Author Topic: Class A service and AWOL  (Read 8371 times)

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Offline meni0n

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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #50 on: May 15, 2018, 10:04:10 »
First of all, just because I'm currently a reserve sig cpl doesn't diminish my opinion. I may be one now but I spent more than 10 years in the regs and wasn't always a Cpl but thanks for showing up with your prejudice of the reserves and trying to demean other people's opinions by telling them to stay in their lane.

Gof forbid there will be junior ranks that post on this forum and have different opinions than some of the dinausors that have outlived their existence that keep hanging on in the service.

Also if you don't like some our opinions then please contribute something meaningful to the discussion.
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« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 10:09:11 by meni0n »

Offline RomeoJuliet

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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #51 on: May 15, 2018, 10:50:26 »
First of all, just because I'm currently a reserve sig cpl doesn't diminish my opinion. I may be one now but I spent more than 10 years in the regs and wasn't always a Cpl but thanks for showing up with your prejudice of the reserves and trying to demean other people's opinions by telling them to stay in their lane.

Gof forbid there will be junior ranks that post on this forum and have different opinions than some of the dinausors that have outlived their existence that keep hanging on in the service.

Also if you don't like some our opinions then please contribute something meaningful to the discussion.
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Offline Journeyman

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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #52 on: May 15, 2018, 11:39:50 »
..... doesn't diminish my opinion.
Well, I know it's a repetitive expression from me, but "there are opinions, and there are informed  opinions."
You've made it obvious that you don't understand NRD operations, yet you still contribute to driving this to 3-pages of :deadhorse:

I assure you, it has nothing to do with "prejudice of the reserves"; in fact, in a thread about Army Reserve in general, or Signals Reserve in particular, your input may actually provide a useful contribution.  As it is, you're merely repeating "it doesn't work that way in my world, so you're a poor leader and you should change." 

Nonetheless, I'll move along and let you make the most of spamming an essentially Naval discussion.  Enjoy.


ps - For what it's worth, about one-quarter of my military career has been Reserve experience (but not in the Navy, so I stay in my lane -- and I'm not the slightest bit offended by that self-restraint), yet I can't imagine getting worked up about any Reg vs Res squabbles;  there are way too many other things in my life that are irritating that some "anti-Reserve prejudice" is remotely a priority.

Offline meni0n

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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #53 on: May 15, 2018, 12:11:11 »
Thanks for the drive by post. Not sure how you can group opinions of others in the uninformed category just because they're not part of the NRD. Last I checked, they're still part of theCF and have to follow the same rules and regulations as everyone else, be it army reserve or air reserve. The situation that we were discussing seems to be happening at more than one unit and the opinions given are pretty informed considering the demographics. The NRD is not special club that only those who have been part of it can have an informed opinion on.

Opinions given here were by junior ranks at reserve units in the CF based on the how the situation is perceived by us. 

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Offline kratz

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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #54 on: May 15, 2018, 14:08:22 »
Naval Reserve Division (NRD) Duty Watches serve multiple training objectives.
 
Some of these bullet points are common to most NRDs :

-   Inoculate sailors, to the traditions, roles and responsibilities of naval life.
•   perform colours and/or sunset ceremonies, as directed,
•   pipe the ship’s routine and any messages approved by the Officer of the Day (OOD),
•   act as piping party for VIPs crossing the brow,
•   all members must know the procedures found in the “Brow Pack”
•   learn the watch and station bill system, and
•   instill a sense of teamwork, responsibility and teamwork at the lowest levels.

-   Immediate Emergency Reaction Team (IERT) to common emergencies.
Though these may not occur, there are many examples of them happening throughout my career.
•   this task also simulate the emergency preparedness for shipboard life for fire, flood and medical emergencies, and
•   NRD Training Department has occasionally run random emergency drills, in place of Sea Training.
The Duty Watch is expected to close up and  respond as if it was a real scenario. A valued part of training.

-   Access control:
•   100% ID check of everyone entering the facility,
•   signing any guests in/out,
•   maintain access points in use (brow, parking lot, jetty ect…),
•   control the issue / return of keys, and
•   building security: opening, closing and routine rounds during training.

-   Generate small work part tasking pool, as required.

