Author Topic: Trades OPEN / Closed ?  (Read 477363 times)

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Online Buck_HRA

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Re: Trades OPEN / Closed ?
« Reply #1450 on: March 27, 2017, 10:54:45 »
Temporary Holds can happen for a variety of reasons from Detachment Capacity (i.e. they have more files in process than they can process and need to put a hold on files that aren't to a certain point in the system), to the file not being competitive, to the trade being full.  Your best bet is to contact your detachment and ask them why your file is on hold.

Best Regards

Offline EpicBeardedMan

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Re: Trades OPEN / Closed ?
« Reply #1451 on: April 16, 2017, 01:10:42 »
Anyone have an idea when the Cyber Op trade is going to open for civvies? Interested in coming back to the Armed Forces for this.
The military isn't really like a James Bond movie where you go for jet training in the morning and then underwater demolitions after lunch.

Online Buck_HRA

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Re: Trades OPEN / Closed ?
« Reply #1452 on: April 24, 2017, 13:40:08 »
There is no date for when it is being opened for Intake as of yet.
The entry standards still have not been promulgated/approved, and until that is done the Recruiting System cannot start doing Intake.

Offline Beartech

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Re: Trades OPEN / Closed ?
« Reply #1453 on: September 10, 2017, 22:01:39 »
Hello there, new to the forums and apologies in advance if I break any etiquette:

I've been super interested in the Geo Tech trade for a few years and am now in a life position where I'm ready to apply. However, I see (on forces.ca) that Geo Tech is one of the few trades not listed as 'Now Hiring'. How accurate is that list? Is it still worth applying and getting the gears in motion or am I wasting my time? Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers!

Offline walrath

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Re: Trades OPEN / Closed ?
« Reply #1454 on: September 11, 2017, 11:02:05 »
Hello there, new to the forums and apologies in advance if I break any etiquette:

I've been super interested in the Geo Tech trade for a few years and am now in a life position where I'm ready to apply. However, I see (on forces.ca) that Geo Tech is one of the few trades not listed as 'Now Hiring'. How accurate is that list? Is it still worth applying and getting the gears in motion or am I wasting my time? Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers!

You should apply. However you should speak to a recruiter to find out the details, a new course runs every year starting Aug-Sept. The last few years there have been more direct entries into the trade it seems.

Offline Patricias

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Re: Trades OPEN / Closed ?
« Reply #1455 on: September 28, 2017, 13:45:30 »
I was in for my medical/interview a few weeks ago. They told me that there are currently 419 job openings for infantry right now. (Almost an entire battalion..... wow).

Offline LeoC

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Re: Trades OPEN / Closed ?
« Reply #1456 on: October 21, 2017, 20:43:52 »
Dear Sir Buck_HRA,

Thank you for your countless informative and straight to the point posts.

I wonder if you could make public two stats regarding Pilot applications. I understand that the number of positions vary from year to year but to your best knowledge concerning the past 2 or 3 fiscal years, what is the average yearly rate of:
1) All pilot applicants (from day 1 of their applications) per actual pilot positions offered;
2) All DEO pilot applicants per actual DEO pilot positions offered.

As an aspiring applicant, the information above would be pivotal to a data driven decision on pursuing a life long aspiration as my window of opportunity quickly closes down on me as the years go by. Your attention to this matter is highly appreciated.

Best regards,
LeoC

Online Roger123

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Re: Trades OPEN / Closed ?
« Reply #1457 on: Yesterday at 13:04:22 »


I wonder if you could make public two stats regarding Pilot applications. I understand that the number of positions vary from year to year but to your best knowledge concerning the past 2 or 3 fiscal years, what is the average yearly rate of:
1) All pilot applicants (from day 1 of their applications) per actual pilot positions offered;
2) All DEO pilot applicants per actual DEO pilot positions offered.

As an aspiring applicant, the information above would be pivotal to a data driven decision on pursuing a life long aspiration as my window of opportunity quickly closes down on me as the years go by. Your attention to this matter is highly appreciated.

Best regards,
LeoC

Im curious to know how the statistics would affect your decision to pursue pilot ( any trade for that matter) in the application process. As noted across these boards, on the aircrew selection section web page, and by talking to any recruiter, the pilot trade is a competitive trade. If this is a life-long aspiration for you, just get the application ball rolling ( if you havent already) and prepare for each step of the process to the best of your ability. The application process can be very long. From my personal experience, I began my application around June 2016 and was only merit listed around September 2017( still havent been offered the/any position). If your waiting on pursuing something ( academic/ job opportunity) after seeing how the application to pilot turns out, that could be a big opportunity cost. You may be disqualified early in the process, towards the end, or get an offer. Either way, the road is filled with testing. interview, medicals ,etc. with long waiting periods in-between. If you dont pursue something ( and I guess someone) that you love you will always wonder "what if". Anyway, good luck to you.

