Author Topic: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)  (Read 45002 times)

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Offline Brihard

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #50 on: November 04, 2012, 19:43:12 »
Also been looking through some threads, RMC is apparently quite competitive to get into... would that mean if you fail to get into RMC but pass everything else in ROTP that you just aren't accepted into the training program instead of being offered civi uni sponsorship?

That can happen, absolutely. Or you may be offered one of your alternative trade choices if you've specified any.

If your grades are as you claim, you are probably more likely to not be accepted for MPO ROTP than to not be accepted for RMC. There are very few positions for MPO, and it is not merited on anything close to a strictly academic basis.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline OscarMike

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #51 on: November 04, 2012, 19:50:32 »
So... You want to get the Canadian taxpayer to cover the cost of your education so that you can serve the minimal necessary time in the military as an MP Officer

We have previously established that, yes.

Quote
In that role you won't do much actual policing, you'll mostly be an administrator who won't even be in long enough to get particularly good at much. You somehow think that your university education - which doesn't actually teach how to do much at all, plus some time behind a desk as a junior MPO that can't even lateral you into many municipal forces, will somehow get you a 'federal agent' job back in Britain?

ROTP would, in my opinion based upon the information I have from Canadian universities on international transfer credits, most likely take up 4 year.s That means 8 years of subsequent service afterwards. I'm not "across the pond" nor am I in Britain.


Quote
Yeah... Don't hold your breath. MPO is a rather limited trade, and most applicants aren't nearly so mercenary in their intentions. You would be wasting an ROTP spot that could go to someone more deserving who intends to stick around and serve our country for more than the bare minimum they need to not get billed for it.

That is your opinion.

Offline OscarMike

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #52 on: November 04, 2012, 19:54:23 »
If your grades are as you claim, you are probably more likely to not be accepted for MPO ROTP than to not be accepted for RMC. There are very few positions for MPO, and it is not merited on anything close to a strictly academic basis.

Oh that I understand. I have relevant employment history, experiences and certifications that should reinforce my academics.

Offline Brihard

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #53 on: November 04, 2012, 20:02:38 »
We have previously established that, yes.

At least you're up front about what you are.

ROTP would, in my opinion based upon the information I have from Canadian universities on international transfer credits, most likely take up 4 year.s That means 8 years of subsequent service afterwards. I'm not "across the pond" nor am I in Britain.

Your research has not served you well, as your calculations are incorrect. Anyway, where you are specifically really doesn't matter a great deal.

That is your opinion.

My statement about MPO being very limited for ROTP entry is not an 'opinion'. I am privy to the numbers that MPO takes from the various entry plans. It is not many under any of them. The rest of it - my opinion - is rather qualified professional one. I as an NCO would not wish that I or my troops be subjected to your command based on what you've told us thus far about your ethic of service to Canada and your intend to milk what you can and then bugger off- you can determine what that opinion is worth, if anything. And I say that coolly and objectively.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline OscarMike

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #54 on: November 04, 2012, 20:03:33 »
What's wrong with sharing the country you're from? Criminology is the study of why crimes are committed and why people become criminals (in case you didn't know already); it has very little application to a Police Organization. It is only good paired with but not limited to: Forensic or Accounting. Criminologists do things study cases of Criminal Insanity and then "advise" police organizations on how they can better equip their members to handle calls when attending known mental health subjects or to assist officers in detecting symptoms of mental issues in a subject. They study Serious Incident Responses, like when an officer ends up needing to shoot an aggressive subject and then advise police organizations or politicians on their findings which then results in changing the Rules of Engagement, Use of Force Continuum and junk like that. In my opinion, very few Criminology graduates/Criminologists actually work for a Police Service.. Criminal Justice, unless it is specifically Justice Studies of Policing... then a Degree in Criminal Justice will only do you any good if you're going to law school to become a Crown Prosecutor or a Defense Lawyer (Criminal Lawyer).

