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Army Technology.com indicating Canada has ordered Javelin ATGM????

I was under the impressino that we had the javelin for quite a while, maby this is just increasing the arsenal.
 
Perhaps you are confusing the British Javelin Surface to Air Missile which we operate with the American Javelin Anti-Tank Missile which we have trialled.
 
Kirkhill said:
Perhaps you are confusing the British Javelin Surface to Air Missile which we operate with the American Javelin Anti-Tank Missile which we have trialled.

So is that a "yes" or a "no"?  

I certainly find it strange that the manufacturer would list such specific numbers if an order hadn't been placed.



Matthew.    ???
 
Don't know on your point Blackshirt, sorry.

I do know that about a year ago the US issued a standard form saying that they authorized sales of Javelins to Canada in those kinds of amounts, but that didn't mean that Canada had bought them just that Canada could by them.

It seems to me that Ammotech 90 said that it was trialled against the Spike and did well but that no final decision had been made.

I was just trying to sort out what seemed to be confusion on forestedwarriors part.

Cheers.
 
Is this a replacement for the Carl G, or is it to be used for tank hunting?
 
Sorry Kirkhill,

Seems I had a wee bit of a brainfart on that last post.   I meant to simply reply instead of quoting.   :-[

....but based on your responses, the short version is we're authorized to buy that number but still haven't signed anything?

Correct?

Thanks again,



Matthew.   ;D
 
Not to my knowledge. 


Anybody else know anything different?
 
The ALAAWS Trial is still ongoing.  No procurement decision has been made, although I have been told by credible sources that Javelin has the edge over Gil for a variety of performance and procurement-related reasons.  There won't be a final decision leading to procurement for quite some time yet.  Once the trials selection is made (possibly in 05), the procurement process will take at least several more years to wind its way through Treasury Board approval and the molasses-like machinations of federal government contracting.  ALAAWS is definitely coming, but it won't be for a while yet...... 
 
It's not the surface-to-air missile Javelin - the Army's planning on scaling back or phasing out that weapons system entirely. Air Defence is probably going all ADATS. Besides, 200 launchers would be far too many for our present requirements...
 
If we acquire javelin, then I see it being the primary anti-tank dismounted Wpn
-fire and forget (operator ducks after launch)
-very fast time of flight (important)
-top attack missile

Now if the CF would only speed it up and get them because i want to fire one !!!
 
Mark C said:
The ALAAWS Trial is still ongoing.   No procurement decision has been made, although I have been told by credible sources that Javelin has the edge over Gil for a variety of performance and procurement-related reasons.   There won't be a final decision leading to procurement for quite some time yet.   Once the trials selection is made (possibly in 05), the procurement process will take at least several more years to wind its way through Treasury Board approval and the molasses-like machinations of federal government contracting.   ALAAWS is definitely coming, but it won't be for a while yet......  

Mark is quite right on this one.  The major obstacle is the procurement details.  I was at a dinner party last saturday night and another one of the guests attending is with Public Works and Services at the Canadian Embassy here in DC and is specifically working on defence acquisitions.  This person told me that right now, there are a lot of hurdles in terms of coming to a meeting place between the requirements set forth by US Foreign Military Sales and Public Works in terms of Canadian content and development of the Javelin.  The US wants the system sold pretty much off the shelf, whereas Canada wants a certain portion of the system developed and manufactured in Canada.  Until the red tape is ironed out, the Javelin cannot be purchased.

Gotta love bureaucracy... ::)
 
See this post for a bit more info...

http://army.ca/forums/threads/18443/post-94972.html#msg94972
 
Man a replacement for the Carl G would be great... since the Carl G is pretty much totally useless nowadays against 90% of the tanks on todays battlefield. Unless somehow your a godlike shot, and hit a tank coming up hill.... facing you... and it hasnt noticed you for some reason .... because its thermal and infra red are disabled... just because... and the drver is drunk and not paying attention... then maybe you could succeed  ;D :salute: :cdn:
 
JMackenzie,

You need to broaden your horizons and gain a bit more experience before spouting off about the continued utility of specific weapon systems.   Your comments regarding the 84mm quite clearly illustrate my point.   We all know that the Carl Gustav is largely incapable of obtaining a catstrophic kill against the latest generation of MBTs.   However, who is to say that we will necessarily be fighting an enemy equipped with T-92, M1A2 Abrams, Leclerc, Challenger II, Leopard II, etc?   Indeed, the likelihood of Canadian soldiers facing such an enemy force is remote in the extreme.   More likely, the current and anticipated operating environment will see Canadian elements faced with a non-peer, asymmetric enemy force perhaps (perhaps!) equipped with "monkey model" T-55s or T-72s.  

