Author Topic: CH-148 Cyclone Progress  (Read 685132 times)

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1050 on: April 12, 2019, 20:21:14 »
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CH-148 Cyclones Significantly Expand Surveillance Area, RCAF Says

The Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) CH-148 Cyclones by Sikorsky significantly improve upon the surveillance area of the Sikorsky CH-124 Sea Kings, which the RCAF retired late last year, according to RCAF Col. Sid Connor, commander of 12 Wing in Shearwater, Nova Scotia.

"We can see 10 times farther underwater, and the Cyclone's radar and ESM (electronic warfare support measures) capabilities give us a chance to do above water surveillance 10 times greater than before," he said. "The Cyclone can identify contacts for the ship captain. On any given flight, the area you are able to pick up, whether that's identifying narcotics trafficking or unidentified smaller vessels, is 10 times greater, or 100 times as much area."

Two Cyclones are deployed — one aboard the Royal Canadian Navy's Halifax-class frigate, HMCS Regina, in the Middle East, to support Operation Artemis, the Canadian portion of CTF 150 — a multi-nation effort to battle terrorists and illicit flows of drugs, weapons, and people. The other deployed CH-148 is aboard the HMCS Toronto, in the Black Sea in support of Operation Reassurance — the Canadian contingent of NATO European deterrence efforts in Central and Eastern Europe.

In February, the Royal Canadian Navy accepted delivery of the 17th CH-148 of a planned acquisition of 28 by 2021 to replace the venerable Sea King anti-submarine warfare helicopters.

The February delivery marked the ninth CH-148 Block 2 aircraft in the field. The Royal Canadian Navy has accepted two Block 2 Cyclones and seven upgrades of 15 Block 1 Cyclones to the Block 2 configuration. Sikorsky has four of those 17 CH-148s and is upgrading them to Block 2 configuration.

Block 2 Cyclones include situational awareness enhancements, an upgraded Northrop Grumman AN/AAR-47(V)2 missile approach warning system, avionics upgrades, and sea state 6 capability.

In addition, operational tests of Block 2.1 are to begin late next year with the possible delivery of the first CH-148 with Block 2.1 in 2021. Block 2.1 upgrades mission systems and sensor integration and increases component time between maintenance. For example, gear boxes are to increase from 600 hours of life to 2,000 hours.

The Cylone's "radar, sonar, and ESM are all connected to online databases, so as they encounter other contacts, the data base grows and the sensors get smarter," Connor said. That experience informs how the RCAF may use the Cyclone against potential adversaries, he said. The RCAF Lockheed Martin CP-140 Aurora aircraft has a similar data learning profile.

Powered by two General Electric CT7-8A7 turboshaft engines, the CH-148's advertised maximum speed is 155 knots, 10 percent faster than the Sea King, according to the Royal Canadian Air Force.

The Cyclone is to perform a variety of missions, including surveillance, utility, search-and-rescue, and tactical transport for national and international security efforts. Incorporating flaw tolerance and engine burst containment, the helicopter also has an aluminum and composite airframe that has lightning-strike and high-intensity radio frequency pulse protection, the Royal Canadian Air Force said.

Members of the Royal Canadian Air Force praised the performance of the CH-148 after it returned in January from its first international deployment aboard HMCS Ville de Québec, in support of Operation Reassurance.
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Offline OceanBonfire

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1051 on: April 30, 2019, 15:30:14 »
Quote
It’s a Navy first! Last week a #RCAF Cyclone helicopter was working with a #RCNavy ORCA class vessel off Victoria #BC. #MARPAC

https://twitter.com/MARPAC_FMARP/status/1123251487012839424








Quote
Check out these images from April 19 of a Canadian CH-148 Cyclone from Canadian frigate HMCS Toronto conducting the first ever Cyclone torpedo drop by an operational crew at sea to bring the helo to full Anti-Submarine Warfare status while in the Med with #SNMG2.

https://twitter.com/NATO_MARCOM/status/1123221026396082177





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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1052 on: April 30, 2019, 23:44:33 »
Nice pics!  Love the one of the torp falling.
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Offline Colin P

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1053 on: May 01, 2019, 12:02:52 »
What the device in the foreground sticking out of the ship? Some sort of launcher?

