Author Topic: "I want to be Int" Mega-thread  (Read 266627 times)

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Offline Centurian1985

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Re: Intelligence Officer Responsibilities.
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2006, 19:13:54 »
Since Intelligence Officers seem to spend a lot of time talking to themselves - - you're a natural  >:D

Is that implying some form of mental ailment or because no one wants to be their friend?   :o


Offline Zertz

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Re: Intelligence Officer Responsibilities.
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2006, 20:50:23 »
Teehee, natural eh? Sorry if I was a tad post happy in the ol' thread, still would love to get in contact with an Intelligence Officer, Reg or Reserve.

I tried contacting 5 Platoon, 6 Company out of Winnipeg but apparently they're quite busy and unable to check voicemail. Any other suggestions?

*goes back to talking to himself*

Edit: To Clarify - I've gotten good responses from two folks here, which I thank again, but I've got some specific questions as you can understand.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2006, 21:11:06 by Zertz »

Offline simonsimon

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Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2007, 02:14:53 »
Hey there. I'm a university student finishing a degree in economics, and I'm looking to become an intelligence officer. I'm wondering if anybody has more information about the recruitment process, beyond what's already on the website ( http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/v3/engraph/jobs/jobs.aspx?id=82&bhcp=1  ). I remember reading somewhere that you have to be in the army for a couple of years before going into the intelligence stream. Is that right? Does anybody have any experience in this regards? thanks

Offline DannyD

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Re: Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2007, 10:16:28 »
Hey there. I'm a university student finishing a degree in economics, and I'm looking to become an intelligence officer. I'm wondering if anybody has more information about the recruitment process, beyond what's already on the website ( http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/v3/engraph/jobs/jobs.aspx?id=82&bhcp=1  ). I remember reading somewhere that you have to be in the army for a couple of years before going into the intelligence stream. Is that right? Does anybody have any experience in this regards? thanks

I applied for Int O a month and a half ago. The trade is undermanned, so they are indeed accepting DEO applicants. However, in my case, from the time I applied up to my CFAT (one month), the trade had been closed (they told me that while I was getting my medical scheduled). At CFRC Montreal, they told me that there was one vacant post left (out of the only 3 they had to fill), but they already had selected 11 applicants for it. So, to continue with the recruiting process, I would have to wait until they re-opened the trade in the coming months, only to get my name on the long list.

This being said, you can apply, but be warned that the trade is VERY competitive.

What I've decided to do, instead, is to enrol in another trade as an NCM, get military experience, and eventually re-muster in the intelligence trade (I want to start as a NCM, to know the job inside out before applying to become an officer). It will make the learning curve much more manageable, as knowing the details of military ops (especially from the combat arms point of view) is ESSENTIAL to the job. The more you know the military world beforehand, the more efficient you can be on the job. This is one of the reasons why they prefer applicants with previous military experience.

Now, if you're not selected for DEO, but still want to have a shot at the trade, there is another option for you. You can apply to a Int Reserve unit. They are short on personnel, and there are possibilities for working full time (they need people who can be deployed overseas) even though you're not in the Regs. However, in this case, forget about entering as an officer, you'll have to start as Int Op (but you can work your way up once you're in the unit, as they usually prefer to promote their officers from their own ranks).

Hope this helps.

P.S. Oh, by the way, there are also a bunch of topics on this forum about details concerning the application process for Intelligence. And since this trade is all about finding information, I'll let you start practicing and search for them...

Edited to add P.S.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2007, 10:21:25 by DannyD »
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2007, 10:23:28 »
......and there are other topics on the site that may also help answer your questions.

Even as a Reservist, you can find full time work as an INT Op, depending on your location.  The chances of deploying after completing your QL5A Crse are very good, should you so desire.   The chances are fewer as an officer - a numbers game.

Visit the CFRC and ask about oportunities in both the Reg and Res Forces.  If there is a unit nearby, pay them a visit or give them a call. 
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Offline edgar

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Re: Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2007, 18:00:22 »
Is Naval Intelligence with the Nav Res a good route? I understood they integrated, no longer Naval Control of Shipping, I wonder how that is going?
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Offline mtdnavy

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Re: Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2007, 15:50:40 »
Entering DEO as intelligence is very tough to get. I know some very qualified candidates with graduate degrees in relevant studies who have been turned down.