Notwithstanding the above, the issue of the 84mm's utility against main battle tanks is largely irrelevant.   We have the TOW and ERYX missile systems to deal with tanks, and will (hopefully soon) be augmenting those systems with ALAAWS.   The tanks that we realistically expect to face are not a problem.    The ERYX and ALAAWS will quite capably deal with the limited MBT threat.   Neither of those missile-based AT systems replaces the Carl Gustav.  

The predominant threat to Canadian soldiers on operations for the foreseeable future is Light Armoured Vehicles, armed "Technical" vehicles, VBIEDs, bunkers, caves, buidlings and other "hard targets".   The 84mm is ideal against those types of targets, and is far more applicable to short-range operations in complex/urban terrain than any of the current and planned AT missile systems.   The Carl Gustav's portability, comparative light weight, high rate of fire, wide range of ammo natures, mechanical simplicity, reliability, etc, make it one of the most versatile support weapons within the infantry inventory.   There is a reason that the U.S. Army Rangers purchased the M3 Carl Gustav in the 1990s.   There is a simiilar reason why the USMC retain similar capability in their SMAW.   All of that to say, you won't see the 84mm replaced by anything in the Canadian inventory for quite some time.   It is simply too useful and well-suited to our needs.

If your logic held true and the only reason for having anti-armour weapons was to destroy enemy tanks, then I might agree that the 84mm is past its prime.   Unfortunately, your comments are based on the false assumption that the Carl Gustav need be capable of destroying modern MBTs.   That is most definitely not the case.    Your apparent lack of understanding about extant threats within the modern operating environment and the relevant capabilities and limitations of infantry support weapons suggests to me that perhaps you should sit back and listen for a while, or at least stick to subjects that you know.....
 
No kidding.  As a former 84 Gunner, I can attest to the fact that its simplicity and versatility as a man-packed recoilless rifle[/i] provides the dismounted infantryman (or CS and CSS troops who may need some firepower in a pinch) with an excellent source of immediately available destructive power that the other small arms of the platoon are unable to provide.  As Mark C pointed out, this versatility extends to threats such as caves, bunkers, "technicals", buildings, and other hardened points - all from a weapon that is simple, relatively light, cheap, and very man portable.  As such, I can see it remaining in the hands of the infantryman for a while.

JMackenzie, as Mark C said, you'd probably be better off to stick to reading and learning then providing the board with all the tactical advice you derived from your DP1 course.
 
The Carl G is even more versatile in foreign service because of the huge variety of warheads you can get for it, the HEAT-RAP and HEDP combination the CF uses are only the tip of the iceberg.

In another sadly disposed of issue of Infantry Journal, there was an article about a made in Canada device called "CLASS" which was an all in one day/night laser rangefinder sight with a built in ballistic computer. It could be fitted to a Carl G (among other weapons) and raised the first round hit probability by a huge amount, allowing the gunner to ring someone's bell at 1000m with a great deal of confidence. I have never heard of it again, anyone else have info?
 
I believe the CLASS aiming system was made by computing devices canada and was created in the early 90's.  I remember this from a Jane's Infantry weapons of the same time frame.  I would assume the system has been upgraded or replaced with a more effective sight, being that of the research and creation of the sighting system on Striker Grenade launcher, by CDC.  Other than that, you probably know just as much, if not more than I do.....
 
http://www.gdc4s.com/Products/CDC/land/lightweight_video_sight.html

Good memory Kal.  It seems that CDC is still making it - they now call it a Lightweight Video Sight - good for any weapon ranging out to 2000m it seems, including the Striker 40 AGL.

IIRC the CLASS was also supposed to have been trialled by the Rangers at the same time as they acquired the CG84 Mk 3 with the fibre body.
 
Here I thought the 84mm tube had already met its fate like the M72 & 3.5".  I thought that canada had already updated to the laser sight system on the 84.  This is terrible, I remember when the M72 & the CG came in.
 
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