Offline Sub-normal

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1054 on: May 01, 2019, 13:24:19 »
What the device in the foreground sticking out of the ship? Some sort of launcher?
  That is one of the surface launch torpedo tubes.

Offline Spencer100

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1055 on: August 15, 2019, 22:13:33 »
Question.  From another forum.  The Cyclone can't land on water like the Sea King?  I would say no. But just checking. 

Is that a big loss of a capability?  Was it used much?  I remember seeing Prince William do it in a Canadian Sea King a few years ago.

Offline Baz

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1056 on: August 16, 2019, 06:41:36 »
Question.  From another forum.  The Cyclone can't land on water like the Sea King?  I would say no. But just checking. 

Is that a big loss of a capability?  Was it used much?  I remember seeing Prince William do it in a Canadian Sea King a few years ago.

No, the Cyclone can't.

The Sea King couldn't land on water operationally.  It was for emergencies.  The pilot's were trained to get the aircraft back off the water in some cases, or to shut down and hopefully not catch a tip to facilitate crew egress .

What Prince William did was called waterbird training.  It was discontinued some years before the retirement as it ate a lot of hours.

Offline Underway

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1057 on: August 16, 2019, 09:37:49 »
Question.  From another forum.  The Cyclone can't land on water like the Sea King?  I would say no. But just checking. 

No, the Cyclone can't.

Is an emergency landing considered a type of crash?  The Cyclone does have three airbags that inflate (can be inflated?) upon an emergency water landing.  One on each side of the cockpit and another under the rear fuselage.  They only designed to keep the helo floating upright long enough for crew egress.

Offline Baz

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1058 on: August 16, 2019, 11:02:19 »
Is an emergency landing considered a type of crash?  The Cyclone does have three airbags that inflate (can be inflated?) upon an emergency water landing.  One on each side of the cockpit and another under the rear fuselage.  They only designed to keep the helo floating upright long enough for crew egress.

Most if not all overwater helicopters have emergency flotation systems, including the Sea King which had one in each sponsor.

The Sea King had a "boat shaped" hull and could attempt to take off after a water landing, if the crew was trained (hence waterboard training).  For the Cyclone a subsequent take-off or long term towing should not be attempted.

Normally emergency landings and crashes are different.  An emergency landing is under control and a crash isn't.  In the case of a crash it is unlikely the aircraft remains upright and the bags can be deployed... you just try to get out.

The Cyclone bags can be deployed by the pilots or will automatically deploy upon water entry if armed, which is not normally armed.  It's armed as part of the pre-ditching procedures and for over water take-offs and landings.

Also significantly the Cyclone life raft is mounted externally which can be deployed from the cockpit, again like most if not all modern overwater helicopters.  The Sea King raft wasn't... it was next to the troop seat and had to be dragged to the cargo door and manually deployed.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1059 on: August 27, 2019, 17:30:20 »
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 18:39:52 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline Baz

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1060 on: October 08, 2019, 10:20:38 »
A picture of the Cyclone landing on the aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth prior to her arrival in Halifax.  Shared from Trident News under the Fair Dealing exception of the Canadian Copyright Act.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1061 on: October 08, 2019, 16:01:26 »
Maybe it's just me but...I find she looks bigger in pics than she does in person.  Saw one close to a NH90 though and the 148 looks slightly bigger to me.

Haven't seen much in way of news from the HFX deployment...
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Offline Underway

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1062 on: October 08, 2019, 17:04:36 »
Maybe it's just me but...I find she looks bigger in pics than she does in person.  Saw one close to a NH90 though and the 148 looks slightly bigger to me.

Haven't seen much in way of news from the HFX deployment...

