Author Topic: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS  (Read 470927 times)

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Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1675 on: March 13, 2019, 12:22:20 »
Thanks for all the good info and insight Gentleman - much appreciated.

Could either of you ever envision a CH-148 embarking on an APOV with this full Mark 48 torpedo compliment and performing ASW work?

Probably not as you would most likely need a torpedo magazine and other equipment and there's no requirement given its mission.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline DetectiveMcNulty

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1676 on: March 13, 2019, 15:20:44 »
I'd be pretty impressed if a Mk-48 could be dropped from a Cyclone.  ;D

Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1677 on: March 13, 2019, 15:23:15 »
I'd be pretty impressed if a Mk-48 could be dropped from a Cyclone.  ;D

We need a bigger helicopter. ;D
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline DetectiveMcNulty

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1678 on: March 13, 2019, 15:24:23 »
I wouldn't put it past us to try...I mean weren't we the first to land these giant helicopters on little ships?  ;D

Cheers


Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1679 on: March 13, 2019, 15:31:37 »
Bigger Chopper?  Nema problema!



BAe Royal Navy Type 26 Frigate at DSEi 2013 – helicopter deck with Chinook

https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2013/09/dsei-2013-highlights-type-26-global-combat-ship/bae-royal-navy-type-26-frigate-at-dsei-2013-helicopter-deck-with-chinook/
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

Offline Uzlu

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1680 on: March 13, 2019, 15:45:25 »

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1681 on: March 13, 2019, 17:33:37 »
No way can a CH-148 carry a Mk48 (on a weapon station - slung, maybe)...you mean 46?

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1682 on: March 13, 2019, 19:23:06 »
You can probably load a 48 on a 148 ... as long as you are not planning on taking off.   ;D

Offline Colin P

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1683 on: March 13, 2019, 20:04:29 »
Twice the weight of a WWII Type 91 aerial torpedo.

Offline Czech_pivo

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1684 on: March 14, 2019, 08:02:26 »
No way can a CH-148 carry a Mk48 (on a weapon station - slung, maybe)...you mean 46?

Yes.....my passion once again comes to the forefront of my knowledge and understanding.....

So the answer is basically 'no', the CH-148's will not ever be used for ASW work and be fully armed with MK-46's, on an AOPV.

Can I ask this question?  Why not buy another 8 or 9 CH-149's and arm them with some door guns and station them on the AOPV?  Use them exclusively on the AOPV, for ice berg nav, SAR, transport, etc, instead of rotating CCG helo's and Ch-148's on and off the AOPV's.  We already are equipped with the CH-149's and I think that we are actually ordering a few more now.  Add to that order another 8 or 9.

Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1685 on: March 14, 2019, 08:09:17 »
Yes.....my passion once again comes to the forefront of my knowledge and understanding.....

So the answer is basically 'no', the CH-148's will not ever be used for ASW work and be fully armed with MK-46's, on an AOPV.

Can I ask this question?  Why not buy another 8 or 9 CH-149's and arm them with some door guns and station them on the AOPV?  Use them exclusively on the AOPV, for ice berg nav, SAR, transport, etc, instead of rotating CCG helo's and Ch-148's on and off the AOPV's.  We already are equipped with the CH-149's and I think that we are actually ordering a few more now.  Add to that order another 8 or 9.


Costs is the biggest factor, we can do anything we want with enough money.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

كافر

Offline Colin P

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1686 on: March 14, 2019, 10:05:08 »
Considering the number of lesser naval vessels we will have that our helicopter capable. It makes sense to purchase a number of Cyclone helicopters without the ASW suite for all the other tasks. Even if it means reducing the number of Griffons flying. We are going to need more Maritime helicopters in the future, just not for ASW work.

Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1687 on: March 14, 2019, 10:30:08 »
That would be the H92 SuperHawk airframe, but I have a feeling that the Cyclone has completely different electronics and machinery, even without the ASW and surveillance kit installed.

https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/superhawk/

Offline Colin P

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1688 on: March 14, 2019, 10:56:08 »
In a perfect world we would have them setup to accept the ASW suite with as little modification as possible, what it would do is reduce flight hours on ASW airframes and give us spare airframe that could be fitted out with ASW to replace a crashed or damaged airframe.

