New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[GR66]

The Pohjanma corvette is about 20m longer and almost 2,000 tons heavier, but otherwise ticks all boxes. And most of the extra weight is probably from the ice strengthening.

It sounds like the maximum 105m length is a firm requirement as the ships will need to fit in the existing Halifax-class berths.

 

[Maxman1]

It sounds like the maximum 105m length is a firm requirement as the ships will need to fit in the existing Halifax-class berths.

The Halifax class are 134m, while the Pohjanma class will be 117m.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Seems like a Halifax replacement more than a Kingston replacement

Is there a role for a Kingston class in todays world ? Do we need another sightseeing vessel with notional operational capability ?

I understand that war fighting is not the only thing Navies do, but is the base line thing that navies need to be able to do.

I think the Kingston class replacement should bring something vastly better to the AOR than what the Kingston's did/do and probably be something in-between the RCDs and the AOPs, leaning closer to a small RCD, when it comes to warfighting capability.

 

[Underway]

It sounds like the maximum 105m length is a firm requirement as the ships will need to fit in the existing Halifax-class berths.

Its the firm requirement because with the new subs, JSS, AOPS and CSC there isn't any space to put everyone in Halifax Dockyard if the ships are longer than 105m.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Its the firm requirement because with the new subs, JSS, AOPS and CSC there isn't any space to put everyone in Halifax Dockyard if the ships are longer than 105m.

Heaven forbid consider using Shearwater….

 

[deepblue202]

Heaven forbid consider using Shearwater….

I remember as a kid in the early eighties my family lived on Barracuda Dr in Shearwater and seeing two American Submarines docked was very cool.

 

[Underway]

Heaven forbid consider using Shearwater….

Maybe they did! Lol. There's a lot of new tonnage and all of it is bigger than the old tonnage. Consider CSC is 20m longer than the frigates, AOPS are much bigger than MCDV's, JSS same size as older AOR's (more or less), and then add an additional 4 more submarines (on top of the two that should be there right now) that will be significantly larger. And, if there are CMC's there will be just more surface ships as well.

But I see your point, there should be a good look at infrastructure upgrades like they are doing on the West Coast for all this stuff. West Coast has just completed B jetty, are working on A jetty and that will triple the availalbe space in the harbour. Then they are going to build a whole new ammo jetty with a deep draught for the larger ships (having then two ammo jetties).

 

[Kirkhill]

Is there a role for a Kingston class in todays world ? Do we need another sightseeing vessel with notional operational capability ?

I understand that war fighting is not the only thing Navies do, but is the base line thing that navies need to be able to do.

I think the Kingston class replacement should bring something vastly better to the AOR than what the Kingston's did/do and probably be something in-between the RCDs and the AOPs, leaning closer to a small RCD, when it comes to warfighting capability.

Minimally Crewed - Optionally Crewed - Remotely Crewed - Autonomous, Robo-Pickups with whatever systems you can put in a seacan. You can use them for delivery systems to the fleet, as arsenals, to patrol zones or just to park them in the middle of the ocean to act as bases of fire or observation. And they can be acquired and built cheaply and quickly.




And

UK Royal Navy receives first autonomous mine countermeasures system - Breaking Defense

"Developments in sensor technology, data analytics, and machine learning have all significantly contributed to this innovation, allowing vessels to operate either fully autonomously or remote controlled by operators in a portable operations centre," said the UK MoD.

breakingdefense.com

 

[Nvlgzr]

Heaven forbid consider using Shearwater….

As well there is jetty NL over at CFB annex where they used to keep the “O” boats tied up at end of life.

 

[Underway]

As well there is jetty NL over at CFB annex where they used to keep the “O” boats tied up at end of life.

That jetty would need some TLC but yah it's an option.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Just looking at icebreakers today

Currently there is 1x PC2 icebreaker in service in the west and 6 in Russia with currently 1 new Russian Project 22220 in operation as a replacement for the preceding class. By the time the Canadian and US PC2 icebreakers launch there will be 6 in the West, meaning that Canada will have 33% of the western heavy icebreaking fleet. Assuming the Russians get more of the P22220 ones in operation and replace the older ones at 1 to 1, then Canada would still have 16.5% of the global heavy icebreaking fleet.

 

[Underway]

Just looking at icebreakers today

Currently there is 1x PC2 icebreaker in service in the west and 6 in Russia with currently 1 new Russian Project 22220 in operation as a replacement for the preceding class. By the time the Canadian and US PC2 icebreakers launch there will be 6 in the West, meaning that Canada will have 33% of the western heavy icebreaking fleet. Assuming the Russians get more of the P22220 ones in operation and replace the older ones at 1 to 1, then Canada would still have 16.5% of the global heavy icebreaking fleet.

Military Purchasing Power Parity at work. It definitely works against us.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Is there a role for a Kingston class in todays world ? Do we need another sightseeing vessel with notional operational capability ?

I understand that war fighting is not the only thing Navies do, but is the base line thing that navies need to be able to do.

I think the Kingston class replacement should bring something vastly better to the AOR than what the Kingston's did/do and probably be something in-between the RCDs and the AOPs, leaning closer to a small RCD, when it comes to warfighting capability.

I've read a lot of Clancy so I'm clearly an expert on all things Naval (so take this opinion for what it's worth)

I think it's obvious that we need something more than a modernized Kingston- a Naval beat cop with at best a medium caliber cannon just doesn't cut it.

But I also think (based on reading and agreeing with Noah's substack on the subject) that the 40 person Vigilance Frankenvette is too much of a risk. If a 2500+ tonne "true corvette" like a MEKO A100 or GoWind isn't in the cards, tailoring the Vigilance to be something like the capability set of a Knud Rasmussen (or license building an updated version) is still a massive step up from the Kingston's with respect to warfighting, without the Icarus like potential of trying to cram 2500 tonnes of capability into an 1000 tonne sausage and ending up with nothing when our wings burn off.

 

[PrairieFella]

Any thoughts

 

[Czech_pivo]

Any thoughts View attachment 92184

What does that even mean?
'Come out from the left?'

 

[FSTO]

What does that even mean?
'Come out from the left?'

I'm thinking that some of the ideas about increasing defence procurement coming from LPC and NDP will be in the vicinity of Unicorns farting skittles out of their ass.

The CPC ideas will be Beluga whales farting skittles. Still mainly a fantasy, but at least the Belugas are real.

 

[Rainbow1910]

What does that even mean?
'Come out from the left?'

'Come out of the left field' is my guess, given it has been the Conservatives talking point for silly armed icebreakers in years past and recently on the campaign trail.

 

[Czech_pivo]

'Come out of the left field' is my guess, given it has been the Conservatives talking point for silly armed icebreakers in years past and recently on the campaign trail

Do we really need that to happen?

 

[Navy_Pete]

Its the firm requirement because with the new subs, JSS, AOPS and CSC there isn't any space to put everyone in Halifax Dockyard if the ships are longer than 105m.

That's a really dumb way to come up with a technical restriction, when they are ignoring the complete lack of people to operate a corvette class on top of existing fleet plans (which we already don't have enough people for).

Why assume we'll magically fix attrition and have a significant growth in trained people in trades that are trending to 40% remar but then assume we can't figure out a few additional jetties somewhere in the Halifax region? They also don't have jetties for the CSCs or subs so expansion is needed anyway.

 

[PrairieFella]

What does that even mean?
'Come out from the left?'

Coming out of left fid said in a weird way haha. Maybe announcements on CPSP too?