Yes, volume and tonnage a Cyclone seems about 20% larger

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1063 on: February 19, 2020, 17:44:48 »
Bluedrop gets Sikorsky contract for training on Canadian Maritime Helicopter Project

Bluedrop Training & Simulation Inc., a subsidiary of Bluedrop Performance Learning Inc., has renewed its contract with Sikorsky, a Lockheed Martin Company, to provide instructors and training courseware for pilots and maintainers for Canada’s CH-148 Cyclone maritime helicopters. The agreement extends the services that Bluedrop is providing to the program until March 2024. The estimated value of the contract is US$29.5 million.

“This agreement will ensure the continuation of our training services for the RCAF aircrew and maintenance personnel at 12 Wing Shearwater,” said Jean-Claude Siew, Bluedrop executive vice-president, Technology and Simulation. “We thank Sikorsky for its continued trust in Bluedrop and our Halifax-based training team.”

Bluedrop will initially provide up o 47 highly-skilled technician and aircrew instructors, simulator operators and training program support personnel for the 406 Operational and Training Squadron located at 12 Wing Shearwater in Nova Scotia. The Cyclone training suite includes two flight simulators, two operational mission simulators, six mission procedures trainers and two aircraft maintenance trainers — supplemented by several maintenance part task trainers.

Sikorsky leads an industry team that has delivered 19 of 28 CH-148 Cyclone maritime helicopters to the Royal Canadian Air Force. Bluedrop is part of Sikorsky’s In Service Support team that is training and supporting Cyclone aircrew and technicians to achieve high operational readiness.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1064 on: February 28, 2020, 18:09:12 »
CAF FB Page Article Link

The 20th of 28 CH-148 Cyclone helicopters 🚁 arrived in Shearwater earlier this week. To celebrate, here’s a video of its arrival.
Canada’s CH-148 is a maritime helicopter that conducts anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare, as well as search and rescue operations. The CH-148 Cyclone can also conduct utility transport missions in support of national and international security efforts.

Recent deployments:
▪️Cyclone 822 is currently deployed with HMCS Fredericton since 20 January 2020
▪️Cyclone 823 was deployed with HMCS Halifax (551 hours were flown between July 2019 and its return in January 2020)
▪️Cyclone 814 deployed to Newfoundland on Op LENTUS on 20-23 January 2020
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Offline Colin P

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Offline Colin P

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1066 on: May 22, 2020, 18:09:20 »
This sucks, but the prudence is understandable. Hopefully the cause and the solution is found and done quickly. https://twitter.com/AngusTopshee/status/1263514442312101890/photo/1

Offline LoboCanada

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1067 on: May 25, 2020, 12:33:37 »
British Navy conducts test-fire of new Martlet missile from Wildcat HMA Mk2 helicopter

https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2020/may-2020/8473-british-navy-conducts-test-fire-of-new-m.html

Quote
The Martlet missile offers a unique capability to defeat asymmetrical and terrorist threats in the littoral environment, such as Fast Inshore Attack Craft (FIAC), RIBs or even jet skis. The precision laser beam riding guidance concept of LMM and the accurate launcher stabilization has been demonstrated for the first time in a UK MoD Sponsored TDP with several firings from a T23 Frigate off the Pembrokeshire coast at an operationally representative remote-controlled FIAC target. It has a weight of 13kg, travels at Mach 1.5, has a range exceeding 6 km, and an immediate launch capability.



This possible to do with a Cyclone?

Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1068 on: May 25, 2020, 12:44:14 »
British Navy conducts test-fire of new Martlet missile from Wildcat HMA Mk2 helicopter

https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2020/may-2020/8473-british-navy-conducts-test-fire-of-new-m.html



This possible to do with a Cyclone?

Not currently. An air to surface missile is on the “to do” list.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1069 on: May 25, 2020, 15:09:23 »
British Navy conducts test-fire of new Martlet missile from Wildcat HMA Mk2 helicopter

https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2020/may-2020/8473-british-navy-conducts-test-fire-of-new-m.html



This possible to do with a Cyclone?