Offline Colin P

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1689 on: March 14, 2019, 11:12:12 »
Feb 21 the "keel" is laid for AOPs #3

Offline LoboCanada

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1690 on: March 14, 2019, 11:46:15 »
Considering the number of lesser naval vessels we will have that our helicopter capable. It makes sense to purchase a number of Cyclone helicopters without the ASW suite for all the other tasks. Even if it means reducing the number of Griffons flying. We are going to need more Maritime helicopters in the future, just not for ASW work.

I like the thought. Sikorsky has introduced new variants of the H-92 (I know its not the same) as well. Perhaps a medium-lift tactical utility version?

What would the adv/dis of hypothetically moving the Griffon to almost exclusive SAR/medevac work and move over to a utility CH-148 for everything else? Same as others use the Superpuma for?

Offline LoboCanada

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1691 on: March 15, 2019, 11:20:28 »
Another thought (brain cells must be working this yr), has there been any thought to have AOPS variants?

Perhaps an elongated version that you could land a Chinook on or make into a mini LHD or to fit 2 Cyclones/Griffons? Make a niche capability (icebreaker) into more of a niche - icebreaker LHD?

Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1692 on: March 15, 2019, 12:26:21 »
An enhanced Elint/SIGINT ship could be useful. I don't think I would trust Irving to make an LHD ship that is designed to flood, it might lower itself right to the bottom.


Offline Colin P

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1693 on: March 31, 2019, 00:31:24 »
Engines installed on AOPs #3

Offline Colin P

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1694 on: April 09, 2019, 11:30:52 »
More bits join the centre block of AOPs #3


Offline Swampbuggy

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1695 on: April 09, 2019, 14:37:29 »
Along with the bow of BROOKE.

Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1696 on: April 09, 2019, 15:47:07 »
Seeing the accuracy control folks at work with the modules is pretty cool.  There is very little tolerance for misalignment on all those pipes and other bits and pieces, so pretty impressive when it all fits together.

Offline Loachman

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1697 on: April 09, 2019, 18:01:07 »
Even if it means reducing the number of Griffons flying. We are going to need more Maritime helicopters in the future, just not for ASW work.

Current demand already outstrips availability. What do you want us to stop doing? We could use more Tac Hel right now as well as in the future.

What would the adv/dis of hypothetically moving the Griffon to almost exclusive SAR/medevac work and move over to a utility CH-148 for everything else?

Disadvantages:

Limited cabin space for medevac, especially if self-defence weaponry is mounted. USAF CSAR uses two HH60, both with two GAU-21 .50 cals and preferred to take no more than one patient each, in Afghanistan. They provide their own integral escort capability. US Army uses a single unarmed UH60 with AH64 escort for medevac.

Griffon has limited range and carrying capacity (weight and room) for SAR.

CH148 would be a little large for the escort role. I am also not a fan of the European concept with larger utility machines. To me, the US Army doctrine has always made more sense, and was proven long ago. For agility and survivability, I'd rather have more UH1Y/UH60-sized machines carrying fewer troops each than fewer larger machines carrying more troops each.

Advantages:

None come to mind.

Perhaps an elongated version that you could land a Chinook on or make into a mini LHD or to fit 2 Cyclones/Griffons?

For what purpose? And neither Griffon's nor Chinook's blades fold (practically, at least - which is why "we" elected to blow a lot of money to build large hangar additions to fit Griffons, after considering various nutty proposals). This "elongated" AOPS version would need a pretty big hangar for a Chinook, or two Griffons.

Offline Colin P

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1698 on: April 09, 2019, 18:36:33 »
One option would be to have one leased helicopter and crew on the Astreix to provide logistical support to the fleet and to ahore.

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1699 on: April 11, 2019, 13:54:21 »
One option would be to have one leased helicopter and crew on the Astreix to provide logistical support to the fleet and to ahore.

Come on, Colin, that’s the mark of an immature, small Navy...certInly no 1st world blue-water Navy would consider such a crazy idea...




...oh, wait...
+100