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Canada‘s War Effort--at least what it should be

R

radik_man

Guest
I wonder what the Canadian contribution to the War Effort on counter-terrorism. I hope to hell its more than the measly contributions I have witnessed in the past. Bush said Britain a "truer Friend". Ahem, Aren‘t you Canucks supposed to be our closest ally? Try and get your Liberal Bleeding heart govt to grow a pair of cohones and get into the game....seriously this time... I‘m tired of hearing such liberal verbal crap from your political leaders. This is a chance for Canada to claim and "show" how much of an ally...with balls....they really are. Are yall game??? :mg:
 
And why are you telling this to us...go phone my local MP if you have issues with Canadian defense policy.
 
Bush, Chrétien work out details of terrorism fight
Monday, September 24, 1:00 PM EDT
By ALLISON DUNFIELD
Globe and Mail Update (With reports from Canadian Press)


U.S. President George W. Bush and Prime Minister Jean Chrétien emerged briefly from a meeting in Washington on Monday to say they were discussing ways to work together to curb terrorism, including Canada‘s assistance in protecting the Canada/U.S. border.

Mr. Bush also praised Canada‘s efforts to assist Americans after the attacks but did not apologize for failing to mention Canada during an address to Congress last week in which he listed a number of countries that were backing the United States — saying he didn‘t think it was necessary.

"I didn‘t necessarily think it was important to praise a brother — after all, we‘re talking about family.

"There should be no doubt in anybody‘s mind about how honoured we are to have the support of the Canadians and how strong the Canadian Prime Minister has been — not only his condolences but his offer of support for the American people.

Mr. Bush‘s speech on Thursday evening to a joint session of Congress left many Canadians perturbed that Canada was not among the countries mentioned. While Mr. Chrétien brushed off what some perceived as a snub last week, opposition parties said the snub means Canada is not registering on the U.S. radar.

Progressive conservative Leader Joe Clark said Canada should offer everything it can, including communications expertise, a specialty of the Canadian Forces.

Since Monday‘s meeting between the two leaders was set, there has been much speculation over what Mr. Bush will ask of Canada in his fight against terrorism.

Mr. Chrétien is expected to offer a wide range of military options, from the deployment of a full Canadian brigade to the taking on of a larger peacekeeping role in the former Yugoslavia, which would free U.S. soldiers for other duties.

He is also expected to offer assurances of heightened security at the border.

Defence Minister Art Eggleton said Friday that sending ground troops is a possibility.

On Sunday, Mr. Eggleton said that Canada expects to play a meaningful role, but must consider its resources before making a commitment.

"It‘s dependent on what is needed and this has our highest priority," he told CBC Newsworld. "Obviously we may have to rework how some of our forces currently are deployed, but we don‘t know at this point in time."

The United States is also expected to ask Canada to begin high-level talks aimed at co-ordinating immigrant and refugee policies on a continental level. However, Mr. Chrétien has said Canada does not want to compromise on core values, such as the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and key elements of Canada‘s refugee-determination system.

The two leaders were to meet for lunch at the White House with the two countries respective ambassadors before holding a formal press conference at 2 p.m. EDT.
 
I hate to sound like a complete moron but what can my MP accomplish?? I just would like to know becasue I have thought about contacting mine


JH
 
Your MP can voice your concerns in parliment and his/her party‘s caucus. If you have a good argument, or several other constituents contact your MP with the same concers it should be reflected in what the MP recommends to the party.
 
This was posted over at specialoperations.com, so I can‘t take credit for finding it.
Canada‘s war is already over
Manley‘s promise of ground troops is less manly than it sounds


Mark Steyn
National Post

Last Friday, while Canadians were demanding to know why they didn‘t rate a name-check in President Bush‘s speech, a unit of Britain‘s special forces, the SAS, came under enemy attack deep inside Afghanistan.

There‘s the answer.