They had me at 'will destroy jet skis.' I hate those things #pi**edoffkayaker :)
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Offline Underway

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1070 on: May 26, 2020, 08:01:30 »
Not currently. An air to surface missile is on the “to do” list.

IIRC the attachment points for the helo are universal, so where you place the torp you can place any helo carried weapon system.  I know CANSOFCOM's ears perked up when they heard that.  So quick huddle troops... "get CANSOFCOM super interested and they will pay for helo upgrades....".  I wouldn't be the first time.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1071 on: May 26, 2020, 08:08:31 »
Attachment points are not the same as USB plug and play - still sensor and control system integration involved, to say nothing of airworthiness testing.

All costly, and all demand personnel resources that are in short supply.
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Offline Baz

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1072 on: May 26, 2020, 10:21:03 »
IIRC the attachment points for the helo are universal, so where you place the torp you can place any helo carried weapon system.  I know CANSOFCOM's ears perked up when they heard that.  So quick huddle troops... "get CANSOFCOM super interested and they will pay for helo upgrades....".  I wouldn't be the first time.

The BRU (Bomb Release Unit) is universal, the wiring isn't.  However, most if not all surface weapons the Cyclone would be considered for mounts a rack to the BRU, and then that rack or rail fires the weapon.  You can see in the picture above there is a five missile launcher on each weapon station for the Martlet.

Historically there has been a problem in that each weapon type required a separate wire bundle and interfaces.  Some need seeker head guidance, some coordinates, some current GPS position, some a video feed etc, etc.  Torpedoes need different stuff.  There is a STANAG (1760) that is intended to make all NATO air launched weapons use the same wiring standard to make it easier to integrate weapons.  However, the MK-54 Torpedo doesn't follow it.  The MK-54 uses the same wires as the 46 but the are repurposed to different electrical formats to enable a broader range of selections.  This requires modifications to the Stores Management Computer.

We integrated the AGM-65 into a version of the MDMS used on the Cyclone for the Peru H-2 Sea Sprite.  It did not use STANAG-1760 but instead the legacy Maverick interface.  The Maverick uses the LAU-117 launch rail and electrical interface (or the LAU-88 for triple rails).  Raytheon produces a version of the LAU-117 called the Dual Mode Launcher that can use either legacy Maverick interface or STANAG-1760 (http://www.midkiff.cz/obj/firma_produkt_priloha_140_soubor.pdf). Maverick is (or was?  SupersonicMax?) in service with the CF-18 using legacy LAU-117 rails.

To the best of my knowledge Martlet is not STANAG-1760 compliant, and needs a laser designator (which also means it would need seeker head control to get the head on the designation).  This would also require a new EO turret for the Cyclone as the current SAFIRE-3 does not have a designator, and the integration and wiring to the missile.  Ironically the last version of the Sea King did have a laser (MX-15) but the interlock was hardwired off (laser safety integration on an aircraft is a big deal).

It is understood at a broad level what it would take to make the Cyclone Stores Management Computer and wiring compatible with STANAG-1760, but there is no plan to do so at this time.

Edited to add: Just getting the missile on the aircraft is not everything.  Then you need safe release trials.  Then ground handling safety procedures.  Possible laser safety procedures. Then weapons employment and release procedures.  Then ship safe storage (which historically has been an issue when discussed).  Then load and download procedures at sea, and how they interact with hot fuel and crew change.  Then launch and recover procedures, remembering that the hot missile would be pointed directly at the hangar at some point, unless you did an yaw'd launch and recovery, turning before pulling the pins (how exactly would you do that, connect the guide winch?).  See USS Forrestal at Yankee Station (and John McCain's interesting involvement) where one of the contributing factors is they pulled the pins before getting to the cat to speed up the launch...
+400 « Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 10:31:18 by Baz »