Is Naval Intelligence with the Nav Res a good route? I understood they integrated, no longer Naval Control of Shipping, I wonder how that is going?

It is quickly filling up, but it can be a good route. It is still integrated with NCS (now called Naval Co-operation and Guidance of Shipping (NCAGS)). In addition to your Int training you also take a course in NCAGS so you're qualified in both. The BIOC you take is equivalent to the reg force's navy element standard. If you were to go reg force from navres, you would only need to do CAP and if not going navy, your specific element Int trg. The old rule was you had to have 3 years of class B (or equivalent) time in before transferring to reg force Int but that doesn't seem to apply now. As a reservist, you can still find reg force jobs to fill.

Offline Greymatters

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Re: Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2007, 17:02:09 »
It is the opinion of a small minority that the DEO category was not created so that young, bright and well-educated people from university without security clearances could become Int O's.  It is quite likely it was created so old and suitably experienced military Int O's with security clearances could retire and come back into the same department as civilians (and union members). 

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2007, 17:15:35 »
It is the opinion of a small minority that the DEO category was not created so that young, bright and well-educated people from university without security clearances could become Int O's.  It is quite likely it was created so old and suitably experienced military Int O's with security clearances could retire and come back into the same department as civilians (and union members). 

Interesting comment. 

I must ask you a question.  What makes one with a Degree and no military experience so much better a candidate for DEO Int O, than NCMs with several degrees already doing the job?  What would that person feel, knowing that they knew a lot less about the job, the military, and life in general than their subordinates? 

Sorry.  I guess that was two questions.  I see a lot of that these days, as well as High School kids who know so much more than I think they know.   :-\
« Last Edit: December 20, 2007, 17:51:07 by George Wallace »
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Offline Greymatters

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Re: Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2007, 18:08:53 »
Interesting comment.  I must ask you a question.  What makes one with a Degree and no military experience so much better a candidate for DEO Int O, than NCMs with several degrees already doing the job?  What would that person feel, knowing that they knew a lot less about the job, the military, and life in general than their subordinates?  Sorry.  I guess that was two questions.  I see a lot of that these days, as well as High School kids who know so much more than I think they know.   :-\ 

Personally, I dont think replacing experienced NCMs (degree or not) or Into O's with civilians who have degrees but no military experience is the right thing.  Other minds think differently on the subject. 




Offline George Wallace

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Re: Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2007, 20:10:03 »
That, they do.
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Offline Intelligent Design

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Re: Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2007, 02:01:49 »
For intelligence right now they are also accepting ROTP applications for IntO. That is what I am applied for. There are 11 open spots for the Feb review cycle. The kind folks in the recruiting office told me that I had a pretty good shot at getting into the ROTP program for it at my current civvi university. It seems like it's one of those trades that needs people to fill the positions, along with so many others. Then again it was nothing like the LogO which had 60 ROTP spots this cycle...
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Offline Breacher41

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Re: Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2007, 05:08:31 »
It seems like it's one of those trades that needs people to fill the positions...

The Branch NEVER just needs people to fill the positions EVER.

That goes with the CF in general, but unfortunately useless people still get through and cause havoc on others.

I still think that Int should be a remuster only MOC on both NCM and Officer levels.
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Offline Intelligent Design

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Re: Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2007, 13:38:18 »
Sorry I didn't mean to make it sound like they just needed the bodies for the sake of numbers. I meant that it seems like they may be legitimately short staffed of good people. CSIS recruits their intel officers out of universities, so I think it is logical if the CF does the same for the intel branch, at least for the intel officers.
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Offline Corps of Guides

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Re: Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #39 on: December 29, 2007, 13:50:32 »
I too am up for this round of selections.  Apparently I've been "accepted" to RMC and CivvyU already, so I hope that boots my chances, along with being a Reservist already.

Offline Spectrum

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Re: Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2007, 03:44:58 »
Sorry I didn't mean to make it sound like they just needed the bodies for the sake of numbers. I meant that it seems like they may be legitimately short staffed of good people. CSIS recruits their intel officers out of universities, so I think it is logical if the CF does the same for the intel branch, at least for the intel officers.

Intel makes processors...  ;D

Offline yukon

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Re: Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2007, 04:33:04 »
CSIS recruits their Intel officers out of universities, so I think it is logical if the CF does the same for the Intel branch, at least for the Intel officers.