If affronted Canucks would step back a moment, they‘d see that the unusual feature of the Presidential address was that it was almost wholly free of the polite fictions of the foreign policy establishment. There was no mention of a "global coalition" or the United Nations, or, in military terms, of the French or Italians. In the Gulf War, the grand coalition‘s principal contribution was to tie one hand behind America‘s back. In Somalia, the Italians were giving nods and winks to the local warlord, General Aideed. In the Kosovo war, at least one French officer at NATO passed advance operational information on to the Serbs.

The difference is that, in those conflicts, the U.S. military was engaged in saving far distant Muslims -- Kuwaiti Muslims, Bosnian Muslims, Somali Muslims, Albanian Muslims (as should be obvious but sadly isn‘t, the U.S. armed forces are the world‘s pre-eminent defender of Muslims) -- and it was felt politic to observe the pretense that the ideal expeditionary force should look like a global affirmative-action program. This time, however, Boston and St. Louis, Miami and Denver are at stake, and the Bush administration sees no reason to mortgage their future to any country that thinks de-mothballing a rusting frigate entitles it to a set of keys to the command module.

The word from both countries is that this "coalition," on the battlefield, will be an Anglo-American affair: The U.S. is not interested in letting anybody else into the inner sanctums of joint command. The minimum entry qualifications are that a) you have a professional, modern military and b) you share America‘s war aims. The French meet the former but not the latter. The Mexicans the latter but not the former. The British meet both. The Canadians meet neither.

This is a simple truth, and we should be mature enough to acknowledge it. When Mr. Chrétien says that Canada will stand "shoulder to shoulder" with the Americans, he is, in fact, describing exactly where we won‘t be standing. "Shoulder to shoulder" is a military expression, for comrades in arms marching forward on the field of battle. The Prime Minister is happy to deploy the term metaphorically, but that‘s it. Just over a week ago, when I mentioned the pitiful state of our forces, I received a lot of indignant e-mails from Canadians insisting that they were ready to enlist. I don‘t doubt you. But, if you did enlist, they‘d have no uniforms to give you, no weapons except for Papa Jean‘s spare set of clubs from Royal Montreal, and no means of getting you to the battlefield except a commandeered school bus. Of the 13 NATO air forces flying missions over Kosovo, ours were the only planes without anti-jam radios, forcing all the others to downgrade their communications to the Canadian level and use a jammable single frequency. Up against a far more ruthless foe than Slobo, U.S. Defence Secretary Don Rumsfeld is not going to increase the risk to his pilots for the privilege of having a couple of maple tail fins up there.

If Canada applied to participate in joint military operations, it would be turned down -- which is why John Manley‘s belated promise of ground troops is less manly than it sounds. He knows full well they won‘t be required. His generous offer is as laughable as me offering to play in the Wimbledon men‘s final. The reality is that what‘s left of Canada‘s forces is too poorly equipped to share a battlefield with the Americans, the British, the Australians or any reasonably funded army. Even New Zealand, which isn‘t exactly a famous military power, is in a position to make a more useful contribution through its SAS, the kind of elite special forces that will be especially prized in this most modern of wars. Canada‘s equivalent, the secrecy-shrouded JTF2, have no international reputation except as an ill-disciplined rabble. Intelligence? CSIS is underfunded and politically irrelevant: When they report that 50 global terrorist groups are actively operating in Canada, the Prime Minister files it in the bottom drawer under his golf club bill-of-sale napkins and, if anyone brings it up, flatly denies its conclusions. Canada is the only G7 country whose government is involved in covert sabotage of its own intelligence gathering.

Yet, confronted with an obvious truth, we persist in hunting for ludicrous alternatives. Is it that Bush personally dislikes Chrétien? You can‘t blame the guy. In his speeches, our Prime Minister has a half-dozen jokes about what a dummy Dubya is: "I explained to him that Alberta is in Canada," etc. In person, he‘s boorishly patronizing: Chrétien welcoming Bush to the Summit of the Americas in Quebec: "Bienvenue." Bush: "Thank you, sir." Chrétien: "That means welcome."