Offline LeoC

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Re: Trades OPEN / Closed ?
« Reply #1458 on: Yesterday at 19:21:29 »
Im curious to know how the statistics would affect your decision to pursue pilot ( any trade for that matter) in the application process. As noted across these boards, on the aircrew selection section web page, and by talking to any recruiter, the pilot trade is a competitive trade. If this is a life-long aspiration for you, just get the application ball rolling ( if you havent already) and prepare for each step of the process to the best of your ability. The application process can be very long. From my personal experience, I began my application around June 2016 and was only merit listed around September 2017( still havent been offered the/any position). If your waiting on pursuing something ( academic/ job opportunity) after seeing how the application to pilot turns out, that could be a big opportunity cost. You may be disqualified early in the process, towards the end, or get an offer. Either way, the road is filled with testing. interview, medicals ,etc. with long waiting periods in-between. If you dont pursue something ( and I guess someone) that you love you will always wonder "what if". Anyway, good luck to you.

Thank you for your post, Roger123. I can see why you would not understand the weight of statistics in my personal decision as you have no knowledge of the big picture of my personal life. Having said that, the answer to those questions will indeed weight in on my decision. Differently than most applicants in this forum and elsewhere, I am at a point in life where I understand in my skin that not all life long aspirations are to be materialized and that there are pros and cons to both outcomes. I can humbly but honestly say that I have already achieved the vast majority of my life long aspirations thankfully largely to making data driven decisions, choosing wisely where to concentrate my energy since that, unfortunately, is a limited resource. This was how I became a Canadian citizen on my own merits, learned a foreign language, grew and consolidated my company and was even part of how I built a happy and solid marriage, 19 years and counting. So even though I sincerely appreciate your enthusiasm and time to share to your perspective, I will still wait to hear from Buck_HRA and ponder on what he has to say.
Best of luck to you as well!

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Re: Trades OPEN / Closed ?
« Reply #1459 on: Yesterday at 19:34:33 »
Thank you for your post, Roger123. I can see why you would not understand the weight of statistics in my personal decision as you have no knowledge of the big picture of my personal life. Having said that, the answer to those questions will indeed weight in on my decision. Differently than most applicants in this forum and elsewhere, I am at a point in life where I understand in my skin that not all life long aspirations are to be materialized and that there are pros and cons to both outcomes. I can humbly but honestly say that I have already achieved the vast majority of my life long aspirations thankfully largely to making data driven decisions, choosing wisely where to concentrate my energy since that, unfortunately, is a limited resource. This was how I became a Canadian citizen on my own merits, learned a foreign language, grew and consolidated my company and was even part of how I built a happy and solid marriage, 19 years and counting. So even though I sincerely appreciate your enthusiasm and time to share to your perspective, I will still wait to hear from Buck_HRA and ponder on what he has to say.
Best of luck to you as well!

The problem with making a "data driven decision" on applying as a DEO Pilot, is that all those numbers are meaningless when it comes to your actual application. We could get 10,000 DEO applicants a year, hire only 10, which would make it highly unlikely that you'd get picked up, but perhaps you have an excellent file and jump to the top of the merit list. You're trying to use 2 numbered factors when its actually highly complex. You also aren't clear as to "DEO applicants". Does that mean folks who put Pilot on the application? Or the smaller list of those who pass Aircrew Medical? Or the smaller number who pass Aircrew medical and the CAPSS (I believe that's the name) simulator testing?

If your decision to apply or not is solely based on how easy its perceived to be based on applicants to positions ratio, I'd argue you don't have the mental attitude a pilot, let alone a CAF member needs to strive through adversity in a challenging and stressful environment.

Offline Pre-flight

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Re: Trades OPEN / Closed ?
« Reply #1460 on: Yesterday at 21:09:09 »
Based on some personal experience, the trade right now is hurting for numbers. It's not quite as "competitive" as it has been in the past.

However, being competitive is only one hurdle, the biggest issue is how high the bar is to qualify in the first place.

Right now the pass rates for the CFAT/Interview are about 50% for the pilot trade ( that is, getting a good enough recommendation from the selection officer to be asked to come to the selection course) then the selection course pass rate are very low, generally around 25% pass rate for pilot.