I'm not sure where you are going with this one? The CF does indeed recruit people from universities IE. DEO/ Civi ROTP applicants. See GW's post above...

I still think that Int should be a re-muster only MOC on both NCM and Officer levels.
+1
« Last Edit: December 30, 2007, 04:38:23 by yukon »

Offline Breacher41

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Re: Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2007, 05:07:14 »
CSIS recruits their intel officers out of universities, so I think it is logical if the CF does the same for the intel branch, at least for the intel officers.

A military intelligence officer must know their element's function almost inside and out. They need to be able to think like the enemy and observe, analyze and critique information that has been gathered, then siphon it into one clean neat end result. In order for you to do that, you need have experience in the setting in one of the trades that you will eventually have to provide information to.

Your experience with one or two or three previous MOCs will only aid you in better decision making, and allow a Int Op or Int O to better understand what everyone else is doing, and what type of information they might possibly need.

CSIS is a whole different animal. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Also what popnfresh said, Intel makes processors, Int is what we use and do to make us look like James Bond.
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Offline scoutfinch

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Re: Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2007, 09:09:25 »
I still think that Int should be a remuster only MOC on both NCM and Officer levels.

I think you are wrong.  Very very wrong.  But we can discuss that offline some time. ;)
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Offline HFXCrow

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Re: Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2007, 10:17:27 »
an INTO without any medals!

No thanks, just another glorfied university educated DEO who can use spell check!

Do at least 6 years in an operational trade/element and then join the INT branch.

Everybody is tired of listening to INTO's with no experience briefing operational teams with not even a tour under there belt.

Just the battlefields of CFB Kingston.

What a joke!

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Offline Intelligent Design

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Re: Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2007, 14:52:50 »
Well unfortunately for me I can't go into an 'operational' trade first because I have a V4 vision category, so they told me unless I wanted to be a LogO I should apply for Intel. I chose it because it is interesting work in my mind, and because my vision stopped me from getting my first choice in careers. Don't most IntOs operate under a senior IntO for one tour anyways for OJT?
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Re: Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #46 on: December 30, 2007, 14:54:45 »
I should apply for Intel.

its INT.....in this country we say INT

Offline Intelligent Design

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Re: Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #47 on: December 30, 2007, 16:45:18 »
Sorry, I guess I'll get used to the official abbreviations soon enough. On the topic of knowing your element though, does anyone know what kinds of differences there would be for an Air Force INT O?
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Offline Greymatters

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Re: Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #48 on: December 31, 2007, 13:48:03 »
an INTO without any medals!

These things happen - it takes time for an Int O to get their first tour, just like any other trade.

No thanks, just another glorfied university educated DEO who can use spell check!

Are you putting all Int O's into one basket here?  I can assure they are not all this way.

Do at least 6 years in an operational trade/element and then join the INT branch.

At least 4, but otherwise I wouldnt disagree...

Everybody is tired of listening to INTO's with no experience briefing operational teams with not even a tour under there belt.

This is true, but not neccesarily the fault of the 'no-tour officer' giving the presentation.  This is the fault of whoever decided to have this inexperienced Int O give the presentation when it should be done by someone who has had at least one tour in or near the region in question.  There are some out there who insist that the person doing the presentation be an officer regardless of the Int O's experience level.   

Offline Greymatters

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Re: Becoming an Intelligence Officer in the Canadian Forces
« Reply #49 on: December 31, 2007, 14:03:37 »
Sorry I didn't mean to make it sound like they just needed the bodies for the sake of numbers. I meant that it seems like they may be legitimately short staffed of good people. CSIS recruits their intel officers out of universities, so I think it is logical if the CF does the same for the intel branch, at least for the intel officers.

The Int trade is not 'short-staffed', this is an incorrect observation, but rather has a sudden demand for support that is bigger than the Int trade can support.  This is what happens when for decades the higher levels think they dont need intelligence support for their missions, or that they can do it themselves better, or when they do get it you need more than just 1 or 2 to do the job properly.

Also, the CF operates in areas where the opposing or threat force is normally a proper military force or a force trained in using military tactics.  If you dont understand military tactics, you cannot effectively understand the actions of your opponent, or predict what they will do next.  Int personnel also need to understand the way that the people they are working for think and act, use same the common language, understand internal porcesses, and finally, know how to interpret orders.  University students have a greater challenge in doing this than those who come in from four years experience from other trades.  Its not something you learn from a two-month familiarization course...