But, believe it or not, when you‘ve got a mound of 10,000 corpses, getting in a dig at some irrelevant old coot is not what‘s on your mind. There‘s a reason why Tony Blair was the foreign leader in town for the day of the big speech, and not Chirac (who dropped by the day before) or Chrétien. Had Chrétien been sitting next to the First Lady and Bush had singled him out for the same lavish praise as Blair, it would have communicated not strength but weakness, not resolve but fundamental unseriousness, as though this was just another Clintonian marshmallow campaign.

It‘s not. That‘s why Canada‘s war is already over. It ended when all those diverted planes took off from Gander and Halifax and Calgary, and their stranded passengers bid farewell to the many kind and generous Canadians who‘d helped make those involuntary layovers as comfortable as possible. In Washington today, President Bush, who is always polite, will thank Mr. Chrétien for Canada‘s assistance that terrible morning, and may even venture something Colin Powellish about the non-service of remembrance on Parliament Hill. But what else can he say? As Francie Ducros said, speaking for the Prime Minister, America‘s friendship with Canada is so deep it "goes without saying." In that case, Bush is happy to go on not saying it for a long time. A friend who dozes in a hammock on the front porch and gives a sympathetic wave as his neighbour‘s being mugged is of limited value.

One can regret this, but really, why bother? The 55% of the population who support the Liberal Party evidently believes it‘s more important for the state to invest in the Auberge Grand-Mère than in the defence of the realm. Those of us who disagree must respect the democratic will. Canada, after all, believes that it can best project itself as (in Lloyd Axworthy‘s exquisite banality) a "soft power." He may be right -- as long as Osama bin Laden‘s boys can tell the difference between Minneapolis and Edmonton.

But since September 11th it‘s hard power that‘s needed. This will be a long and difficult campaign, and, if Canada can‘t make a contribution, it could at least quit whining about why its non-contribution isn‘t getting enough respect. As of today, the British already have SAS units and MI6 agents inside Afghanistan, plus 20,000 troops in Oman, and a Royal Navy task force, including a nuclear sub, steaming through the Red Sea. On Thursday, the President, mourning the loss of thousands of his fellow citizens, gave a sober businesslike outline of his response to the massacre. If we can no longer fight, we could at least have the good taste not to go, "But enough about world war. Let‘s talk about me."
 
Enfield,
I think I‘ll join you on the British Army recruiting page...how‘s the Para‘s sound to you....
 
You could not have said it better enfield!
Atleast I‘ll be able to tell my grandchildren that grandpa fought the snow and ice in "98".
Wish Ross Pero (spelling not sure) would win the PM title, french will vote him in for sure, french sounding last name and funny accent.
I have alot of friends in the U.S army and they feel our pain how we as troops are treated,
but I‘ll say this to all in the Cdn army, alot of them say we are tough bastards and we would run circles around them all night if we had what they had! and thats the truth. (plenty of storys just ask)

:evil:
 
PM concedes likely chance of Aust casualties in terrorism campaign
Austrailian Brodcasting Corporation
05 Oct 01

The Prime Minister, John Howard, says Australia must prepare for the possibility of casualties in the military campaign against terrorism.

Australia has committed about 150 SAS troops and refuelling aircraft to the US-led coalition.

Long-range surveillance aircraft and a Navy command vessel may also be provided if necessary.

Mr Howard has told Southern Cross radio casualties cannot be ruled out.

"We were very fortunate in East Timor we didn‘t have battle casualties but it could well be different in this case, I don‘t know.

"I must honestly say...there is a possibility of casualties once things start and once our men are involved," Mr Howard said.

The Defence Minister, Peter Reith, says Australia‘s commitment to the campaign against terrorism will not reduce the strength of domestic counter terrorism forces.

Mr Reith says the commitment will not leave Australia exposed to terrorist attacks.

"We have obviously given very close consideration to our force structure at home and our ability to deal with various scenarios," Mr Reith said.

"We‘ve taken this decision in terms of availability on the basis of our expert military advice that we have all the capability we need at home."

Senior officials in the US State Department and the Pentagon have hailed Australia‘s military commitment to the American-led campaign against terrorism.

The officials have declared the United States has no more steadfast an ally than Australia.

