Author Topic: Power of attorney - Quebec  (Read 562 times)

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Offline Occam

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Power of attorney - Quebec
« on: July 11, 2019, 21:31:05 »
Looking for some help pointing me in the right direction.

I have a situation where mother and father in-law have power of attorney pointing at each other, but due to recent and ongoing medical situation, we feel that we need to have the court intervene and appoint my spouse guardianship/power of attorney over both.  Social workers at the respective facilities are onboard, but I need to know what area of law in particular this would be in order to do a proper lawyer search to start the ball rolling.

If it helps, I'm using the lawyer directory found on the Barreau du Quebec website at https://www.barreau.qc.ca

Online tomahawk6

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Re: Power of attorney - Quebec
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2019, 21:40:03 »
I would suggest a healthcare  directive instead. Power of attorney might also saddle yourself with their debt and other financial matters. Also I dont think this would require a lawyer.

https://www.lawdepot.ca/law-library/faq/health-care-directive-faq-canada/#.XSfkLO3Pw2w

Offline Occam

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Re: Power of attorney - Quebec
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2019, 21:48:22 »
Neither is competent to act in the other's interest.  My initial thoughts are that she needs to be appointed guardian (probably not the right term) over both, so that bills (some of which are seriously in arrears) can be paid, vehicle can be sold, house can be sold, etc.

I'm no lawyer nor do I play one on TV, but I don't think being appointed guardian over another's affairs can make you personally liable for any of their debt.

Offline DeweyDecimal

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Re: Power of attorney - Quebec
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2019, 22:16:54 »
Looking for some help pointing me in the right direction.

I have a situation where mother and father in-law have power of attorney pointing at each other, but due to recent and ongoing medical situation, we feel that we need to have the court intervene and appoint my spouse guardianship/power of attorney over both.  Social workers at the respective facilities are onboard, but I need to know what area of law in particular this would be in order to do a proper lawyer search to start the ball rolling.

If it helps, I'm using the lawyer directory found on the Barreau du Quebec website at https://www.barreau.qc.ca

As this is in Quebec, the mandate can also be drawn by a notary :

http://www.cnq.org/en/famillies-couples/68-what-is-protective-supervision-.html
http://www.cnq.org/en/find-a-notary.html

The best Quebec specific overview of the process that I found is here :

https://www.curateur.gouv.qc.ca/cura/en/majeur/index.html

Offline Occam

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Re: Power of attorney - Quebec
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2019, 23:01:06 »
I'll try to clarify.  I'm not looking to have a notary or lawyer draw up a mandate.  Those already exist, but the two parents have them pointing at each other, and neither is competent to make decisions for the other.

We need to figure out what area of law in Quebec would handle a case by a family member to supercede the mandates they have in place, and to impose a new mandate (appointed by the court) that gives my wife power over their care and affairs.

Is it simply civil law?  Family law?

Offline FJAG

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Re: Power of attorney - Quebec
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2019, 23:21:46 »
Go see a lawyer.

My practice was in common law not Quebec civil law so things may differ (and besides my French is very rusty)

It sounds to me that what you are saying is that both your father and mother-in-law are having failing mental capacities. If that is the case and you are concerned about acting on their behalf in dealing with financial matters then Health Care Directives are not the right thing. A HCD is used to allow someone else to make medical decisions for someone who is no longer capable of making them himself.

A Powers of Attorney given by an individual to another allows them to make a wide variety of financial or other decisions when the person no longer has that capability. Since both individuals no longer seem to have capacity then the Powers of Attorney are most probably no longer effective.

If there is no valid Power of Attorney (called a Mandate in Quebec) and the individual no longer has the capacity to appoint one then the only way that someone can take over the affairs of a person without capacity is through a court order. Under the common law that is called a Committeeship.

In Manitoba this process is governed by the Mental Health Act. A Judge can appoint both a Committee of Personal Care and/or a Committee of Property.  The former deals with matters relating to the incapable persons health care while the latter relates to finances and other property. The court order will detail what the Committee is authorized to do and from time to time the Committee is required to return to court to account for what they have done in the matter.

In Quebec the process is called Protective Supervision for Vulnerable People.

Here's a web page to get you started:

https://www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/protective-supervision-vulnerable-people

Good luck.

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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Power of attorney - Quebec
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2019, 00:05:31 »
Does your spouse have any siblings?  If so, engage them in the process from day one, to avoid "given hindsight, we would have done X, Y and Z different" and potential future litigation.  Incapacity or death of parents is hard; adding sibling fights (and even potentially sibling lawsuits) makes it worse.

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Offline Occam

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Re: Power of attorney - Quebec
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2019, 00:50:07 »
Go see a lawyer.

My practice was in common law not Quebec civil law so things may differ (and besides my French is very rusty)

It sounds to me that what you are saying is that both your father and mother-in-law are having failing mental capacities. If that is the case and you are concerned about acting on their behalf in dealing with financial matters then Health Care Directives are not the right thing. A HCD is used to allow someone else to make medical decisions for someone who is no longer capable of making them himself.

A Powers of Attorney given by an individual to another allows them to make a wide variety of financial or other decisions when the person no longer has that capability. Since both individuals no longer seem to have capacity then the Powers of Attorney are most probably no longer effective.

Thank you, that is exactly the situation.

Quote
If there is no valid Power of Attorney (called a Mandate in Quebec) and the individual no longer has the capacity to appoint one then the only way that someone can take over the affairs of a person without capacity is through a court order. Under the common law that is called a Committeeship.

I see from the link you posted below that it mentions "curatorship".  In the lawyer directory, I found one that specializes in "RĂ©gime de protection (Ex. : curatelle, tutelle, etc.)", which Google Translates to "Protective regime (Ex .: curatorship, tutorship, etc.)" - which sounds an awful lot like what you're talking about.

Quote
In Quebec the process is called Protective Supervision for Vulnerable People.

Here's a web page to get you started:

https://www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/protective-supervision-vulnerable-people

Good luck.

 :cheers:

Thank you very much for that.  I think the lawyer I found in the directory is the right specialist.

Does your spouse have any siblings?  If so, engage them in the process from day one, to avoid "given hindsight, we would have done X, Y and Z different" and potential future litigation.  Incapacity or death of parents is hard; adding sibling fights (and even potentially sibling lawsuits) makes it worse.

She does, two siblings.  Due to distance and other issues I won't go into, my spouse is the one who will be bearing the brunt of it all.  The more reliable of the two siblings will be arriving tomorrow, and everything my spouse has done/found/spent has been well documented, and she intends to keep it that way.  We have seen, within our own family, spats over estates that have turned poisonous, and have no desire to see this one go the same way.  Thank you for your advice.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 00:54:22 by Occam »