Both Criminology and Criminal Justice here are designed and orientated towards policing. Only the first year subjects are "why crimes are committed and why people become criminology". The rest focuses on the application of the two into the real world such as "tactical crime analysis", "criminal law" and "Investigation Methods & Techniques" etc. in both introductory and advanced.

I have not known generic criminologists to study cases of criminal insanity nor is that even apart of my major. Rather forensic psychologists and forensic  criminologists do what you have described. 


Offline PrairieThunder

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #55 on: November 04, 2012, 20:05:04 »
Not what Chief White told us to our faces. His statistics were 10% of police foundations grades get into police forces within a year of graduation; 30% ever (and that includes those who get subsequent additional education). Criminology, conversely, fulfills the 'any sort of degree' requirement, while still being related enough to be of some benefit to a number of other criminal justice professions. Corrections, CBSA,

Police foundations, if you don't get hired as a cop, is almost completely wasted and offers few other options beyond allowing you to enter a mall security job and fit in. If you DO get hired as a cop, Everything of relevance that you learned will be retaught... Once you've hung around Blueline a bit longer though you'll se ethe attitude that cops have toward PF programs. But you of course have taken the additional step of working towards degree completion, which should 'top you up', so it oughtn't hurt you.

The only reason I did a PF was because it was more affordable for me at the time.

I was given some very great advice from my Training Officer during my Work Placement Module with Delta Police, to take another Diploma or Certificate Program - I've selected an Accounting Diploma and a Forensic Studies certificate that is a online self-paced delivery (which I'm starting in September after I complete DP1 and DP2 over the summer). While I don't particularly fancy working in Financial Crimes if I were in a standard Police Service, it gives me breadth. I'm a Front Line/Beat Type person so I'll be happy with anything. My new employer has been very supportive and empowering of everything.

P.S. I read through Blueline a couple years ago... I refuse to register there.  ;)

We have previously established that, yes.

ROTP would, in my opinion based upon the information I have from Canadian universities on international transfer credits, most likely take up 4 year.s That means 8 years of subsequent service afterwards. I'm not "across the pond" nor am I in Britain.


That is your opinion.

You just stated you're permanently residing and studying overseas, outside of North America. Which either means "Across the Pond" meaning Europe, Africa, Asia, Australia... or even South America.

So what is it? Are you overseas, with dual citizenship, or are you just making up stories that now have obvious holes?

Offline OscarMike

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #56 on: November 04, 2012, 20:09:17 »
At least you're up front about what you are.

Your research has not served you well, as your calculations are incorrect. Anyway, where you are specifically really doesn't matter a great deal.

My statement about MPO being very limited for ROTP entry is not an 'opinion'. I am privy to the numbers that MPO takes from the various entry plans. It is not many under any of them. The rest of it - my opinion - is rather qualified professional one. I as an NCO would not wish that I or my troops be subjected to your command based on what you've told us thus far about your ethic of service to Canada and your intend to milk what you can and then bugger off- you can determine what that opinion is worth, if anything. And I say that coolly and objectively.

Funny enough, in my country they cannot enlist or retain enough MPs (Officers or NCMs) where they are so desperate that they've only put a year as minimum service requirement. Fancy that, spend $10,000 training someone for them to be eligible to resign a year later. Before you question why I'm not going MPs over here, they're not exactly police officers nor conduct policing... they're concluded as being a bit of a joke. Unarmed, powerless and all. Also cannot lateral transfer.

From my research, an undergraduate degree is 4 years. For every month of sponsorship, you need to give two back. 4 x 2 is 8, yes?

Offline OscarMike

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #57 on: November 04, 2012, 20:10:42 »

You just stated you're permanently residing and studying overseas, outside of North America. Which either means "Across the Pond" meaning Europe, Africa, Asia, Australia... or even South America.

So what is it? Are you overseas, with dual citizenship, or are you just making up stories that now have obvious holes?

