140 km Heavy Torpedo

[aesop081]

Also, he light weight ones we use in Canada (type 46) are the ones loaded on the ASW helicopters.

....and the CP-140 Aurora, which can carry 8 of them.

 

[Baz]

Suddenly occured to me; remove the warhead and add a sensor package and you have the UUV you always wanted. If the UUV finds something you don't like, load the next one with the warhead into the tube....

Good idea, but in a large part already the case.

Most heavyweight torps do something similar (quotes from Janes UnderWater Weapon Systems):
Sweden Torpedo 45 (Tp 45)
Multipurpose Lightweight Torpedo
"... can be wire-guided from a flying or hovering helicopter..."
"The wire link enables more than 80 different types of messages to be transmitted in both directions.  This information control the weapon's parameters and targeting, supervises homing procedures, and so on."
"The weapon can track several targets simultaneously, classifying target signals and rejecting all false signals..."

I know that is not a UUV per se, but it acts as a remote sensor.

A large problem with UUVs is comms links, as water is not the best medium for tradition means.  Although using a torp casing makes sense as we have the means of launching it, the propulsion systems are generally designed for high speed and short endurance, which is not the best combination for a more general search platform.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

The 46's, on the other hand, are "fire and forget" weapons. They do not have wire for guidance and hence, no capability to send signals back.

Also, a proper UUV needs to be a "recoverable" piece of gear. If you expend it as it is used and have a limited storage capability (think current frigates: a stock of 24 torps), then it better double as the weapon at the same time. Heck, it's a torpedo then!

 

[drunknsubmrnr]

Setting up an active fire control solution is considered extremely provocative to other submarines. Actually firing something "torpedo-like" would go well beyond that, and would probably trigger a counterfire from other naval units.

This device is an ad to "Buy German" and is probably aimed at the RAN/RCN for their new Klasse 216 boats. It isn't remotely like an actual capability.

 

[Virtuoso]

Honestly, I don't think that a 140 km torpedo is any better than firing a torpedo from close range from a silent submarine. Torpedoes make a hell lot more noise than our Victoria class SSKs and if acoustic stealth is the emphasis here than closing in a submarine to 10 km of the enemy surface combatant would make a lot more sense.

 

[aesop081]

closing in a submarine to 10 km of the enemy surface combatant would make a lot more sense.

No, it doesn't.

If a submarine fires its torpedo within 10 Km of a ship, my search area (around the ship that just blew up) is much smaller that if the ship fired it from 140 Km away.

An AOP with a radius of 140Km is huge, Do you have any idea how hard it is to find a needle in a stack of needles ?

 

[cupper]

Here's a question, wouldn't a shot 140 km out from the target give a fairly early warning to both the target and the follow on hunters?

This would give time for the target to deploy countermeasures. And if the shooter had to hold station until the target is hit, it give the hunters (and possibly the target) time to try and get a fix on the firing point.

 

[aesop081]

Here's a question, wouldn't a shot 140 km out from the target give a fairly early warning to both the target and the follow on hunters?

Depends how the weapon functions. Remember that it doesn't operate in isolation. There are other things in the water making noise.

And if the shooter had to hold station until the target is hit,

Who says it does ?

 

[cupper]

Who says it does ?

Does the shooter need to hold station if the torpedo is wire guided?

I know that this wouldn't apply for a fire & forget fish, but wouldn't a wire guided fish preclude the shooter from making evasive maneuvers?

 

[aesop081]

Does the shooter need to hold station if the torpedo is wire guided?

The article does not state it is wire-guided. But, AFAIK, the answer to your question is no.

 

[drunknsubmrnr]

The Germans use fiber-optic cable, not wire. I doubt they have enough for a fish to actually travel 140 km.

A 21" torpedo going 140km would need to go pretty slowly. A targets best move would probably be to just run like hell.

 

[aesop081]

The Germans use fiber-optic cable, not wire. I doubt they have enough for a fish to actually travel 140 km.

The original article quoted states:

The new version of the SeaHake mod4 is also fitted with innovative navigation and communications technology, enabling extremely precise navigation and control of the torpedo over the entire distance.

Given that the weapon has achieved a range of 140 Km, their new guidance system is probably either purely internal or is hybrid between wire-guided and internal.

 

[a_majoor]

Although it is not states in the article, I would suspect such a weapon would start off slowly to clear the launch platform without making a lot of noise, then move to the target location being "talked onto" the target by the launcher, then sprinting the final portion of the distance once the target is pin pointed or the target starts to make a run for it. If done correctly, the target hears the motor go to sprint speed from a fairly close distance, so even if they are very lucky and manage to evade they will have an incorrect idea of where the torpedo actually came from.

For that matter, with 140 km of range, the torpedo could, in theory, circle around the target and come in from any arbitrary heading, totally confounding the search for the launcher.

 

[aesop081]

Although it is not states in the article, I would suspect such a weapon would start off slowly to clear the launch platform without making a lot of noise, then move to the target location being "talked onto" the target by the launcher, then sprinting the final portion of the distance once the target is pin pointed or the target starts to make a run for it. If done correctly, the target hears the motor go to sprint speed from a fairly close distance, so even if they are very lucky and manage to evade they will have an incorrect idea of where the torpedo actually came from.

For that matter, with 140 km of range, the torpedo could, in theory, circle around the target and come in from any arbitrary heading, totally confounding the search for the launcher.

It is much more complicated than that.

 

[a_majoor]

It is much more complicated than that.

But I is infantry...how much do you want my head to hurt?  ;D

 

[aesop081]

But I is infantry...how much do you want my head to hurt?  ;D

ASW can make anyone's head hurt.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

ASW is just a game of really high stakes, three dimensional chess.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

ASW is just a game of really high stakes, three dimensional chess.

... that you play blindfolded and with one arm tied behind your back. 

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Pretty much.

 

[drunknsubmrnr]

And you don't know if your opponent is still in the game until they take your queen.