Author Topic: The Great Gun Control Debate  (Read 699898 times)

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Offline Jarnhamar

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The Great Gun Control Debate
« on: January 05, 2003, 18:57:00 »
Does anyone disagree that the 2 billion dollars wasted on registering fire arms could have been better spent, such as giving it to the military for equipment upgrades or whatever?

I heard they want another 79 million dollars for it.

Maybe if we can trick the public into thinking funding the military will somehow effect pro gun control laws or whatever we would have a much better budget.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 14:40:03 by kratz »
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2Lt_Martin

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2003, 19:56:00 »
Agreed it is a waste of money. All I have seen in our local papers (North Bay) are calls for the whole project to be scrapped, and that opinion seems to be National. The claims are that this registry will reduce crime etc.. I don‘t understand how. The UK has had gun control for years, and they still have armed robberies and murders. What the gun registry needs is an injection of common sense not an injection of money.

My two cents...

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2003, 20:15:00 »
Police officers need a warrant to enter a known drug dealers house.
If you register your guns with the police they can legally enter your house with out a warrant to see if it‘s propperly stored and secured.

i find that a little a$$ backwards
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mev

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2003, 14:46:00 »
Here in CB we have per capita the highest ownership of guns in Canada according to some stats. We also have the lowest crime rates in Canada -0.4% against the national average. Almost everybody I know has a rifle or shotgun and hunts.A tradition here on New Years eve is for people to stand outside and fire their shotguns into the air. Again I repeat we have one of the lowest crime rates in Canada if not the lowest. Go figure.
If crime stats are up from the 60‘s, why? We used to be able to buy a gun at Canadian Tire as soon as we turned 16, hunt with an adult at 14. I fired guns at wood piles in my backyard in Pet when I was 12.
In my opinion it is just power projection now with the registry, the Libs have the power and they are using it.  :cdn:  
MEV

rolandstrong

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2003, 11:26:00 »
I find the gun registry a sad statement about our current government administration. A billion bucks to get something like this working, riddled with problems, is tragic. What a waste.

Offline muskrat89

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2003, 11:36:00 »
And lowering crime?? (nULL) - Just imagine what the Country‘s police forces and Crown Prosecutors could have done with a BILLION dollars...

Canada‘s policies are getting goofier all the time - in a bunch of areas. I hope the "silent majority" doesn‘t hold its tongue, much longer...
The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.

Offline sm0ke

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2003, 16:50:00 »
...lol
who wants to run into a drunken Cape Bretoner with a rifle  ;)  

Just kidding. Capers are among the most amiable people in Canada.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2003, 19:24:00 »
Gun laws really stopped the terrorists in 9/11.

Evil will always find a tool to destroy with.
An evil man can kill with a hammer whilist a good man can build a shelter for the homeless. Target the evil man and not the tool.
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Offline nULL

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2003, 20:13:00 »
Yeah, why DOESN‘T the silent majority just "rise up" and resist following all those "mean and unfair" laws? The gun registry might not have been the most wisely executed plan, but the intentions behind it are still good. If you really have a problem with the laws and the regulations that the democratically elected government has put in place, why don‘t you just move?

And no, while gun control had nothing to do with 9/11, you might want to research US foreign policy over the last 30 years; you may want to pay special attention to a car bombing in Beirut in 1985 and an attack on a Sudanese pharmaceutical factory in 1998 (to name a few).

Offline muskrat89

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2003, 23:06:00 »
Move?? Actually, I did :-)  Check my location

I have also stayed active in things such as ANAVETS, and the gun laws, as much as I can, from afar

The US imposed gun laws in Beirut??
The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.

rolandstrong

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2003, 02:59:00 »
Null, I am sure you can pull some conspiracy theory stuff up and throw it at the gun registry discussion (see thread from Ruthlessrandy on Bush)...but I don‘t see the relevance.

The point is that for a billion bucks I am sure we can find some things with good intent that work, like helicopters to save our forces a$$e$. I think that is a lot of cash to throw away at good intentions. Besides, whatever your views on gun laws, the intent of the registry was more to do with getting liberal voters on side than "good causes".

Offline nULL

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2003, 11:27:00 »
Well, it‘s easy to critisize what has been shown to not work; so what would you do? If you knew that the majority of the tax payers wanted some form of effective gun control, how would you have proceeded?