-   Other duties as assigned by the OOD.
•   example: Ring the ship’s bell to keep the Sip’s time


In practice, as others have mentioned, the above is simple routine stuff, and are important items that must be covered off whenever the Ship’s Company is training (day or night). Through sharing best practices, many NRDs follow similar procedures, modifying areas unique to their needs. An experienced OOD will muster the watch and after Colours, will task the Watch as needed, usually by a set rotation. When not required for the Watch, a sailor will be expected to participate in the night’s regular training. All involved: the department, the sailor and OOD will ensure the task rotation minimizes interference with critical training periods. Though the potential exists for conflict to arise, and is sorted out. This too happens in a ship board environment.

At the start of the training year, most Duty Watches are overborne with untrained junior members double banked with trained sailors. The goal is to provide inexperienced pers with enough experience quickly enough to reduce reliance on the handful of experienced sailors at the NRD. When everyone in the Ship’s Company attends training, and performs their Watches as scheduled, the system works very well for NRDs and provides sailors exposure of what to expect when they reach the fleet. On the other hand, when an epidemic of “no attendance” is allowed to encroach, with or without notice, this stains the remaining members of the Ship’s Company, who must pick up the slack.

The most effective solution I witnessed was a multilayered approach to encourage attendance and compliance. Administrative Measures are only one tool. Others have mentioned other tools as well. Combining these methods and applying them consistently is the key to a successful training year with maximum participation, and a full Duty Watch.
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Offline Loachman

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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #55 on: May 15, 2018, 14:23:00 »
Thanks for the drive by post. Not sure how you can group opinions of others in the uninformed category just because they're not part of the NRD.

Among Army people, it's the Arty that I least comprehend. They're useful, and conducting Air OP missions was one of the many pleasures of flying Kiowas, but they are different.

Among the three environmental elements, it's the Navy that I least comprehend. They are far more different than the Arty could ever be.

So, the early posts on the Naval reserve part of this thread made no sense to me. Class A duty people? Trying to discipline them? Huh? Ludicrous, thought I.

Further explanatory put this into much better perspective, and Kratz has just given a complete explanation.

So, yes, it's a lane thing. Different communities operate differently, usually for good and valid reason - even though the "good" and "valid" may not be apparent to those from other communities.

Edited for clarity.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 16:59:42 by Loachman »

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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #56 on: May 15, 2018, 14:23:51 »
So, after all of the above, this is the solution I will provide to the XO/CO:

We will reinforce the responsibility of the Divisional Offr/PO to make their pers aware of upcoming duties; notwithstanding publication in ROs;
We will impose on the divisional system the obligation to ensure conflicts are resolved well before the scheduled duty;
We will ensure that members are reminded in a timely fashion that they have an upcoming duty;
We will restate the important part the member plays in ensuring they attend, arrange a replacement, or otherwise notify the RPO if they cannot attend their scheduled duty.

The responsibility to ensure the duty watch is attended by those identified for it starts with the DivO/Div PO, and ends with the member.
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Offline klatham

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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #57 on: May 15, 2018, 15:57:06 »
This is unrelated to the training merits of duty shifts in a concrete frigate, but I am curious about the section in bold below.

I serve as a reservist in a PRes Sqn of a RegF Regt.  I believe that the "unit" would, in fact, be the Regt and not the Sqn.  Is that correct?  Does this mean that I am always subject to the Code of Service Discipline?

"60. (1) The following persons are subject to the Code of Service Discipline:

c.an officer or non-commissioned member of the reserve force when the officer or non-commissioned member is

i.undergoing drill or training, whether in uniform or not,
ii.in uniform,
iii.on duty,
iv.[Repealed, S.C. 1998, c. 35, s. 19],
v.called out under Part VI in aid of the civil power,
vi.called out on service,
vii.placed on active service,
viii.in or on any vessel, vehicle or aircraft of the Canadian Forces or in or on any defence establishment or work for defence,
ix.serving with any unit or other element of the regular force or the special force, or
x.present, whether in uniform or not, at any drill or training of a unit or other element of the Canadian Forces;

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #58 on: May 15, 2018, 19:39:17 »
having never served in the Nav Res all I'm assuming that the sailor is doing is sitting a chair and checking in ID's and calling up escorts as/when required.