Then you head to the medical. While you do a pre-selection medical by a flight surgeon before, the actual full medical in Toronto is very very comprehensive. It's quite possible to pass all the testing only to be told you aren't medically fit enough.

It's only after all that does being competitive actually matter, since you could be the most competitive file they've ever seen but if you fail one of the above you'll never make it to the board.

My personal experience is passing everything, not being selected then the following year reapplying and finally getting selected.
+300

Offline LeoC

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Re: Trades OPEN / Closed ?
« Reply #1461 on: Yesterday at 21:18:09 »
The problem with making a "data driven decision" on applying as a DEO Pilot, is that all those numbers are meaningless when it comes to your actual application. We could get 10,000 DEO applicants a year, hire only 10, which would make it highly unlikely that you'd get picked up, but perhaps you have an excellent file and jump to the top of the merit list. You're trying to use 2 numbered factors when its actually highly complex. You also aren't clear as to "DEO applicants". Does that mean folks who put Pilot on the application? Or the smaller list of those who pass Aircrew Medical? Or the smaller number who pass Aircrew medical and the CAPSS (I believe that's the name) simulator testing?

If your decision to apply or not is solely based on how easy its perceived to be based on applicants to positions ratio, I'd argue you don't have the mental attitude a pilot, let alone a CAF member needs to strive through adversity in a challenging and stressful environment.

Thank you for your post, PuckChaser. If you take the time to re-read my original post, you will see that contrary to what you have stated, I was clear in my questions: both refer to the beginning of the application and end at the job offer, so to a good analytical reader the statistics I am interested in begin at the moment any single applicant writes down "Pilot" as one of their desired occupations and end at the moment they are either offered a Pilot position or not, if the latter, regardless of the reason why.

In regards to seeing statistics as "meaningless", I would strongly beg to disagree with you, Sir. As a matter of fact, any professional working in crucial occupations where lives are at stake, pilots included, must make split second decisions which although might look based solely on experience, are actually based on their capacity to quickly compute what-if scenarios, compound weights to each one and make the wisest, safest decision at any given time. Understanding samples of a universe is the primal base of statistics. Furthermore, I would be very skeptical of military leaders anywhere in the world who show disregard for statistics. As a matter of fact, I would go as far as saying that both logistics and statistics are two of most essential pillars of any military force. So while you, like the Roger123 before you, cannot understand my interest in the data I requested from Buck_HRA, I remain firm in believing that it is an important piece of information to my personal decision making process. I might be wrong but it seems to me that both yourself and Roger123 have assumed that by mentioning the fact that I always try to make data driven decisions, that the only data I will use to make my decision in regards to my potential application to the CAF as Pilot would rely solely on such data provided by Buck_HRA and you would be wrong. So even though the statistics I requested will be an important part of the puzzle, it will not be the only piece of data in my data driven decision.

Finally, in regards to your understanding of my alleged lack of proper mental attitude to be a member of the CAF as a pilot or in any other position, it is first and foremost irrelevant. There is a reason why a strict selection process is in place and even though you are entitled to your opinion, it has no weight on said process. Assuming that by asking a statistical question, one is just looking to perceive how "easy" a task is and using this fantastical assumption to admonish this someone, ultimately, only reviews the critic's own values.

By the way, Sir, the simulator test you referred is not in place anymore and has been replaced by the CFAST - Canadian Forces Aircrew Selection Test.

Regards,
LeoC

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Re: Trades OPEN / Closed ?
« Reply #1462 on: Yesterday at 21:28:48 »
You don't need Sir in there at all (or as often), it just makes you come off as a condescending jerk.

What you didn't pick up is that statistics is not the full solution here. Pre-flight had a great post outling the process and personal experience on the odds. Buck_HRA is not going to take up some extremely valuable time to outline every permutation of the recruiting process and how statistically possible it is you get accepted. There's also a great deal of personal ability and medical suitability involved in pilot selection and success that cannot be calculated down to the multiple decimal points you may require.

I've spent a lot of my time as a Snr NCO evaluating risk to both mission, men and self and provided advice to my commanders balancing "statistics" and operational experience. You seem to think you have leadership in the CAF figured out, and that those with real experience won't be able to change your mind. That is precisely the attitude that the CAF deplores, and if you do get in and don't change it, your career will be short and uneventful, despite however heartwarming your life story has been up to this point.

Sometimes you just have to bet against the odds and push yourself to succeed regardless of what the numbers say. There's lots of examples on this forum of folks who got dealt a bad hand in life, worked to better themselves and beat the odds to make it through the recruiting process into a uniform. If that sounds too hard, stay a civilian. It won't get any easier in the cockpit.