Across the pond is associated with the Atlantic Ocean and the United Kingdom. Feel free to make a "Today I learned" post about it on Reddit.
http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/across+the+pond.html

It does not include Europe, Asia, South America, Oceania or anywhere else.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 20:14:40 by OscarMike »

Offline PrairieThunder

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #58 on: November 04, 2012, 20:15:25 »
Across the pond is associated with the Atlantic Ocean and the United Kingdom. Feel free to make a "Today I learned" post about it on Reddit.
http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/across+the+pond.html

There's more than one "pond" in the world. I don't need your condescension. You understood what I meant.

Quote
Usage notes
The phrase usually implies the North Atlantic Ocean between North America and Europe, and is most often used to describe travel between the United Kingdom and the United States or Canada.

Europe is many, many countries, not just UK. Because it is an "implication" it does not limit the phrase to just USA/Canada to UK travel and vice versa, although it is the common usage. I've heard people use it when talking about travelling to Asia and Australia as well.

Why not just say where you're from? You obviously have a lot to hide.

Both Criminology and Criminal Justice here are designed and orientated towards policing. Only the first year subjects are "why crimes are committed and why people become criminology". The rest focuses on the application of the two into the real world such as "tactical crime analysis", "criminal law" and "Investigation Methods & Techniques" etc. in both introductory and advanced.

I have not known generic criminologists to study cases of criminal insanity nor is that even apart of my major. Rather forensic psychologists and forensic  criminologists do what you have described.

Well they do that as well. Criminologists are "critics" and "advisers" for the most part. Forensic Psychologists and Forensic Criminologist play a whole other role, but still in similar fashion. They often give statements in Court, either for or against Crown Prosecutors or Defense Lawyers; but majority work for independent investigation organizations in Canada, not police services. You said you do not understand how things work in Canada (despite having dual-citizenship), and so I am giving you what I've observed, that is all.

My Police Foundations class had a Criminology grad come in to do a presentation on Criminology. She works for the RCMP Police Complaints Commission and studies the types of complaints, number of complaints, how those people are related to police incidences etc. etc. and then makes reports to the RCMP about how they can improve their Policing Methods. She's also been pushing her reports to politicians to out Officers, making an attempt to somehow legislate change on how Police operate in Canada. I won't go into my opinion on her, but many of us asked her how just a plain Criminology degree would help a Police Officer's career... She couldn't provide an answer herself except to say "Well, you can also major in Economics and go into White Collar crimes for example."

I like Criminology as well, and love studying it... but not enough to spend money on it if it's not going to do me any real assistance anywhere... but that's just my opinion.

Edit: Corrected some spelling and grammar... I'm enjoying this Shiraz too much :P
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 20:24:12 by PrairieThunder »

Offline jwtg

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #59 on: November 04, 2012, 20:20:09 »
Funny enough, in my country they cannot enlist or retain enough MPs (Officers or NCMs) where they are so desperate that they've only put a year as minimum service requirement. Fancy that, spend $10,000 training someone for them to be eligible to resign a year later. Before you question why I'm not going MPs over here, they're not exactly police officers nor conduct policing... they're concluded as being a bit of a joke. Unarmed, powerless and all. Also cannot lateral transfer.

From my research, an undergraduate degree is 4 years. For every month of sponsorship, you need to give two back. 4 x 2 is 8, yes?
MPs, to my knowledge, are badged & recognized peace officers under the criminal code, and they do 'policing' to the extent that it is required in the CF community, as well as police work and far more in operational zones.  MPOs, to my knowledge, are NOT badged peace officers.  They are not as readily eligible for lateral transfer as their NCM counterparts.

Also, your math is wrong.  It's 2 months per month of subsidized education; your summer training is not subsidized education, it is military training.  Obligatory service typically ends up being approximately 5 years, although it can very from trade to trade based on training periods (ie. pilot).

Also, if you're currently studying at a university, why would it take you a whole 4 years for an undergrad here?  I don't know much about international education recognition, but, unless you have done very little studying, I would imagine you'd be able to knock a bit of time off your degree here, no?  Hard to say because of how vague you're being about your situation, but that's fine by me. 

