Author Topic: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]  (Read 534699 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline muddyrug

  • Guest
  • *
  • 250
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #50 on: January 18, 2009, 23:44:28 »
alright thanks

Offline tyciol

  • Curious person
  • Banned
  • New Member
  • *
  • 400
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 26
  • AOs can't stop all carcinogens in time
    • My personal journal
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #51 on: January 20, 2009, 17:43:24 »
So ROTP is only something available to people who aren't serving the DND in any way? Could someone apply for it if they had joined and then not renewed their terms of service and switched back to civilian life then wanted to get in as an officer?
-Thank you

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 435,945
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,572
  • Crewman
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #52 on: January 20, 2009, 17:52:37 »
So ROTP is only something available to people who aren't serving the DND in any way?

Correct.

Could someone apply for it if they had joined and then not renewed their terms of service and switched back to civilian life then wanted to get in as an officer?

A rather convoluted process, but I suppose one could.  If you had done some reading on these topics, you would know that there are several different programs, that include programs/plans for NCMs to apply for and get a Degree, as well as plans that would permit them to apply for and be Commissioned.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline Piper

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 10,560
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 512
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #53 on: January 20, 2009, 18:32:54 »
So ROTP is only something available to people who aren't serving the DND in any way?

No.

Reservists can CT to the regs via ROTP. It happens all the time. Now, reg force NCM's who want to become an officer and get their schooling subsidised would have to apply for the UTPNCM program. There are also reg force and reserve NCM's who become officer's without a degree via the CFR process (this applies to higher ranking NCM's who have alot of experience and time in).

Offline oldandgrey

  • Guest
  • *
  • 750
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #54 on: March 19, 2009, 12:30:09 »
UTs program is not the only route you can use. check out the CEOTP as well, this program is open to NCM and Civics.  what you should do is read up CFAOs 9-13 for UTP-NCM and the canforgen on the CEOTP.

for you to apply as a UT you must be at a min rank of cpl before your file reach the board. CEOTP has no min rank at this point.


Offline mr.rhtuner

  • New Member
  • **
  • 590
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 48
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #55 on: April 01, 2009, 02:16:42 »
Hey guys, I've searched and had a few questions answered but still have one left that I'd like to get help on.

Let's say a NCM Master Corporal or Sergeant want to become an officer, are the only options:

1) Release from the military and complete a university degree then re-enlist and
2) Apply and get into the RMC school and become an officer

I've just been thinking after numerous years a person puts into getting that rank, is there no way easier to apply for being an officer???


I've looked through the CF website and don't see a easier way of getting into the officer program.


Sorry if this has been posted, I couldn't find the direct answer to this

 :cdn:

Offline Rowshambow

  • Member
  • ****
  • 455
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 191
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #56 on: April 01, 2009, 03:10:15 »
There are lots (OK a few) ways to do it.

1) CFR-Commision From the Ranks, you should be min Sgt but will accept outstanding MCpl's
2) CEOTP- Continuing Education Officer Training Program, you only need to be a Cpl, and have to finish a degree (on your own time) before your IE is finished
3) UTPNCM- University Training Plan NCM, Cpl's and above, apply to go to school and then trade training in summer etc, kinda like ROTP, can go to civi or RMC
4) SCP- Special Commissioning Plan, Cpl's and up, once you have a degree (we see more people coming in with degree's now) then you can go Officer after you do the NCM time.

Anyways, if you look on the recruiting site, many of these should be posted, as that's where I got it from when I looked into it years ago. Or ask a BPSO!
Let's play hide and go f^*k yourself...I'll go hide!

aesop081

  • Guest
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #57 on: April 01, 2009, 04:57:45 »
For some, NCM to Officer is hardly considered "advancement".

CFR has its own special cosiderations and is largely designed for a senior NCM to move into a related officer trade (i.e. sup tech to LOG O or AES Op to ACSO......).

Offline QuitBreakingEverything

  • New Member
  • **
  • 1,110
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 33
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #58 on: April 01, 2009, 10:34:33 »
2 quick questions on the CFR since it came up in the post, and I've only heard bits and pieces about it before:

1. Does a CFR still require a University Degree?
2. Does a CFR start as a 2Lt? Or are they moved to a rank more fitting of their experience? Or would this be situational?