It also seems odd that it's only an issue if you miss your watch but missing a parade night doesn't matter. I get that I OS Bloggins doesn't show up then it ****s up the whole flow of the training night and someone else needs to do OS Bloggins watch and now your down two students for a lesson/mandatory briefing. I also get that if OS Bloggins doesn't get in trouble then OS Smith might think that's it's ok to say "I'm not doing the the duty watch either." However, then it goes back to the question of "Why is there a duty watch in the first place and could everyone's time be better spent?"

There's an old saying "train the way you fight, fight the way you train".   :dunno:

I was posted 'ashore' to a Navy unit for a time;  I did Duty Watch (Roundsmen) in A Block (Stadacona).  Every hour or so, I had to do 'rounds' of the entire building in a pre-determined path using a rounds-clock, and turn a key in it and the rounds had to be completed in not less than 20 minutes.  I thought it was pretty stupid, until a few RCN co-workers explained how rounds on a ship work, and that to them it was just 'normal'.  Not really different than Fire Piquet in the army when at a biv site when the whole gang was co-located, or being in a Sqn Harbour or Troop Hide and having sentries out.   :2c:

... just because they're not part of the NRD. Last I checked, they're still part of theCF and have to follow the same rules and regulations as everyone else, be it army reserve or air reserve... The NRD is not special club that only those who have been part of it can have an informed opinion on.

But here's the thing;  the RCN, Cdn Army and RCAF do not do things the same way.  I've worked for all 3 to one extent or the other and they operate differently.

3 bells/horns in the army - NBC alarm when I was in green DEU.  1 bell/horn...someone might have just broke noise discipline and the Tp WO or Patrol Cmdr is coming to pay them a visit.

3 bells in the Air Force - 'test'.  1 bell - a whole lot of people are dropping what they're doing to perform their '1 bell' duties.  1 bell is the worst thing I can hear where I work.  3 - the best.

Just some things to consider...
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 19:54:44 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #59 on: May 15, 2018, 20:02:52 »
So, after all of the above, this is the solution I will provide to the XO/CO:

We will reinforce the responsibility of the Divisional Offr/PO to make their pers aware of upcoming duties; notwithstanding publication in ROs;
We will impose on the divisional system the obligation to ensure conflicts are resolved well before the scheduled duty;
We will ensure that members are reminded in a timely fashion that they have an upcoming duty;
We will restate the important part the member plays in ensuring they attend, arrange a replacement, or otherwise notify the RPO if they cannot attend their scheduled duty.

The responsibility to ensure the duty watch is attended by those identified for it starts with the DivO/Div PO, and ends with the member.

Quick question if I may;  do all mbr's get Initial PDRs?  If the requirement was captured in that doc and the member was briefed on and signed, it seems it would be very easy to use the available informal and formal admin tools then to document (Div Notes, etc) shortcomings linked to "critical tasks/expected results" and up the ante when required. 
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 20:25:07 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #60 on: May 15, 2018, 20:03:08 »
EITS is correct: We do things that way for a reason.

And Kratz basically explained that, as on every ship in the fleet, the Duty watch in the Navy is NOT just a security organization. It's primary role is ensuring that all daily routines (the schedule by witch we live our lives on a ship and by witch all activities of the various departments are coordinated - and reserve units ARE ships) and all required ceremonial are carried out properly and at the appropriate time. The duty watch also acts as the Captain's representative and point of contact to keep the command team praised of any unusual situation and the execution of various function.

Remember: Ship's are not lodger units with single focus, as an Infantry battalion, or tank squadron, etc. might be on a base. We are a self-contained mini-base, and multiple trades and sub-groups need their activities using the common equipment coordinated. That's part of the duty watches function. For instance, the duty watch usually coordinates the use of unit's vehicles and boats (yes, NRD's have boats available to them), an item Kratz forgot to mention.
 

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #61 on: May 15, 2018, 20:07:29 »
This is unrelated to the training merits of duty shifts in a concrete frigate, but I am curious about the section in bold below.

I serve as a reservist in a PRes Sqn of a RegF Regt.  I believe that the "unit" would, in fact, be the Regt and not the Sqn.  Is that correct?  Does this mean that I am always subject to the Code of Service Discipline?