Offline OscarMike

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #60 on: November 04, 2012, 20:22:10 »
Why not just say where you're from? You obviously have a lot to hide.

Protecting my privacy and the neutrality of my Canadian Forces application doesn't constitute to hiding anything.

Quote
Well they do that as well. Criminologists are "critics" and "advisers" for the most part. Forensic Psychologists and Forensic Criminologist play a whole other role, but still in similar fashion.

The criminologists I have found are mainly crime analysts or researchers. More specialist crime analysts have secondary education in the fields of accounting, forensics, psychology or another field. Criminology is important when planning out policing strategies, such as hotspot policing, or transitioning it into play as information-lead policing which is applicable to front-line policing.

Offline Brihard

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #61 on: November 04, 2012, 20:25:25 »
The only reason I did a PF was because it was more affordable for me at the time.

I was given some very great advice from my Training Officer during my Work Placement Module with Delta Police, to take another Diploma or Certificate Program - I've selected an Accounting Diploma and a Forensic Studies certificate that is a online self-paced delivery (which I'm starting in September after I complete DP1 and DP2 over the summer). While I don't particularly fancy working in Financial Crimes if I were in a standard Police Service, it gives me breadth. I'm a Front Line/Beat Type person so I'll be happy with anything. My new employer has been very supportive and empowering of everything.

The Forensic Studies certificate- is that through JIBC? I'm enough of the academic type that even while I work towards things panning out (likely pretty soon) I've always got an ear to the ground for 'value added'.

Quote from: OscarMike
From my research, an undergraduate degree is 4 years. For every month of sponsorship, you need to give two back. 4 x 2 is 8, yes?

Your research is incorrect.

Quote from: OscarMike
in my country

Yeah... Enough said, right there. Almost literally an instance of your 'true colours' showing through. Please don't waste any of the time of the military of my country. We need dedicated Canadians, not citizens of convenience who want to milk our system for a free education.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline OscarMike

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #62 on: November 04, 2012, 20:27:33 »
MPs, to my knowledge, are badged & recognized peace officers under the criminal code, and they do 'policing' to the extent that it is required in the CF community, as well as police work and far more in operational zones.  MPOs, to my knowledge, are NOT badged peace officers.  They are not as readily eligible for lateral transfer as their NCM counterparts.

I wasn't referring to Canada in my quote, but yes you are correct under the Criminal Code, military police are peace officers. Contrary to here.

Quote
Also, your math is wrong.  It's 2 months per month of subsidized education; your summer training is not subsidized education, it is military training.  Obligatory service typically ends up being approximately 5 years, although it can very from trade to trade based on training periods (ie. pilot).

Fair enough. I was using the wrong calculations, not that my math is wrong. I'd be willing to do 8 years.

Quote
Also, if you're currently studying at a university, why would it take you a whole 4 years for an undergrad here?  I don't know much about international education recognition, but, unless you have done very little studying, I would imagine you'd be able to knock a bit of time off your degree here, no?  Hard to say because of how vague you're being about your situation, but that's fine by me.

Been in contact with a few universities. They told most of my units would not transfer over or be applicable. Perhaps I'm just approaching the wrong universities. They said out of something like 10 units, only 2 would count and only towards electives.

Offline PrairieThunder

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #63 on: November 04, 2012, 20:30:32 »
The Forensic Studies certificate- is that through JIBC? I'm enough of the academic type that even while I work towards things panning out (likely pretty soon) I've always got an ear to the ground for 'value added'.

Mount Royal University, it is fairly new and sounds very intriguing in its limited capacity. There's talk of it being expanded in the future.

Protecting my privacy and the neutrality of my Canadian Forces application doesn't constitute to hiding anything.