I've always found this concept to be interesting but I honestly don't know a lot about it, and it's not mentioned a lot on the boards.

Offline dapaterson

    Mostly Harmless.

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 429,835
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 16,098
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #59 on: April 01, 2009, 10:53:29 »
2 quick questions on the CFR since it came up in the post, and I've only heard bits and pieces about it before:

1. Does a CFR still require a University Degree?
2. Does a CFR start as a 2Lt? Or are they moved to a rank more fitting of their experience? Or would this be situational?

I've always found this concept to be interesting but I honestly don't know a lot about it, and it's not mentioned a lot on the boards.

CFAO 11-9 - Commissioning from the Ranks - should answer most of your questions.

Quote
ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS
5.     To be eligible for nomination under the CFRP a member shall:
     a.   be a Canadian citizen;

     b.   have a minimum of 10 years service in the Canadian Forces (CF)
          Regular Force by the closing date for nomination;

     c.   be of the substantive rank of sergeant (Sgt)/petty officer second
          class (P02) or above;

     d.   have at least the minimum required years of service remaining to
          compulsory retirement age (CRA) for the proposed officer military
          occupation classification (MOC) by 31 Dec of the year in which
          the selection board is convened. This minimum number of years
          will be specified in the annual competition message;

     e.   for the appropriate officer MOC have a minimum medical category
          awarded/confirmed within the 12 months prior to the closing date
          for nomination;

     f.   achieve acceptable standing in the General Classification (GC)
          test administered by the Base Personnel Selection Officer (BPSO);

     g.   possess a Grade 12 diploma (Secondary V in Quebec) or an
          equivalency certificate based on education equivalency testing;
          and

     h.   if a MARE 44 nominee, provide proof of acceptance to a sub-MOC
          approved technology programme at an institution identified below;

          (1)  MARE 44B(MS) -- institution(s) will be specified in the
               annual competition message,

          (2)  MARE 44C(CS) -- Camosun College (Pre MORPS only), and

          (3)  MARE 44D(NC) -- Fisheries and Marine Institute of Memorial
               University of Newfoundland.


CFAO 11-6, Commissioning and Promotion Policy - Officers - Regular Force, also applies:

Quote
14.    CFRP.  A candidate selected for commissioning as a GSO under the
CFRP, whose rank is warrant officer or below, and who has not completed the
Senior Leaders Course (SLC) will be commissioned in the rank of second
lieutenant with simultaneous promotion to the rank of lieutenant effective
the date of successful completion of the required basic officer training.
A candidate selected for commissioning as a GSO under the CFRP, whose rank
is warrant officer or below and who has attained the SLC qualification will
be commissioned in the rank of second lieutenant with simultaneous
promotion to the rank of lieutenant prior to the commencement of the
required basic officer training.  The commissioning date will be set by
NDHQ.  Those CFRP candidates who are required to complete their MOC
training prior to attending the basic officer training will be commissioned
effective the date of successful completion of the basic officer training
but will have their seniority adjusted to the basic officer training
graduation date for the other candidates on their CFRP intake.


21.    A candidate selected for commissioning as a GSO under the CFRP, whose
substantive or acting (lacks qualification) rank is master warrant officer
or chief warrant officer, will be commissioned in the rank of second
lieutenant with simultaneous promotion to the rank of captain.  The
commissioning date will be set by NDHQ.  Effective date and seniority date
will be the date of commissioning for those CFRP officers commissioned
after 1 Jan 81.  Those CFRP candidates who are required to undertake their
MOC training prior to commissioning will be commissioned on successful
completion of the required MOC training with seniority adjusted to that of
the other candidates on their CFRP intake.


Both references should be read in their entirety to fully understand the processes that are to be followed.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2009, 10:56:10 by dapaterson »
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

Offline mr.rhtuner

  • New Member
  • **
  • 590
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 48
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #60 on: April 01, 2009, 15:44:53 »
There are lots (OK a few) ways to do it.

1) CFR-Commision From the Ranks, you should be min Sgt but will accept outstanding MCpl's
2) CEOTP- Continuing Education Officer Training Program, you only need to be a Cpl, and have to finish a degree (on your own time) before your IE is finished
3) UTPNCM- University Training Plan NCM, Cpl's and above, apply to go to school and then trade training in summer etc, kinda like ROTP, can go to civi or RMC
4) SCP- Special Commissioning Plan, Cpl's and up, once you have a degree (we see more people coming in with degree's now) then you can go Officer after you do the NCM time.