Offline LeoC

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Re: Trades OPEN / Closed ?
« Reply #1463 on: Yesterday at 21:35:03 »
Based on some personal experience, the trade right now is hurting for numbers. It's not quite as "competitive" as it has been in the past.

However, being competitive is only one hurdle, the biggest issue is how high the bar is to qualify in the first place.

Right now the pass rates for the CFAT/Interview are about 50% for the pilot trade ( that is, getting a good enough recommendation from the selection officer to be asked to come to the selection course) then the selection course pass rate are very low, generally around 25% pass rate for pilot.

Then you head to the medical. While you do a pre-selection medical by a flight surgeon before, the actual full medical in Toronto is very very comprehensive. It's quite possible to pass all the testing only to be told you aren't medically fit enough.

It's only after all that does being competitive actually matter, since you could be the most competitive file they've ever seen but if you fail one of the above you'll never make it to the board.

My personal experience is passing everything, not being selected then the following year reapplying and finally getting selected.

Thank you for your insight, Pre-flight, I hear you loud and clear, Sir. As a matter of fact, I am such the factual person who, apparently, makes most personal decisions based on data, that last week, being aware of the extremely demanding medical standards (2-2-2-2-2-1 for MOSID 00183 Pilot) and knowing it is one of the last evaluations for a successful Pilot candidate, I privately paid for and took the same long and thorough exam from a Doctor, ex-CAF Flight Surgeon, to see if I would pass the Air Factor test today and the answer was positive. While I understand it does not mean I would pass the actual medical exam, if I get that far, in one or two years time, still it is a good reference to have or, as I like to call it, a good piece of data to assist me in my decision process.

Thank you once again for your post.

Regards,
LeoC

Online Roger123

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Re: Trades OPEN / Closed ?
« Reply #1464 on: Yesterday at 21:36:26 »

My personal experience is passing everything, not being selected then the following year reapplying and finally getting selected.


Congrats on being selected Pre-Flight. Just a couple of questions. What was your entry plan? And, how does the re-selection process for the following year work? Was there any re-testing / interview/ medical in your case? Good luck with your training.

Offline LeoC

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Re: Trades OPEN / Closed ?
« Reply #1465 on: Yesterday at 22:21:23 »
You don't need Sir in there at all (or as often), it just makes you come off as a condescending jerk.

What you didn't pick up is that statistics is not the full solution here. Pre-flight had a great post outling the process and personal experience on the odds. Buck_HRA is not going to take up some extremely valuable time to outline every permutation of the recruiting process and how statistically possible it is you get accepted. There's also a great deal of personal ability and medical suitability involved in pilot selection and success that cannot be calculated down to the multiple decimal points you may require.

I've spent a lot of my time as a Snr NCO evaluating risk to both mission, men and self and provided advice to my commanders balancing "statistics" and operational experience. You seem to think you have leadership in the CAF figured out, and that those with real experience won't be able to change your mind. That is precisely the attitude that the CAF deplores, and if you do get in and don't change it, your career will be short and uneventful, despite however heartwarming your life story has been up to this point.

Sometimes you just have to bet against the odds and push yourself to succeed regardless of what the numbers say. There's lots of examples on this forum of folks who got dealt a bad hand in life, worked to better themselves and beat the odds to make it through the recruiting process into a uniform. If that sounds too hard, stay a civilian. It won't get any easier in the cockpit.

Thank you for your message. I apologize if I sounded like a condescending jerk. All I intended was to show respect to people I do not personally know.

Please, allow me to point out a few personal views:

- I never said that statistics was the full solution whereas you assumed that by asking a statistical question to assist on a data driven decision, that whatever I heard from Buch_HRA would be the sole data factor. You are mistaken.

- I have read several posts from Buch_HRA and commended him for his clarity and forthrightness. I understand he is a busy person and that is why I ask if he "could" answer me. Even if he cannot, a decision will be made, with or without this piece of data.

- As for the tough medical requirements, it is a real valid point. Please refer to my post above to Pre-Flight on this subject.

- No, I do not have anything in the CAF figured out. If I did, I would not be here asking questions. I also truly believe, understand and respect the relevance of your knowledge of all things CAF just as I hope you understand the relevance of my knowledge of my own personal matters.

- I fully agree and live by your statement that "Sometimes you just have to bet against the odds and push yourself to succeed regardless of what the numbers say" keyword being "sometimes" and I am just trying to figure out if now is one of these times in my life.