The criminologists I have found are mainly crime analysts or researchers. More specialist crime analysts have secondary education in the fields of accounting, forensics, psychology or another field. Criminology is important when planning out policing strategies, such as hotspot policing, or transitioning it into play as information-lead policing which is applicable to front-line policing.

How do you think they came up with Policing Strategies and crime analysis and such before Criminology was a study you could attend a shiny-paper for in a University because, correct me if I'm wrong, it's a relatively new thing (new being in the last 30 years)? Police Officer's experiences and academics with other fields of studies? Yeah right...  ::)
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 20:33:45 by PrairieThunder »

Offline OscarMike

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #64 on: November 04, 2012, 20:35:20 »
The rest of it - my opinion - is rather qualified professional one. I as an NCO would not wish that I or my troops be subjected to your command based on what you've told us thus far about your ethic of service to Canada and your intend to milk what you can and then bugger off- you can determine what that opinion is worth, if anything. And I say that coolly and objectively.

I suppose that I am lucky that, as an NCO, your opinion is not taken into consideration when it comes to who gains a commission as you have no say in the matter.

Yes, because wanting to leave after minimum contract of service means poor ethics and reflects poor leadership skills.  ::)

Offline OscarMike

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #65 on: November 04, 2012, 20:39:31 »
Mount Royal University, it is fairly new and sounds very intriguing in its limited capacity. There's talk of it being expanded in the future.

How do you think they came up with Policing Strategies and crime analysis and such before Criminology was a study you could attend a shiny-paper for in a University because, correct me if I'm wrong, it's a relatively new thing (new being in the last 30 years)? Police Officer's experiences and academics with other fields of studies? Yeah right...  ::)

It was criminologists, e.g. James Q. Wilson and George L. Kelling, who came up with policing strategies, which are used today, such as "zero-tolerance policing" ?

If you consider the mid-18th century as being "relatively new", sure.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 20:43:27 by OscarMike »

Offline Brihard

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #66 on: November 04, 2012, 20:46:44 »
I suppose that I am lucky that, as an NCO, your opinion is not taken into consideration when it comes to who gains a commission as you have no say in the matter.

Yes, because wanting to leave after minimum contract of service means poor ethics and reflects poor leadership skills.  ::)

Poor leadership, not necessarily. Wanting to simply get a free education, serve a minimal period, then leave- yes, I'll call that poor ethics, as would many.

And no, I certainly have no say. Yet I do have enough experienced that looking over this whole thread, I'm honestly not particularly worried about it.

You have a good day.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline PrairieThunder

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #67 on: November 04, 2012, 20:47:14 »
It was criminologists, e.g. James Q. Wilson and George L. Kelling, who came up with policing strategies, which are used today, such as "zero-tolerance policing" ?

If you consider the mid-18th century as being "relatively new", sure.

Wilson graduated in Political Science and Kelling in Social Welfare and Philosophy... and neither of which were Police Officers. Which proves my point, they are not Criminologists in the sense that they have PhDs let alone undergrad degrees in Criminology and have never actually been able to put that to use as a Beat Cop. Criminology doesn't help you in a Domestic Violence call.

These "administrators" and "Criminologists" may have implemented things that are now modern policing guidelines or regulations, and think that what they are doing are "good ideas" and "useful" for the average beat cop... however most of it has no application to a Beat Cop and may have actually hindered Policing abilities over the years. I will admit though, faux-Criminologists like Kelling and Wilson have come up with some good ideas.

I suppose that I am lucky that, as an NCO, your opinion is not taken into consideration when it comes to who gains a commission as you have no say in the matter.

Yes, because wanting to leave after minimum contract of service means poor ethics and reflects poor leadership skills.  ::)


http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=33510.0 - The Canadian Forces Ethos... pay particular attention to the part about Loyalty to Canada, which you've clearly displayed little to none as you just wish to take advantage and leave.

I\m done now
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 20:54:34 by PrairieThunder »

Offline MusclesGlasses

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #68 on: November 04, 2012, 20:50:30 »
 :pop:

Offline Brihard

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #69 on: November 04, 2012, 20:51:08 »
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline OscarMike

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #70 on: November 04, 2012, 20:55:53 »
Wilson graduated in Political Science and Kelling in Social Welfare and Philosophy...