I think that would be determined by what UIC you belong to. 
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Offline klatham

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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #62 on: May 16, 2018, 09:11:38 »
I think that would be determined by what UIC you belong to.

It is an interesting situation.  My MPRR shows my UIC as that of the RegF Regt, but my pay docs, presumably because the pay systems are different, shows the old UIC of a unit that doesn't exist anymore.  So, technically I guess that means we are subject to the Code of Service Discipline 24/7?

Thanks!

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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #63 on: May 16, 2018, 09:48:47 »
It is an interesting situation.  My MPRR shows my UIC as that of the RegF Regt, but my pay docs, presumably because the pay systems are different, shows the old UIC of a unit that doesn't exist anymore.  So, technically I guess that means we are subject to the Code of Service Discipline 24/7?

In short, no.  Your Class of Service determines if you are subject to the CSD.  As a Class A Reservist posted to a Reg F UIC you are subject only during those times when you are deemed on duty (i.e. signed in, or physically at the unit). As a Class B Reservist, you are deemed on duty during scheduled working hours only.  Once "dismissed" (e.g. your work day ends as scheduled or you are no longer required to be at your place of duty), you are not on duty for CSD purposes.  As a Class C Reservist you are deemed to be equivalent to Reg F for CSD purposes.
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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #64 on: May 16, 2018, 12:43:36 »
According to the AJAG recently, anyone on CL B with a Reg Force unit is subj 24/7, another thing I learned on UDI/CL trg.  I thought CL B was Cl B but, if you're CL B at your home unit or any Res unit, you're only subj during 'duty periods', not 24/7.

I didn't think a Res unit could have a Reg Force UIC.  Learn something new every day.  So, if you are a Res sub-unit under a Reg Force unit directly, I wonder how they draw the line for this?  Look to the route letter?

Vol 2, Chap 102 Disciplinary Jurisdiction, Art 102.01:

"60. (1) The following persons are subject to the Code of Service Discipline:

c.an officer or non-commissioned member of the reserve force when the officer or non-commissioned member is

i.undergoing drill or training, whether in uniform or not,
ii.in uniform,
iii.on duty,
iv.[Repealed, S.C. 1998, c. 35, s. 19],
v.called out under Part VI in aid of the civil power,
vi.called out on service,
vii.placed on active service,
viii.in or on any vessel, vehicle or aircraft of the Canadian Forces or in or on any defence establishment or work for defence,
ix.serving with any unit or other element of the regular force or the special force, or
x.present, whether in uniform or not, at any drill or training of a unit or other element of the Canadian Forces;
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Offline Ostrozac

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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #65 on: May 16, 2018, 14:11:10 »
I didn't think a Res unit could have a Reg Force UIC.  Learn something new every day.  So, if you are a Res sub-unit under a Reg Force unit directly, I wonder how they draw the line for this?  Look to the route letter?

This has become a bit of a trend lately, Reserve sub-units of Regular units. I can think of three examples off the top of my head: the Army Intelligence Regiment, 21 Electronic Warfare Regiment, and the Military Police Regiments. In some cases, the reserve sub-unit has retained a separate UIC, but UIC doesn't necessarily equal Unit status -- there are geographically dispersed regular force units with multiple UICs, one for each geographic location. In all cases, the unit has a single CFOO that states that it is embodied in the Regular Force.

As to what it means for Code of Service Discipline purposes? We'll probably have to wait for a court martial to test the waters.

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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #66 on: May 16, 2018, 14:34:25 »
UIC is a deprecated term.  Strictly speaking, within HRMS, there are DeptIDs; DeptIDs can be subordinate to each other.

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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #67 on: May 16, 2018, 14:44:47 »
In short, no.  Your Class of Service determines if you are subject to the CSD.  As a Class A Reservist posted to a Reg F UIC you are subject only during those times when you are deemed on duty (i.e. signed in, or physically at the unit). As a Class B Reservist, you are deemed on duty during scheduled working hours only.  Once "dismissed" (e.g. your work day ends as scheduled or you are no longer required to be at your place of duty), you are not on duty for CSD purposes.  As a Class C Reservist you are deemed to be equivalent to Reg F for CSD purposes.