- You seem to have fully disregarded my previous message on the topic of being "easy" or "hard". Not all decisions to apply for the CAF are based solely on how hard or how easy it is to become and remain a military person. You make it sound like there is only "hard" in the military and while I would agree that a military life is a calling, not a job, I also believe that there is also Truth, Duty and Valour in the civilian world.

I apologize beforehand in case there are continuing replies to my message as I will not be able to respond anymore tonight. Even in my heartwarming life, I do have to get back to work on a Sunday night.

Thank you once again,
LeoC


Offline Pre-flight

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Re: Trades OPEN / Closed ?
« Reply #1466 on: Today at 06:19:19 »
Congrats on being selected Pre-Flight. Just a couple of questions. What was your entry plan? And, how does the re-selection process for the following year work? Was there any re-testing / interview/ medical in your case? Good luck with your training.

I was a SNCO before, I was entered in under the Special Commissioning Plan as I had completed a degree part time on my own.

As far as the 2nd year, I had to do the application all over again, including the interview. The medical/aptitude testing has at least a 2 year validity (I did not need to do another, but I wasn't able to get an authoritative answer on how long they are valid, the best I can say is at least 2 years, probably not much longer than that).

Offline Pre-flight

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Re: Trades OPEN / Closed ?
« Reply #1467 on: Today at 06:23:52 »
Thank you for your message. I apologize if I sounded like a condescending jerk. All I intended was to show respect to people I do not personally know.

Please, allow me to point out a few personal views:

- I never said that statistics was the full solution whereas you assumed that by asking a statistical question to assist on a data driven decision, that whatever I heard from Buch_HRA would be the sole data factor. You are mistaken.

- I have read several posts from Buch_HRA and commended him for his clarity and forthrightness. I understand he is a busy person and that is why I ask if he "could" answer me. Even if he cannot, a decision will be made, with or without this piece of data.

- As for the tough medical requirements, it is a real valid point. Please refer to my post above to Pre-Flight on this subject.

- No, I do not have anything in the CAF figured out. If I did, I would not be here asking questions. I also truly believe, understand and respect the relevance of your knowledge of all things CAF just as I hope you understand the relevance of my knowledge of my own personal matters.

- I fully agree and live by your statement that "Sometimes you just have to bet against the odds and push yourself to succeed regardless of what the numbers say" keyword being "sometimes" and I am just trying to figure out if now is one of these times in my life.

- You seem to have fully disregarded my previous message on the topic of being "easy" or "hard". Not all decisions to apply for the CAF are based solely on how hard or how easy it is to become and remain a military person. You make it sound like there is only "hard" in the military and while I would agree that a military life is a calling, not a job, I also believe that there is also Truth, Duty and Valour in the civilian world.

I apologize beforehand in case there are continuing replies to my message as I will not be able to respond anymore tonight. Even in my heartwarming life, I do have to get back to work on a Sunday night.

Thank you once again,
LeoC

Here's my advice.

If pilot is something you want, go for it, damned the statistics. Frankly if you base it on stats then even applying seems like a waste of time given the selection rate from off the street. That said, put it as the #1 choice, because the only thing that really matters is not my or anyone else's opinion, it's the big "P" marks you get on the testing.

As you go through the recruiting process, they'll check you against your #1 choice, if you make it, you're in, if you don't, then #2 or #3 choice are still there. There's no point in ruling yourself out based on statistics, if you want it, push for it and see how the cards stack up at the end.

Offline Loachman

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Re: Trades OPEN / Closed ?
« Reply #1468 on: Today at 07:53:59 »
Three statisticians go deer hunting. They spot a deer at the edge of a woodline. The first statistician takes careful aim, gently applies pressure to his trigger, and puts his round into a tree three feet to the left of the deer. The second statistician lines up his shot, squeezes it off, and hits another tree three feet to the right of the deer. The third statistician enthusiastically yells "We nailed him".

When I was in the Pilot training process, we were told that one in eight hundred applicants would earn his (there were no female Pilots then) Wings.

With odds like that, why bother?

What are the chances that any given athlete will win an Olympic gold medal? Why even bother?

Either you meet the required Pilot medical standards or you do not. You'll not know until you actually go through the full process. A trial run with another doctor is irrelevant. Either you have the innate ability to succeed or you do not. You'll not know until you actually go through the full process. Self-(but not over-)confidence, lots of motivation, tons of hard work, and a bit of luck (don't count on that at all) are absolutely required to build on whatever natural talent and ability that you may have.

Just the same as any athlete aiming for gold.

Right now, your head is in the wrong place. You are focussing on the wrong things. That will not lead you to success.

The odds are against you, after all.

Why bother?

Save yourself the effort.

Stay with your comfortable data-driven life.