over the past three years in the military, and that equipment was being upgraded.

And Mr. Eggleton told the committee that Canada‘s military acted quickly on Sept. 11, he said, going onto high alert. Extra CF-18s were put into the North American air defence system, and three ships were put on standby to deliver any humanitarian aid that was required.

The military also helped care for the thousands of stranded airline passengers who ended up in Canada when flight to the United States were diverted here. And Canadian emergency officials acted quickly to communicate with their U.S. counterparts, he added.

"These examples demonstrate the excellent work of the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces and it shows that when asked, they were ready," Mr. Eggleton said.

 

[the patriot]

How hard would it be to put the Reserves on operational standby?! Our forces are depleted yadda, yadda...... Suck it up, be a man and spill some blood!!!! Reserve soldiers are already on deployment in Europe. Close to 20% of our forces in Europe are Canadian Armed Forces Reservists.
Just go down the Order of Battle and activate some Reserve regiments to the Regular Force Order of Battle or do a Reg Force call-out to the Reserves.

-the patriot-

 

[Disturbance]

I would be down for that.

 

[RCA]

Yes, let’s just push a few buttons ( or actual sign an order) and put a few reserve units on operational stand-by. What does that mean? Like Op Abacus- you only get paid if you’re called. Or does that mean you terms of service become unlimited liability whereby you are called up and all your civvy obligations are put by the wayside? Does that mean upon standdown (whenever that might be), the gov‘t and DND will sort out job protection and compensation at that time or as usual let the reservist sort it out himself.

And to what purpose to call out the reserves, to take over peacekeeping in Bosnia, or as augmentation to the Reg F, or to have sit around just in case. And who you going to call out-those in the east, west or central. Or those areas with highest unemployment because they can afford to have people pulled from their area. And if we are going to call out units, which ones. The infantry or engineers, the comms guys or the medics. And which units. Those with the greatest strength (probably mostly QL3s) or those with the greater number of QL4s. Who gets to decide.

And be careful on your call for this country to spill the blood of its soldiers to show it has balls. I am one of those you are potentially speaking about, and when I put my nuts on the line I want it to be the right reasons, not because some civvies think it is the macho thing to do.

At a time like this, I prefer those for clear rational thinking to be in charge, and no matter what people say, that seems to be what the gov’t is doing. Admittedly they could probably do more, but I know before they commit us, they would have considered every angle. That is the most I could ask from them. I am taking about the here and now, not the past.

 

[Yard Ape]

With talk of sending troops to replace US units deployed to Bosnia, the minister should reconsider his critisism of supporters of conventional forces. Conventional forces are the one that do the peacekeeping and enforcing. If the Army‘s contribution to current and future conflicts is to be replacing US troops peacekeeping roles then we need to increase our conventional forces. "Force rationalization" is just another term for making conventional forces smaller. We should be looking to increase our capabilities within the current size of the army . . . not looking at how much we can reduce our Army and still maintain the capabilities required in the past.

Don‘t get me wrong, I also support increased SF capabilities. But I disagree with the hacking away at the conventional force.

Yard Ape