It's not the Class of Service that dictates the status but the provisions of NDA 60(1) and, as Eye in the Sky points out, para (IX) specifies you are subject when "serving with any unit or other element of the regular force ...".

I'm starting to wander a bit out of my lane because of how long I've been retired but, in my mind, if you are posted to (on the UIC of) a regular force unit, you would be subject to the CSD 24/7 regardless of the Class of Service you are on.

It strikes me that NDA 60(1) is starting to fall behind the way we are organizing and using reservists. It was built for something where the reg f and res f were kept segregated except in cases of mobilization or attachments such as Afghanistan. One can always do an interpretation of how the provision "serving with" operates (although it may need a court decision to settle it) but one should try to stay ahead of the curve and write the legislation in the way that you want it to work rather than leave it to serendipity. If we are going to change organizations so that some Class A reserve members are part of reg f units and others in res f units, does it make sense that we treat them differently vis a vis the CSD?

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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #68 on: May 16, 2018, 15:04:50 »
It strikes me that NDA 60(1) is starting to fall behind the way we are organizing and using reservists. It was built for something where the reg f and res f were kept segregated except in cases of mobilization or attachments such as Afghanistan.
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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #69 on: May 16, 2018, 20:49:49 »
It's not the Class of Service that dictates the status but the provisions of NDA 60(1) and, as Eye in the Sky points out, para (IX) specifies you are subject when "serving with any unit or other element of the regular force ...".

I daresay that the application of 60(1) to a Class A Reservist occupying a position in a Reg F UIC (DeptID) leads to an absurd conclusion that a Class A Reservist is subject to the CSD 24/7.  He is only "serving with" said unit while deemed on duty IAW QR&O 9.06(1).  There are limitations on the length/duration of Class A Service found within CF Mil Pers Instr 20-04 (12 consecutive days) which would imply the member is NOT subject to the CSD once those 12 days have been worked.  Lastly, a member of the Reserve Force must consent to serve with the Regular Force IAW QR&O 9.05.  That consent is given when the member signs in for local training as travel to/from the local training location is not deemed to be "on duty" IAW QR&O 9.06 (2).

I'm starting to wander a bit out of my lane because of how long I've been retired but, in my mind, if you are posted to (on the UIC of) a regular force unit, you would be subject to the CSD 24/7 regardless of the Class of Service you are on.

As dapaterson pointed out, Regular Force units (DeptIDs) often have subordinate units which are within the Reserve Force Structure.  1 MP Regt is a good example where it's MP Platoons are either within the Reg F or P Res but can be occupied by members of wither component.

It strikes me that NDA 60(1) is starting to fall behind the way we are organizing and using reservists. It was built for something where the reg f and res f were kept segregated except in cases of mobilization or attachments such as Afghanistan. One can always do an interpretation of how the provision "serving with" operates (although it may need a court decision to settle it) but one should try to stay ahead of the curve and write the legislation in the way that you want it to work rather than leave it to serendipity. If we are going to change organizations so that some Class A reserve members are part of reg f units and others in res f units, does it make sense that we treat them differently vis a vis the CSD?

The definition of "deemed on duty" has bedeviled the senior Reserve leadership for years as it has implications for pay, compensation for injury and illness, access to medical care and pensions, to name but a few.  One only needs to imagine, for one moment, a Class A Reservist member of a Reg F unit who is seen on civvy street at 1330 on Thursday afternoon wearing his FedEx uniform instead of CADPAT and not being in possession of a duly completed CF100 to see the absurdity of this interpretation of NDA 60 (1)ix. 
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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #70 on: May 16, 2018, 21:00:45 »
1 MP Regt is a Reg F unit.  That it has subordinate DeptIDs that are mostly occupied by Res F pers does not change the fact that it is a Reg F unit.  (One cannot have a unit within another unit; units have dets, but dets are part of that larger unit).