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2003, 12:18:00 »
Police officers, whom i consider subject matter experts on this, have said it will NOT work. It has nothing to do with "gun control". Secondly we spent 240 million on the program before even one gun was registered. Now were up to 2 billion? I can think of some better things to spend 2 billion dollars on instead of forcing people to register their guns so officers can legally enter into their home with out a warrant to see if their gun is locked up OR give some hacker an online shopping list of what guns i have so he doesnt have to waste time looking around.

Null what the ****  are you talking about? US forein policy? A car bomb in beirut? Are you refering to when the americans wernt allowed to have mags on their weapons and some 200 marines died?

If you want effective gun control then you need to put criminals away for longer then they are. People will always have access to weapons. Criminals aren‘t going to buy their guns at walmart. Taking guns away from hunters and collectors would do very little to stop violent crime. Look at buddy who couldnt get his hands on a rifle, he just picked up a crossbow.
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Cycophant

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2003, 13:05:00 »
I‘m the first to admit, I used to be completely supportive of anything that would prohibit gun usage and therefore, in my eyes, reduce crime.

My thoughts took a fairly sudden turn after I deeply researched some of the gun laws and regulations of European nations.  More specifically, nations like Switzerland.

Switzerland has no such "gun laws" to speak of.  Soldiers of the Swiss Army must keep their guns after they leave the military.  Shooting competitions are held around the country almost weekly, and are geared towards youth, adults and the elderly.  Weapons, including automatics, can be bought from the Military.  Up until recently, they didn‘t even require a permit - just proof of Swiss citizenship.

What does all this result in?  Low crime - particularily involving weapons.  Healthy respect for firearms and their power.  Safety from wars (documents recovered from the Nazi government stated that invading Switzerland would pose a lot of difficulty, considering how well-armed and well-trained the average Swiss was).

So why does North America and other areas seem to struggle with gun-related problems?  I feel it comes down to maturity, intelligence and attitude.  Unless the average citizen has these three things, openness towards guns simply wouldn‘t work.

I personally feel Canada would probably do fine under a similiar system as the Swiss.  On the whole, we are a mature and intelligent nation.  However, years of fear-mongering and bias towards anything gun-related has tainted any hope of such a forward outlook in the near future.

deathwing5

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2003, 14:36:00 »
so true. I wanted to bring that up, but feeling lazy i wasnt in the mood for a written fight. In turkey there is no real gun law i can think of, and it‘s fine there, we‘ve had them around for so long. it is about maturity. I dont know why they‘re spending so much for these gun laws.

Offline nULL

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2003, 15:13:00 »
Yeah, ok, so people are the problem; we knew that already. I suppose the problem is that you can‘t control the people; guns are glamorized in video games, television, movies, etc, and nobody has any respect for the power that they have. So what are you to do? Agreed, if responsible people have guns, there should be no problems. But what of the ones who get them and AREN‘T responsible? What can you logically DO except get rid of/make it harder to own guns? Nobody seems to be able to answer this question. It may not be fair to punish everyone for a select few, but what else can be done?

Cycophant

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2003, 16:34:00 »
Well, I have my doubts that everyone in Switzerland is completely mature and intelligent.  True, these are probably the few people who do commit the crimes, but I‘m sure there are just as many that don‘t.

I agree that it‘s far too easy to state there‘s a problem, but not offer a solution.  Here is mine:

Teach responsibility and respect for firearms at an early age.  Encourage youth/adult partnerships that teach this.  Offer competitions, education programs, and give kids a reason to go to them.  

Other options would be to stop the media from glorifying gun-related (or just any) violence, or more harsh sentencing (including more than just incarceration, like community service, labour, etc.) for weapon-related crimes.  Obviously, some of these are less viable than others, but they‘re just thoughts.

I still believe the key is education, particularily from a young age.  I honestly feel that turning firearms into a taboo, and making them impossible to get and keep aren‘t helping the situation.

That‘s just my $.02, anyway.  I welcome comments/concerns :)

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2003, 20:25:00 »
What to do is simple. You can‘t stop someone from commiting a crime the first time but you can make it hard for them to do it again. Up the punishments. Take the 2 billion that we wasted on the gun registry and make a super prison modeled after the military prison out west. They have something like a .3% return rate or whatever (figure may not be correct). That will stop people from getting a slap on the wrist then turning around and doing it again.