Anyways, if you look on the recruiting site, many of these should be posted, as that's where I got it from when I looked into it years ago. Or ask a BPSO!


Thank you for the information!  :)

Offline oldandgrey

  • Guest
  • *
  • 750
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #61 on: April 06, 2009, 09:09:31 »
Here is some add info

UTP-NCM (UTs) read CFAO 9-13.
info on CEOTP (CTs) can be found on the canforgen and it will lead you to more info on the subject.

 :cdn:




Offline tyciol

  • Curious person
  • Banned
  • New Member
  • *
  • 400
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 26
  • AOs can't stop all carcinogens in time
    • My personal journal
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #62 on: April 13, 2009, 22:54:47 »
No.

Reservists can CT to the regs via ROTP. It happens all the time. Now, reg force NCM's who want to become an officer and get their schooling subsidised would have to apply for the UTPNCM program. There are also reg force and reserve NCM's who become officer's without a degree via the CFR process (this applies to higher ranking NCM's who have alot of experience and time in).
Ah okay, a bit in conflict with the previous person's reply, but I like your answer better :) So would joining the reserves to gain experience while one does other things to increase one's viability (like improve grades, volunteer, etc) be a good idea?
-Thank you

Offline The Dunnminator

  • New Member
  • **
  • 1,640
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 41
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #63 on: April 13, 2009, 23:11:18 »
Ah okay, a bit in conflict with the previous person's reply, but I like your answer better :) So would joining the reserves to gain experience while one does other things to increase one's viability (like improve grades, volunteer, etc) be a good idea?


That's what I did and I honestly think that it is the best thing to do, it has helped me a lot so far and I am sure that it helped me get in because of the valuable experience and it also gives you the opportunity to show that you can be competent and get good course reports which I am sure impact a lot the decision of the selection board. it also gives you an idea of how the military life works and you,ll see if you like it.

Offline Eye In The Sky

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 210,595
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,447
    • VP INTERNATIONAL
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #64 on: April 14, 2009, 10:21:19 »
UTs program is not the only route you can use. check out the CEOTP as well, this program is open to NCM and Civics.  what you should do is read up CFAOs 9-13 for UTP-NCM and the canforgen on the CEOTP.

for you to apply as a UT you must be at a min rank of cpl before your file reach the board. CEOTP has no min rank at this point.

I don't believe the part I've bolded is true.

From ADM (HR-MIL) Instructions 09/05, Para 4.2  (DIN/IntraNet Link and Internet Link):

4.2 Eligibility

4.2.1 Civilian applicants must:

- Be eligible for enrolment in the Reg F in accordance with QR&O 6.01 and existing CF enrolment policy
- Possess at least a High School Leaving Certificate in an academic program leading to acceptance at a Canadian university in an initial degree program meeting CF requirements

4.2.2 Regular Force NCM applicants must

- Apply for the CEOTP
- be of substantive Corporal rank or above
- Be recommended for commissioning by their Commanding Officer and chain of command
- Meet university acceptance prerequisites as for civilian applicants


4.2.3 Primary Reserve officer and NCM applicants must

- Component transfer to the Regular Force upon acceptance into the CEOTP
- Meet university acceptance prerequisites as for civilian applicants

Note: The CEOTP is a career program, and is not open to members with permanent Medical Employment Restrictions.

Do I love my job?  No.

But does it afford me the ability to go on lavish vacations and buy anything I want?  Also no.

Offline oldandgrey

  • Guest
  • *
  • 750
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #65 on: May 14, 2009, 09:46:27 »
Well, I learn something new...

And thats why we said...dig it up and read it including the ref....policies changes all the time...

Thank you for updating my info

 :piper:

matwxx

  • Guest
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #66 on: August 05, 2009, 18:08:57 »
Hello All,

I am a graduate from BCIT's Aircraft Maintenance Engineer diploma program. I would like to join the air force under officer entry plan, but was told that the plan is no longer available this year. Believe me, I have read many threads, but just dont see any case related to mine. Continue... I applied Aviation Systems Technician under the NCM plan. Here comes my questions:

1) If CF hired me as NCM this year, and I wish to transfer to OFFICER plan next year, am I required to complete UTPNCM or CEOTP, or do I have to quit the job and reapply as OFFICER?