As written, the NDA suggests that Cpl Bloggins of the Res F who is a member of a Reg F unit is subject to the CSD 24/7.  It may not be intended, but I am not convinced that any great deal for forethought went into the creation of units like 1 MP Regt or the CAIR or 21 EW or... from the perspective of the legal implications of O&E.
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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #71 on: May 16, 2018, 23:00:35 »
I daresay that the application of 60(1) to a Class A Reservist occupying a position in a Reg F UIC (DeptID) leads to an absurd conclusion that a Class A Reservist is subject to the CSD 24/7.  He is only "serving with" said unit while deemed on duty IAW QR&O 9.06(1).  There are limitations on the length/duration of Class A Service found within CF Mil Pers Instr 20-04 (12 consecutive days) which would imply the member is NOT subject to the CSD once those 12 days have been worked.  Lastly, a member of the Reserve Force must consent to serve with the Regular Force IAW QR&O 9.05.  That consent is given when the member signs in for local training as travel to/from the local training location is not deemed to be "on duty" IAW QR&O 9.06 (2).

As dapaterson pointed out, Regular Force units (DeptIDs) often have subordinate units which are within the Reserve Force Structure.  1 MP Regt is a good example where it's MP Platoons are either within the Reg F or P Res but can be occupied by members of wither component.

The definition of "deemed on duty" has bedeviled the senior Reserve leadership for years as it has implications for pay, compensation for injury and illness, access to medical care and pensions, to name but a few.  One only needs to imagine, for one moment, a Class A Reservist member of a Reg F unit who is seen on civvy street at 1330 on Thursday afternoon wearing his FedEx uniform instead of CADPAT and not being in possession of a duly completed CF100 to see the absurdity of this interpretation of NDA 60 (1)ix.

As I said, because of the length of time that I have been retired, I'm straying a bit out of my lane.

What you have to take into account though is that the NDA is the legislation. QR&Os are subordinate regulations and Pers Instrs are even further down the chain. S60(1) will be analyzed and interpreted on it's own words. "Serving with" connotes being a member of a certain military organization. I don't think we'd have any problem in saying that a Class A reservist on strength with the CScotR is "serving with" the CScotR even when he isn't present at drill or training. The fact that the various paras of s60(1) are alternative conditions gives rise to an inference that it covers something more than simply being "present at drill or training" or any of the other conditions.

My point is simply that, at best, s60(1)(IX) is ambiguous but more likely may create a legal liability that we did not intend within some of these new organizations.

With respect to QR&O 9.05, I doubt that reservists that are now engaged in a hybrid unit have ever been asked to give their consent to serve with the reg f. I presume that these were/are organizational changes that happened without input from individual members. (I should note that during my time we had no such organizations and I'm not aware of how they were created or what the internal organization is nor what discussions or considerations were at play during their development)

QR&O 9.06(1) and (2) (or for that matter 9.07, 9.075, or 9.08) are of no moment for this interpretation. They only define what Class A, B and C service is but does not define what "serving with" means IAW NDA s60(1)(IX).

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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #72 on: May 17, 2018, 00:28:45 »
Interesting discussion. I wonder how this all affects the reservists embedded within the various RACF Wings and Sqns around the country. As far as I know, those reservists occupy line serials within a Regular Force unit.

Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #73 on: May 17, 2018, 01:16:55 »
. . . I should note that during my time we had no such organizations . . .

Were you not around when "10/90 battalions" were briefly in vogue?
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Re: Class A service and AWOL
« Reply #74 on: May 17, 2018, 07:44:25 »
QR&O 9.06(1) and (2) (or for that matter 9.07, 9.075, or 9.08) are of no moment for this interpretation. They only define what Class A, B and C service is but does not define what "serving with" means IAW NDA s60(1)(IX).

We both know that regulations serve as disambiguations of legislation and polices serve the same purpose in support of regulations.  QR&O Chapter 9 and CF Mil Pers Instr 20-04 exist because of the, now obviously, unintended consequences of broad and unguided interpretations of NDA 60(1).  Nowhere in the NDA have I been able to find a clear definition of "serving with".  NDA 33(2)a uses regulations (QR&O Vol 1 Ch 9), to define Reserve services and the classes thereof and CF Mil Pers Instr 20-04 and the Military Human Resources Polices and Procedures Manual further articulate how that service is to be controlled and administered.  Although it's tempting, it is disingenuous to read NDA 601(1)ix in isolation to reach a defensible conclusion that a Class A Reservist serving with a Reg F unit is, at all times, subject to the CSD.
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