Praising Prime Minister John Howard‘s announcement that an SAS squadron to refuelling planes and potentially other military resources would be made available for use in an American-led campaign, State Department spokesman, Richard Boucher, says the pledge reflects Australia‘s deep commitment to liberty and democracy.

"The United States has no more steadfast ally than Australia," Mr Boucher said.

At the Pentagon, spokesman Craig Quigley also welcomed Australia‘s willingness to assist US operations, saying not all countries could be so open.

"A lot of the other countries are simply not in a position politically for their own internal reasons to acknowledge the support that they have offered the United States and other countries in the world," Mr Quigley said.
 
Wow, the US seems to have a new best friend every other day. Kinda like school when your best friend was the kid that brought the most lunch money that day! While they may be just stroking egos, I think they‘re purposely sending a message to the little guy, Cretin. "Treat our prez like a dumb hick, you"ll get it back in spades, you pompous, arrogant prig." We‘ve been left out and delegated to third world political status within the coalition because of the condesending attitude of this self appointed Caesar. Or should I say Nero, who is fiddling while the country burns, politicly. Ol Mumbles spends his halcion days in parliment attacking and belittling the opposition, giving double speak, irrelevant answers to hard questions that the citizens want answered. Big deal, he struck a commitee of liberal, arse kissing PMO pers, to report back to HIM, not us. He‘s doing his damndest to stay out of this. Hiding under his blanket thinking it‘s a bad dream. He won‘t allow the CBC or the press to report on the Canadian loss at WTC, in either name or number, for fear it will arouse patriotic feelings and a sense of outrage within the country who will demand action from an impotent leadership. By all means, contact you MP. Demand action. It is your right, nay your duty! Just don‘t expect much action if he is one of the neutered liberal caucus, afraid to talk to the Great Wizard. Then on the other hand, if he‘s opposition he‘ll only be laughed at and belittled in the House by a liberal mouthpiece, who will attack Stockwell Day or Joe Clark and end up not answering the question anyway. Somehow we lost control, we have to hold our leaders (loose term) accountable. They work for us, for our benefit, not us for their‘s. Gotta stop now, it‘s too early to ruin a Saturday. There‘s a parade on the main street of Canada with people saying "Look Ma, the Emporer isn‘t wearing any clothes!!"
 
According to Bush, today:

"We are joined in this operation by our staunch friend, Great Britain. Other close friends, including Canada, Australia, Germany and France, have pledged forces as the operation unfolds," Bush said.

I wonder what that will mean in specific terms...
 
Probably not much from Canada. They may want to blood the JTF2, making them a legitimate player on the world stage from now on. Chances are though, we‘ll be manning some NATO AWACS planes, maybe some CF-18 sorties. Once things get rolling the Jimmies will probably get involved somehow. I don‘t see much for our conventional forces in the short term for the actual mission. We‘ll probably have to pick up the US and Brit NATO and UN stuff. Like being brought up from the minors to bat utility.
:tank:
 
Brought up from the minors?
Sounds somehow bad to say, but at least it offers a degree of job security and maybe a bit more "hands-on" albeit limited experience, for potential fng‘s like myself as opposed to 2 months ago.
B.
 
Globe and Mail
Will Canada send soldiers to free U.S. peacekeepers?

By JEFF SALLOT

Thursday, October 4, 2001 – Page A4

OTTAWA -- Canada‘s Defence Minister says the government is considering a suggestion from U.S. Ambassador Paul Cellucci that Canada send soldiers to relieve U.S. peacekeepers engaged in a relatively stable mission in the Balkans.

That would free up crack U.S. fighting units for dangerous operations in Afghanistan.

But some military analysts say to do so would strain the Canadian forces. Canada was forced to pull its force of about 1,000 out of Kosovo last year because the army was overextended.

Recruiting in this country has not kept up with retirements and other departures, and increasingly, reservists are used to fill out the Canadian contingent in Bosnia.

The analysts say the only way the Canadian Forces could pick up the slack for the United States in Bosnia is to extend tours of duty to 12 months from six.