I read a great essay. I love guns just as much as the next army loser but i have to admit i found the idea had merrit. It was based on the idea of taking guns away from ALL non goverment people. People would not be allowed to own guns for personal use. All weapons were rounded up and melted down. Punishments for violent crimes were also made much more severe. Getting caught with a weapon would be big trouble. Of course theres some points on how this could be a very negitive thing, such as the goverment having too much power and could get out of check. Also people who hunt for food would be sol. (then again more money could be pumped into food related issues).

I liked the idea myself.  Good way to clean up the world so we can do some serious space research, fly out into the stars and start killing any aliens we come across.
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Offline Infanteer

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2004, 11:23:00 »
Ha, you want an even bigger joke....

 
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Online PikaChe

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2004, 12:19:00 »
Click on the ‘fully reply form‘ and there is an ‘image‘ button that you can use.

Or use

Offline Infanteer

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2004, 12:34:00 »
Isn‘t it up to 2 billion now?
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

logau

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2004, 13:15:00 »
Ref the Gun registry

I have a 9mm pistol and registration was very simple.

I filled out a form when I got it via my dear old daddy‘s estate. Had to take the test to get the Fire Arms Certificate. No problem.

Then I renewed it on the Internet - again - no problem.

What I believe is the problem is the average Joe out there has a morbid fear of government forms - maybe from the annual joy of tax preparation?

Maybe H and R block should be recuited to fill out the form - for a fee of course.

All tongue in cheek - no flames please - but whoever designed this program - to dump $$$ into Computer Database companies - should be fired. No other words for it.

Offline OLD SCHOOL

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2004, 13:27:00 »
Don‘t even get me started on this one. We have been registering guns since the 1930‘s. That wasn‘t good enough for a few squeaky special interest groups that the Gov. promptly greased with my money. They gave the right to police to come into my home and inspect storage and the registration of firearms that are found. Now, as a law abiding sports shooter I find that offensive. Especially when the criminals always have arms and run them across the border frequently. These are usually stolen and readily available. Also, the criminals tend to use them in the violent situations that the special interest groups are so concerned about. Duck hunters, not so much. Unless you have a thing for ducks of course. I think they are tasty. Now, look at the sentences of the gun runners who were caught with 45 weapons near the border...2 years and no firearms licence for 5 years? Something like that. WTF????? I could get that for improper storage or posession of a restricted weapon!! Criminals caught with handguns in the city center...suspended sentence and no firearms licence for 5 years...WTF????? We are truely a ****ed up nation. I believe in safe storage and who wouldn‘t lock ‘em up but the police state action of the CFC...absolutely criminal. I know many a police officer that has told me they have not registered their own yet as the whole thing will fold eventually...WTF??? I have given them enough personal info for my retricted license that they can reach up my *** and tell me what I had for breakfast in Petawawa 12 years ago. Truly a case of Government gone wrong and strapping on the old sandpaper condom and giving it to the public. For $ 1,000,000,000 dollars they take six months to answer your e-mail. Where did the money go? I am mildly curious.

We are a long way from the days of carrying an SMG in a bag on Air Canada eh boys? Where you fellers off to? Just goin‘ to Edmonchuck for a little shootin‘. No sweat, enjoy the trip. Try that today.  :eek:    :cdn:

Offline Infanteer

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2004, 13:28:00 »
Well, considering I live in Vancouver, it isn‘t some country dude with a shotgun I am worried about...its the punk gangster that shoots up a downtown bar (happened twice in the last few months...5 deaths)

My question is what is gun control, with the vast amount of resources being thrown into it, doing to stop these kinds of crimes...nothing, as it affects law-abiding gunowners only.


On a side note to what Old School said, I find it ironic that when to get a search warrant on a criminal, police have to go through a judicial process proving reasonable grounds, but as a registered gun owner, some guy has the right to walk into my house whenever he wants.

Just who are the bad guys these days?
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline Garry

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2004, 13:49:00 »
Old School hit the nail on the head: the registry is a thinly veiled usurption of our basic rights.

I find it difficult to discuss the treachery that has been foisted on us by our own Government. I sincerely hope that the next one will return the concept of personal responsibility and self determination to the people of Canada- and quickly, before the last vestiges of morality and work ethics depart the fix.