Both are Criminologists. Social Welfare/work encompasses Criminology. You can take Criminology under many areas including Political Science, Social Welfare, Science, etc.

Thanks for trying though. You just cannot win when you're not even studying it.

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #71 on: November 04, 2012, 20:58:30 »
For anybody who thinks that it is wrong for somebody to serve the minimum time and then leave, it is not. Our system is designed that way. If the intent was to keep people in longer, the obligatory service period would be lengthened to that longer period. A commitment to the current minimum is sufficient. Somebody may join with the intent to serve until CRA and then decide otherwise, or join with the intent to leave upon reaching the end of his/her obligatory service and decide to stay much longer.

That said, the feeling that people are somehow abusing the system by leaving at the end of the minimum time is not uncommon.

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Offline jwtg

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #72 on: November 04, 2012, 21:04:07 »
I wasn't referring to Canada in my quote, but yes you are correct under the Criminal Code, military police are peace officers. Contrary to here.
I guess my point is that I'm making a distinction between NCM MPs and commissioned MPs.  I know that the RCMP make this distinction when considering applicants.  Commissioned MPOs do not qualify for lateral.  It's worth looking into whether or not MPO would make you eligible for a lateral application with whichever service you're interested in.

The point here is that you can't generalize MPs.  MP and MPO are very different. 

Offline Brihard

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #73 on: November 04, 2012, 21:54:33 »
For anybody who thinks that it is wrong for somebody to serve the minimum time and then leave, it is not. Our system is designed that way. If the intent was to keep people in longer, the obligatory service period would be lengthened to that longer period. A commitment to the current minimum is sufficient. Somebody may join with the intent to serve until CRA and then decide otherwise, or join with the intent to leave upon reaching the end of his/her obligatory service and decide to stay much longer.

That said, the feeling that people are somehow abusing the system by leaving at the end of the minimum time is not uncommon.

In many instances I would agree. I have no problem with those who discover, on taking an honest stab at it, that it's not for them. Such is a call made in good faith on their part and I wish anyone well who gave it a real shot and only experientially found it's not for them.

But such policies are made almost actuarially. Yes, we know some people will decide to milk the system, and that others will do their 35, and that many will leave somewhat before a full career but not on obligatory service + a day. The fact that it's 'written in' to the policy as something we understand and accept isn't what I or, I think, others take issue with. My issue is with those who from the very outset have no intention of service beyond that needed to give them the most expedient ride they can get out of it. Because in those instances the *ethic* of service is lacking. It's a burden and an onus that they must bear out to get to what they really want. Maybe that just bothers me a bit.

I also understand the difference between what I hold as my own opinion, and what a broader idea of what is right or wrong may be. And I certainly don't mistake my opinion of it as 'wrong' as having any regulatory or statutory weight. I simply won't wish any good fortune on anyone looking from the outset to use ROTP as a teat to be milked dry and then walked away from as soon as they're able. We'll have to agree to disagree on this.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Loachman

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Re: Applying from outside Canada (Merged)
« Reply #74 on: November 04, 2012, 22:48:30 »
Fair enough, but for most of the members here that have been to corners and have done and seen terrible things during their dedication to Canada, it's insulting that all that is in your mind is to take advantage of your dual-citizenship... expect to get subsidized education, fulfill your Obligatory Service only to flee back to your Overseas lair and become a police officer with disillusioned thoughts of how you're going to get there.

Like it or not, there is nothing wrong with he wants to do.

Further to this, I noticed, during my Pilot training, that those candidates who intended to fly transport aircraft so that they could bail for an airline job as soon as they had completed the minimum obligatory service washed out to a man. I was one of many who derived some measure of pleasure from that. I ascribe their failures to poor motivation.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 23:01:51 by Loachman »