Unlike British and French allies, who are moving fighting units, fighter planes and warships to the anticipated theatre of operations near Afghanistan, Canada has not been asked for such support.

Defence Minister Art Eggleton said the Americans know Canadian "niche capabilities" and have not asked for anything more than what was requested in the days shortly after Sept. 11, when four hijacked passenger jets were crashed in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania, destroying the World Trade Center and a wing of the Pentagon.

At that time, Canada provided additional fighter planes to help with North American air defence. Mr. Eggleton would not say how many additional fighters have been assigned to this mission.

The Canadian Forces are also helping to analyze intelligence that has been pouring in, he said.

Mr. Eggleton has signed an order allowing the approximately 100 Canadians serving with other North Atlantic Treaty Organization units to participate in any antiterrorist strike. That would, for example, allow joint Canada-U.S. crews aboard AWACS surveillance craft to be part of any air operations against targets in Afghanistan.
**************************************************************************

I would think that now would be an opportune time to slash HRDC‘s budget and send some of the cash over to the military. How about making legislation to draft squeege kids (the ones that are 17 and over of course!!!!)?!

-the patriot- :cdn:
 
CBC Newsworld is reporting today that Eggleton has stated that we will supply appox 2000 mbrs including a navel task force (2 frigates and a destroyer plus support) and a air transport group. Also implied were parts of JTF2. The only thing missing is the CF18s. At least we will be in the game and be able to hold our heads up.

As for replacing the US in the Balkans, I hope that idea died a quick death. Peacekeeping is not our main function, this would double our already stretched resources, once their, Canada would be stuck until the mission ended, and lastly it would show the world that the CF area police force not a bona-fide military.

I know Patriot that the cutting of HR‘s budget and drafting squeegee kids was said "tongue in cheek", but before that ball gets rolling, are Canadians ready to cut single mothers welfare to put there sons and daughter‘s into the line of fire? And the money taking from HR would go where in the CF. More eqpt- that‘s a sinkhole and a multi-year process anyway. A raise-not what’s required for this situation.
Recruiting-Already sunk $5 million for negligible results. If we were to get an influx of recruits, it would have happened on 12 Sept.

As to drafting the unwilling, that’s just who I would want protecting my back. Thanks, but no thanks.
 
here‘s an article about what the MND said today:

http://www2.alberta.com/news/fs.cfm?source_id=CP&id=1008907
 
Canada sends third of fleet
Biggest force since Korea: Contingent includes 2,000 troops, 6 ships and 6 aircraft
Sheldon Alberts
National Post
09 Oct 01

OTTAWA - Canada will send its largest combat force since the Korean War to join the U.S.-led military coalition against Afghanistan‘s Taleban regime.

In what the military is calling Operation Apollo, more than 2,000 Canadians, including special forces commandos, will be heading to the Persian Gulf where the multi-national coalition forces are gathering. The Canadian contribution will include six warships -- almost one third of the front-line fleet -- and six aircraft, but not CF-18 fighters.

Art Eggleton, the Minister of National Defence, insisted Canada is not technically at war, but military officials said the army is prepared if necessary to send ground troops to join any possible invasion of Afghanistan.

"We are not using the word ‘war.‘ I don‘t use it because it conjures up an image of a very conventional war and I don‘t expect that much of this will be a conventional war," he said. "Maybe some aspects of it will. We certainly have military action going on right now. But at the end of the day it is going to take a combination of efforts in many different fields of endeavour to suppress terrorism."

Even with yesterday‘s military commitment, Jean Chrétien, the Prime Minister, will face a new request today for more troops and equipment.

George Robertson, NATO‘s Secretary-General, will ask him at a meeting here this morning to supply troops to "backfill" for American soldiers expected to leave the Balkans for the Persian Gulf.

Canada‘s navy is carrying the bulk of the burden of yesterday‘s commitment, with more than 1,200 sailors expected to leave for the Persian Gulf within days from the ports of Halifax and Vancouver.