2) My second question is related to contract, do the NCM and OFFICER plans both require to sign contract of duty due to subsidized education?

Offline ModlrMike

    : Riding time again... woohooo!

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 211,329
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,735
    • Canadian Association of Physician Assistants
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #67 on: August 05, 2009, 18:54:15 »
The short answer is that in order to enter as a DEO (Direct Entry Officer) you need a degree, not a diploma. If you were to apply to compete a degree then UTPNCM would be the route to take. There are other options available, but the also require you have a degree. You would no have to release and rejoin in order to commission.

Any subsidized education programme has with it the requirement to serve in order to pay back the subsidization. Obligatory service requirements are the same for everybody regardless of rank; that is two months of service for every month of subsidized education.
WARNING: The consumption of alcohol may create the illusion that you are tougher,smarter, faster and better looking than most people.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. (H.L. Mencken 1919)
Zero tolerance is the politics of the lazy. All it requires is that you do nothing and ban everything.

matwxx

  • Guest
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #68 on: August 05, 2009, 22:01:31 »
Thanks for the reply. Actually I had contacted the recruit centre before and I was told to be able to apply OFFICER plan with my diploma next september 2010, since BCIT is treated an an university nowadays. When I asked the agent, he mentioned about unit change application. But from the forum, the answers are into UTPNCM or CEOTP route.

Therefore, please clarify. Thanks very much.

Offline Breacher41

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 17,601
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,080
  • Per Pietas et Virtus
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #69 on: August 06, 2009, 01:42:56 »
If you have a diploma, its a diploma it is NOT a degree and thus not eligible for DEO.

If you have a degree from BCIT then you have a degree and is eligible for DEO.
هناك [هس تو] كنت يستعصي طريق

Offline Nauticus

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 7,595
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 397
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #70 on: August 06, 2009, 04:49:44 »
To elaborate further:
2 years = diploma

4 years = degree.
"Fate guides who will; who won't, it drags."

matwxx

  • Guest
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #71 on: August 06, 2009, 05:20:30 »
Thanks for the answers,

I might have mistype few words and confused you all. The officer plan I am referring is ROTP, not DEO. What are the difference between the 2?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 05:46:34 by matwxx »

Offline tree hugger

  • Hug a Betula allegeniensis.
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 5,955
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 450
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #72 on: August 06, 2009, 07:07:57 »
I think the big question for you is not whether or not you want to go officer but what occupation do you want?  It sounds like you are well set up to enter one of the techy air force trades....
Always behave like a duck.   Remain cool and unruffled on the surface but paddle like the dickens underneath.

Offline the_girlfriend

  • Member
  • ****
  • 5,140
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 215
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #73 on: August 06, 2009, 07:21:51 »
The officer plan I am referring is ROTP, not DEO. What are the difference between the 2?

As written on the CF recruiting website
http://www.forces.ca/html/index.aspx?lang=en

Direct Entry Officer (DEO)
As a minimum, applicants to the Regular Force must have an undergraduate degree in a suitable discipline. A student currently in the final year of a degree program is also eligible to apply. Recruiting bonuses are offered to applicants who are trained in occupations for which the CF have an urgent need, such as physicians and dentists.

Regular Officer Training Plan (ROTP)
This plan is designed to educate and develop for commissioning, selected civilian candidates for service as Regular Forces career officers. Selected candidates are appointed the rank of officer cadet for the period of their subsidization and commissioned subsequent to successful completion of their academic program and requisite military training. Subsidization is carried out at the Royal Military College (RMC) or at an approved Canadian University and/or affiliated College.

there you go...
“Mathematics is the only science where one never knows what one is talking about nor whether what is said is true” Bertrand Russell

"S%&# or get off the pot"

matwxx

  • Guest
Re: University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #74 on: August 06, 2009, 23:24:12 »
Oh, so actually the two's are different plan. I like to stay with my family. Does NCM require to sign any contract for overseas mission?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 05:40:31 by matwxx »