The frigate HMCS Vancouver will join an American aircraft carrier battle group, while HMCS Halifax is being sent immediately to the Persian Gulf. Another three ships -- the frigate HMCS Charlottetown, the destroyer HMCS Iroquois and the supply ship HMCS Preserver -- are also being sent to the Persian Gulf at the request of the United States. Another frigate will replace the Halifax with a NATO fleet in the Mediterranean.

General Ray Hénault, the Chief of Defence Staff, said the Canadian navy would perform "traditional naval tasks of supporting direct action in the region; that is providing force protection, surveillance and naval activities required to support and escort the naval battle groups."

None of Canada‘s CF-18 fighter-bombers, which were used extensively in 1999 during NATO‘s air campaign over Kosovo, have been requested because they are not equipped for launch from aircraft carriers, he said.

Gen. Hénault would not detail, for security reasons, what role the elite Joint Task Force 2 counter-terrorism unit will play, but denied any of the commandos are involved in special operations in Afghanistan.

Canada‘s decision to join Operation Enduring Freedom is expected to put new strains on Canada‘s military, which critics say was severely weakened by government cutbacks during the mid-1990s.

The new deployment will almost double the 2,157 Canadian troops already serving overseas in NATO and United Nations missions.

Lord Robertson said Canada may be required to offer additional military aid to NATO forces in Kosovo and Bosnia-Hercegovina. Canada already has 1,653 personnel involved in the NATO stabilization force in Bosnia.

"We will discuss that," Lord Robertson said last night. "Because one of the things that the Americans asked for last week was backfilling if they had to take troops or equipment out of the Balkan operations for the campaign against terrorism.

"I‘ve got indications that the Canadians would be willing to do that if they were asked to do it."

It is expected to take at least a week before the first Canadian military personnel among the 2,000 committed yesterday arrive in the Persian Gulf, meaning their active service will not begin before parliamentarians formally debate Canada‘s role next Monday.

"The Canadian Forces will become an integral part of the overall international campaign," Mr. Eggleton said.

Neither he nor Gen. Hénault could provide an estimate of the costs or potential duration of Canada‘s commitment.

"The operation is going to be a long military and diplomatic and political operation, one in which there is no clear end date," said Gen. Hénault. "We can‘t really predict for you how long the operations are going to last. We do know that we will contribute to them as long as it is required."

The United States has not yet asked Canada to provide infantry troops for a potential land invasion in Afghanistan, but Gen. Hénault signalled the army is drafting contingency plans to accommodate a future request for land troops.

"We do know there is a full range of military activity that will be undertaken at various stages of the campaign, so therefore we are preparing contingency plans for contributions in the land sense as well in the naval and air sense," he said. "But we have no clear indications of what that might be in the long term, and all of it is currently very hypothetical."

Canada‘s air force is sending three Hercules air transport planes from CFB Trenton, an Airbus long-range transport jet and two Aurora patrol aircraft to aid in humanitarian drops and airlift support. Gen. Hénault said he was unsure where the Hercules planes would be based or when they would leave Canada.

Despite widespread fear in the United States that Muslim extremists will launch another round of terrorist attacks now air strikes have begun against the Taleban, Mr. Eggleton tried to put Canadians at ease.

"There is no indication of an imminent threat to Canada. Most of what we have heard from various terrorist organizations and Osama bin Laden has been directed at the United States," he said, adding that RCMP and armed forces remain on high alert in Canada. "Certainly with our increased involvement in this coalition effort, one can never take that for granted."

Stockwell Day, the official Opposition leader, said in an interview that Canada‘s commitment sounded reasonable but added the Canadian Alliance would press for increased defence spending so it could be sustained.

"I think the general assessment in any type of conflict is to do as much as you can with as little loss as possible," he said. "This sounds like a reasonable deployment and I‘m sure the military will advise if they are able to do more."

Mr. Day has asked to be sworn in as member of the Privy Council so he can receive confidential briefings from Mr. Chrétien about Canada‘s military actions. Joe Clark, the Tory leader, is already a privy councillor and has requested private briefings from Mr. Chrétien on why some military operations must remain confidential from Canadians.
 
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